Not doing so well

Am glad to hear you are doing the things you enjoy.. I also took trouble to the beach this morning before my appointments..@Faith-and-Hope I am going to lunch tomorrow with my mum prior to my birthday and we have a family dinner this Sunday..

Am hoping you and WH will be okay, he is a good man and he does love you and kids @Faith-and-Hope

I have EP session tomorrow after lunch and Friday dietitian appointment and donating blood.

Has WH had a full medical to rule out any underlying causes - I know having a personality disorder is a serious medical condition but it is treatable.

The difficult part, and I know you know, is that WH does not see it as a problem. Underneath he may see a problem (hopeful here) but the way he behaves is perhaps how he shows his love through care and control. I know you have said it as not all been bad and he as learnt a lot about nutrition. The way a personality disorder has two main features I may be wrong but the person usually swings from have OCD traits to more chaotic behaviours.

I am going to to be here for you as much as I can - that is what I am going to do for you. I just hope you find the right treatment and care for WH. The specialist I see in Brisbane her speciality is ED, she was the Director of one of the major hospitals here. I am very lucky she takes care of me and I have been under her care for almost 19 years.

In the midst of this I truly think you need to take care of you too, you will be okay. Perhaps a girls holiday away mite help you @Faith-and-Hope

He has been under the care of a doctor @oceangirl .... and with his initial weight loss all his blood readings improved so much he was able to come off all the medications he had been on in his very overweight state.

The sort of testing that might show up his e.d. is not standard, so the doctor would have to cite a reason for performing them, and as yet, no physical reason has presented itself. Part of his masking behaviour is to keep his weight at the low end of normal, weighing himself 2 x daily (at least) to be sure of staying at exactly that measure, despite the fact that he is doing weights as well as all the jogging, and ought to have increased his body weight corresponding with muscle gain.

Yes, personality disorders are treatable @oceangirl .... you are right .... but first the person has to recognise that there is a problem, and this particular pd is apparently resistant to treatment. It's not the same as ocd, although ocd may co-exist with it, which is definitely the case with WH.

Yes, it is a form of trying to manage his fears and emotions, and because it is familial, with his family the same way, they are not able to recognise that it is disordered behaviour .... in fact, it is viewed as ideal .... supreme .... faultless ..... and aggressively defended.

I guess one of the things I am struggling with is the fact that I thought the fierce need to control and manipulating behaviour was an extension of the e.d. .... to find that this is an "independent" co-existing issue ,... and there may yet be more .... is a bit overwhelming at the moment.

We will have to wait and see whether he embraces the diagnoses and takes ownership of his treatment. He is not very good at baby steps .... but he's gonna have to learn ......

💜

I am not thinking so much of the ED but perhaps underlying cause that might explain some of his behaviour.I do know they often look for a underlying condition, to rule out other causes. For example changes in personality and values. I guess, I am trying to see what can be done to help him, and that way it will help you too and the family system. I do hear you @Faith-and-Hope I am not sure if I am explaining myself that well. I think his behaviour could be part of the ED "controlling" , my concern is many psychiatrist tend to try to put people in boxes.

I think any diagnoses particularly MI is up for debate because they don't always get it right. The diagnosis is quite subjective. I think more along the lines of underlying depression... just a thought.. and I can't remember off hand the blood tests they do to rule out other things- I do know however they do thryroid, vitamins etc. Sorry I am just trying to help....

I know @oceangirl .... thank you 💜

Bearing in mind that I am not medically trained, I believe anxiety plays a large role here .... that is my observation .... I know he has a tremendous fear of regaining the weight, but the background messages he was raised with, by parents who appear to be ocpd (aligns with what the pdoc has said about his family) have sort of "programmed" him for this ..... they are exactly the sort of messages that support the development of an e.d. and they are based in the ocpd personality type. It's not the same as ocd ... it's not behavioural so much as the mental fubpncyptioning, and ocd-type behaviours create a release for the pent-up anxiety.

The ocpd appears to be the driver for the e.d. ... which in itself is driving the control aspects of the ocpd .... in a negative cycle. The ocpd is what is making him aggressive and defensive as he works to protect the e.d. from being detected ..... and he has been so clever at it ..... he is a very intelligent man, but his intelligence has been hijacked into this negative way of living, that he thinks is oh so positive.

