How Do You Get *ACTUAL* Help?

What makes life liveable/worthwhile? those two things are seperate etities. Im not sure i could ever judge soemone elses decisions on either of those, but neither can anyone ever see inside of me to 'test' whether or not my life is liveable. im not sure if anyone is all good.. or all bad (with a few exceptions of extreme examples as chibam gave) and people do change.. go through times of being cranky/self centred maybe to other times where we are quite selfless and active in the wider world (im probably thinking of myself somewhat here...) I do think that we need accurate and constructive feedback on ourselves in life/jobs to continue to grow. i.e. as a teacher i get feedback from parents (sometimes negative doh...) but its up to me to reflect on that, decide if its warranted, and if it is what can i do about it? i think this helps me grow as a teacher. same with having a peer teacher come and observe my teaching or getting feedback from my linemanager on my programing etc. In life i think we get this feed back in other ways... but its harder if people arent honest with us because they're tyring to always save your feelings maybe.. i try to watch for signs in my kids that i'm doing ok by them... are they happy.. healthy... are they polite and caring of other people (at least most of the time...) but putting my own mi into the mix is difficult as well.. im overly self critical and see more negatives than there possibly are...or maybe overinflate their importance.. so i need my therpaist at times to help me work through my thoughts.. to see whats real or justified etc... no idea if this will make any sense... i'm tired and not great at the moment. lj

Thanks for your post, sometimes getting your thoughts out can be very helpful. There are some great supports around as well which I am confident you are aware of.

Hello @chibam has it been helpful to have these discussions?

I agree with you that it is a fine line to walk between asserting oneself too much and possibly harming another person. I see that as a personal challenge in life .. a balancing out of needs. One can only do it according to one's own experience and values, but if we are genuine about that then it is unlikely we will do significant harm as there would be a to and fro between the individuals which "should" help prevent a bad outcome.

I also agree with @Former-Member in that most people are a mix of good and bad. I also think that it is important not to confuse anger with being bad. Excess expression of anger and harmful actions are problematic but it may also be indicative of being in a bad situation, and possibly a signal to move away. Working through this is what life is often about.

It can be a common tendency to use extreme examples to illustrate a point in a debate. We use our opinions and ideas to form directions and plans for how we do want to live. We usually cannot change everything, but there can be satisfaction knowing we have accomplished good things once we have become clearer about our personal values and made steps towards them.

This has certainly been an interesting discussion in various ways.

I think in all that we do we need to be reflexive and play devil's advocate with our own statements and feelings. That can be hard, particularly if you feel like no-one understands you or that you have tried and tried to reach people without success, but I have found that reflexive self analysis can be very useful.

For example. On one hand there is a statement along the lines of "I don't want to hurt X person's feelings and I aim to never do harm to others" and then "I hoped to hear that they died".

If you can relate to these two statements then consider them. On one hand you (generic you) state that you are full of goodness and concern for others, on the other hand you have a malevolent wish - as long as you don't have to be directly involved.

So, is that really doing good?

Is the rationale simply assisting you to avoid stepping up to the plate (in whatever form that may take in your life)?

Sometimes we can convince ourselves that our thought patterns and rationale are well considered but, are they really? That's where a good counsellor can assist.

If all we thought and felt was fine and dandy, we wouldn't be here. Somewhere within us we know there is work to be done and we identify with the struggles others express, and hope, by some glimmer or perhaps even chance phrase or word, to make a difference.

Decades ago I used to battle to admit I was wrong when in an argument. Now I find admitting I am wrong - even if that if just agreeing to disagree - is quite freeing. Suddenly I don't have to be perfect or even aim for perfection. I do the best I can but I will get some things 'wrong'. And that's ok. Sometimes when we have mental health issues we try and aim for some sort of perfect state and yet there isn't such a beast. Only in the movies.

Hi all,
I have been a regular reader and I just wanted to post because I thought Chibam raised some points close to my heart that I think often aren’t considered publicly.

Firstly, I am really sorry to read that you haven’t had a very helpful relationship with your previous therapist Chibam. The experience with mental health professionals can vary so greatly – it would be nice if this was widely acknowledged that they can be as helpful (or unhelpful) as gps and any other specialists.

Feeling suicidal is a lot more common than most people think – and simply knowing that others feel like this too – and can overcome can be comforting. The thing is that people often don’t talk about suicide and there can be a lot of stigma from family and friends. And even health professionals. And it is so important that when you are vulnerable and reach out that you get a helpful response from others…

When you are overwhelmed and in a place where you are thinking about suicide, the last thing you want is to hear that having these thoughts is bad and you shouldn’t think that way, or that you are selfish or attention seeking…

It completely disempowers you because someone is telling you how you should think and they are being judgemental instead of acknowledging your situation that is often filled with distress and pain. I recognise and respect Suzanne’s point about not normalising suicide – this is very important, however it is ok for a person to think about suicide. Many people do and in our community it is important that someone can be respected and talk about suicide with others open to listening about why someone is feeling suicidal, instead of jumping straight to fixing or invalidating their experience.

The best family, friends or professional help is often when you feel heard non-judgementally and they can sit with the person. Then whoever it is help support you to find your own answers and other ways to cope when things are tough or to keep yourself safe.

I agree that there has been a prior tendency to simplify the issue of suicide, and people can put a Pollyanna view on life. Research and suicide prevention is improving as now people with lived experience are integral. I have watched the Lessons for Life video and hearing from the brave people who have been there, (not academics like many campaigns) has such a bigger impact knowing that anyone can be affected and can recover…and they aren’t blasé and say that they will never feel this way again, more that there is hope and they know they can get through it.

Cheers

MarsBar

@chibam - this is an excellent question. Advice is alwasy 'fraught' because it is only one person's opinion, but some help in HOW to make decisions, where to access advice and when to step back from all the myriad problems and have a bit of down time (on purpose not just dropping the ball). Seems sadly lacking in our society. and a hole in the Mental Health professions.

Hi everyone,

It's become aparrent that I can't keep up with the rate that new posts are being made in this thread and give decent replies to everyone. This is subject matter that is very draining to discuss. It also seems that I've been getting close to breaching the bounds of what is considdered acceptable with subject matter that has drifted far away from the original subject matter of the post. I don't wish to offend or upset anyone with what I have to say, but having to censor myself further ties my hands in regard to being able to respond properly to these posts.

I just wanted to let you all know that I'm not ignoring you or anything, there's just too much here already for me to be able to keep addressing it ad nauseum.

Actually, I smiled in a way because you've made progress here. You've essentially opted out of a situation that is creating too many demands for you. That was something you couldn't readily do before.

As for taking blame on talking about certain topics, I offered two organisations that deal with those discussions. Purpose built so to speak. I did take note of the problem in having done that and I felt a little guilty, however, the conversation went back to what were core issues and no harm caused per se. No-one has to address each and every comment others make on any forum and no forum is without some form of rules or censorship bounds. We tend to feel uncomfortable if we feel 'corrected' because it reminds us of being children perhaps. No foul though.

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@RabbitsMum wrote:

Actually, I smiled in a way because you've made progress here. You've essentially opted out of a situation that is creating too many demands for you. That was something you couldn't readily do before.

Hi @RabbitsMum and @chibam,

I thought exacly the same thing as you, RubbitsMum!'

Good for you, Chibam.

Thanks for being so open in this thread @chibam. It's a great read with a really interesting mix of people and views. There's no pressure to keep responding. Starting a thread is a little like hosting a party. You invite people around and hope they chat amongst themselves. Based on this thread you're a great host 🙂