It is clear to everyone who knows about the problem that he needs psychiatric intervention.

Because of privacy laws, I can't just turn up to appointments by myself and talk about him with the relevant doctors, and because his whole world is based in these disorders, I can't turn up to the appointments with him and expose it all, because that is an unsupported intervention that will need a lot of immediate attention and a professional to break it to him.

He is in such complete denial, he has no way of accepting this revelation other than to lash out against it .... and if it does get through, he has no coping skills to deal with it, so will need immediate, intensive support .... without being able to prepare medical staff for that outcome ahead of time, it's dangerous to try to approach it.

There will be a way forward. I just can't see what it is at the moment .... and WH has gone quiet, worried about his son, and trying really, really hard not to be controlling towards everyone else, which of course drives his anxiety back into his e.d. behaviours.

It will sort out, I am sure of that ... somehow .... but I don't know who he is going to be at the end if it all. I imagine there are CBT and DBT classes ahead of him. He needs to learn about how to manage his emotions and behaviour.

Tgere may be some sort of vitamin or mineral deficiency in there as well. For S2 it was Vit D .... but for WH it might also be seratonin or other such hormones ......

I am fearful of the counselling sessions because I can't speak out, as mentioned above, but I am also welcoming of them because the more questions that are asked, the more WH's conversation will reveal his mindset, and bring on more investigation towards diagnosis and treatment.

I hope none of this is too heavy for you to hear. It helps me to be able to say what it is to people who understand, and who can walk along with me through it all. At this end if it is all the mess, but as we walk forward I will be able to share the break-throughs and progress, like I am with S2's situation ....

Thanks for listening .... 💐💜

I am here walking with you too and you do know you have a lot of support here @Faith-and-Hope. Is there anyone you can talk to about your fears and concerns about WH and the family system. You will get through this and believe you can do this. I think some of it will have to come down to WH and his expectations are probably very high I would image. I know there is a book that might help you undersatnd (Pia Mellody Facing Codepedency). I would post it to you but I don't have your address.

Your spot on, a lot has to be with WH's upbringing, but his parents where probably doing the best job they could at the time. I have a feeling WH is quite soft underneath and a lot of his behaviour is driven by fear/anxiety. I still feel you need some support too. I wish I could do more to help you. Its tough but nothing you can't overcome. I am worried about you and you seem even anxious and stressed yourself. Mine you I am the same atm.

I have a specialist appointment tomorrow at 9am it was only just booked in by my specialist. It is going to be a early start for me tomorrow- it is probably a good thing. Chin up...

Thank you @oceangirl .... I love that I can come here and be listened to warmly by caring forum friends. I think, from what you have said before, that maybe you understand more than most, and yes, I think WH's parents were only doing the best they knew how, and were carrying forward a lot of childhood pain themselves.

My anxiety and stress is what is called "situational" .... it's based on the circumstances I am faced with.

Because WH is in a state of having no insight into his own behaviour, it's a bit like dealing with a child, or someone with dementia .... and while what he is doing is harmful to himself, some of his behaviours are harmful to us as well, like his aggressive controlling, and he has had rages and delusional thinking at times .... this as lessened the more we have set our boundaries and then tried to keep him as calm as we can. This can be seen as enabling the illness, but while we can't access help for him, it's the best we can do.

We had settled with that pretty much, and that helped to reduce the anxiety over it, apart from behavioural flare-ups .... but my S2 has fallen down under the pressure of our situation, and it may have triggered mi in him .... he has been diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder, and told that he has a perfectionist personality type, and ocd traits.

WH is now panicking over him and trying to fix him, at first excessively micro-managing him, but the pdoc pulled him up on that - thank God .... that was a few weeks ago now, and we really couldn't have coped with that much longer.

The problem for me now is that the pdoc has recommended family counselling, but with WH in denial, I have been told this is psychologically dangerous for us .... so I am being asked to do by one medical professional to do what another one has said I mustn't do ..... and the irony in that is that the first specialist (son's pdoc) probably wouldn't want us attending family counselling if he understood our predicament, but privacy laws prevent me from telling him.

That is clearly an anxiety-producing situation.

My counsellor has supported my idea that I attend, but then just keep answering that I don't believe we have enough family support in place to discuss the issues being raised ... which is going to upset the family counsellor, but it looks like it's the only way forward at the moment.