Difficulty telling people how I really feel.

Hi @Sahara .....

I have had a thread going on C-forum since I first arrived here. On LE-forum it has been more about answering questions about what is happening in my world, or me having a whinge when the going is tough-er, so it's not central to one place here.

Part of that, I think, is the thought that has emerged that we are perhaps not dealing with an e.d. alone .... that it was either triggered by, or has triggered, something else at a personality disorder level .... so that is going to be a question of which came fopirst, the chicken or the egg, especially as there was a different form of e.d. in place way before this version emerged .... perhaps from early childhood.

This is a restrictive version, the one we have now, but WH had a life-pattern of bi-inge then restrict which saw him in one of those two states, visibly in phototgraphs, as he grew up .... Just far less extreme versions to what we have ended up with in adulthood, and most particularly at this later stage of his life.

The effects of all of us remaining in this pressure-cooker situation has impacted on the kids, and one of them in particular ended up in therapy earlier this year. Where we couldn't find intervention up until this point, intervention has had an inroad through our son now becoming emotionally unwell. My husband's level of interpersonal control had intensified over this one, owing to him being a son (only one left at home) which in his thinking gave him great jurisdiction over controlling him and his life outcomes.

As a part of his treatment, it has been recommended that he recommence uni studies in Melb rather than here, and move out of home in doing so (WH's first impulse was for all of us to move the Melb - us and the ones who are not married), which we will still do, sort of. We have a family property there, which we have been using during long weekends and school holidays up until now. WH brings huge volumes of specific foods back from there each time in support of his diet and exercise regimen, so of course he is thrilled with the idea of relocating there ..... something he has wanted to do for some time anyway .... an now he has the vehicle to do that. Even in Melb, S2 needs to move out of home and create that distance from us to be able to find his own autonomy.

D1 is still in trouble though, and presenting with her own health issues as a consequence. Part of what is driving that is the fact that she wanted to take her turn having a gap year working for us, as a couple of her other siblings have, but she is not coping with WH as her boss .... which has effectively placed her in the same predicament as her brother, only WH considers her far more fragile, and as a result of the attention being given to her by our doctor and physiotherapist, he has become powerless to elicit much control over her. I think, in part, that is a deliberate p-a move on her part, but I can't argue that .... it is also a shield.

WH and I have just started couples counselling on strong recommendation from S2's counsellor. This of course is the biggest minefield of them all, but hopefully it will also lead to the long-sought-after intervention.

How's that for a mess ?

Hi @Faith-and-Hope,

my impression from reading your post just now, is that your children are all adults and yet they continue to be tightly wound up in family issues- especially those to do with your husband's eating disorder (and his control issues)? Please correct me if I have the wrong 'take' on this?

Only one son still lives at home and he is seeing a counsellor? It does seem to me like he reports back to you all about these counselling sessions he is having? Is that correct?

If so... it does seem a tad unusual to me... wouldn't your son want his privacy?

But you say it has "pushed" your husband into counselling with you- because your son's therapist has reccomended it? If so, I don't really understand how your husband has no choice but to go into counselling... I would think that because he is an adult, then he could easily just refuse to go!

However, he is going - so this must be a huge relief to you.

I actually can relate to all this, because as a young adult, I was way too wound up in my parents issues... to my own detriment!

Perhaps it is in the best interests of your son to move out of home and gain his independence and also in your daughter's best interest not to work for her Dad. I think this would be the case in very many families... certainly it would have applied in my own family of origin. Children do have to separate from their parents at some point. Of couse, I am no expect on children - not having them myself.

My feeling is that it isn't exactly a 'mess' @Faith-and-Hope! Maybe more of a muddle. I guess I am not in favor of describing out lives as 'messes'..... I think you do yourself an injustice to do so. It seems like there are things going on, but that everyone is still functioning.

What do you do to get some 'time out'? I hope you are able to have some space for yourself in all this!

@Faith-and-Hope,

I hope you wont be offended....I would like to say that everyone is on their own, whether or not they have an excellent counsellor... or friends, or other supports in place, or whatever. I mean, it's still your own life and you are ultimately the one who has to make the decisions.

When I was very ill with depression, I had a psychiatrist, a G.P, a counsellor and plenty of tablets, but I was on my own, too. These people were only 'resources' that I could make use of in any way I chose, they were not responsible for me once I left their office!

Certainly, if they had me admitted to a psych hospital as an involuntary patient, then I suppose they would then be responsible for me. But that didn't happen.

@Faith-and-Hope, make use of counselling as much as you are able- but don't ever give away your own power in this situation. Everyone you speak about in your family is an adult and they have the power to make their own decisions too. In fact, counselling, as far as I know (and I may not be the one to judge) is about empowering people.

Yes, you will be able to convince a counsellor that you are very unhappy and at your wits end- then they will ask you what you would like to do about it? Keep in mind that you are very unlikely to change anyone else- that is up to them.

Sorry, @Faith-and-Hope, I can only go on what I have learnt through my own ordeal. I hope this helps you in some way... but if it doesn't, then feel free to discard it! I wish you much peace.

Good morning @Sahara .....

I am not offended at all ....you are right.

That was my last sentence above, that I am still in this in my own ..... and each of us will be feeling that we are in this on our own, because each of us is having a different experience within this situation. As much as we can feel for each other, it's no the same thing.

Be amuse we have majorly delusional thinking present at times, and behaviours that are dysfunctional and damaging to the person, and major mods swings that the person seems unaware of, we are not coming to couples counselling simply as a disagreeing couple. I

have heard of other people my age battling to care for aging parents who are experiencing random episodes of dementia that make them a danger to themselves and others, but not all the time .... and interviews with doctors when they are in possession of their faculties can make it appear that they are being bullied by their adult children into giving up their independence needlessly, or there may be concern that the adult children are trying to get their hands on their parents property or financial resources ahead of an appropriate time .....

It feels like we are in this position, because we need a diagnosis for WH to receive treat mental that can stabilise his thinking, his moods and his behaviours. If my assessment is anywhere near correct, I believe his life is in danger .... and I can't sit back and pretend it's not .... I feel that I have to do everything I can to reveal the state he is in, and even if I am wrong about whether he is in danger or not, he is certainly in danger of losing what is left of his relationships with us, but clueless that that is what is happening as well.

You can lead a horse to water, it you can't make it drink, of course. All sources of advice say that early intervention is the key to the greatest chance of recovery for people with eating disorders .... and WH is eight years behind early intervention now. I haven't been able to control that without doing a walk-out and leaving him on his own, but the nature of his controlling state of mind is also extremely vindictive and punitive. In a delusional state, I can't, even at this stage, be sure of just how destructive that might be .... and that is psychologically dangerous to all of us.

My objective at the moment is to get the truth of his state of mind revealed, because it is not sustainable as a secret, but revealing it openly in front of him after what happened last time I did that, is not a safe option. I have been advised to that effect, by counsellors who can listen and sympathise, but not diagnose. Diagnosis has to be made over him directly. What happens after that is beyond my current experience, but there will be advice given and consequences explained. Some of the decisions involved will be mine, but not all of them.

If WH's life is in danger, and that is made clear to him, which will involve evidence-based testing that there is no way he will agree to the way things stand at the moment, I believe he will become compliant. It's the fact that I can't reach him with that has us at the couples counsellor.

He believes we are there to align our parenting over our son, in pareticular, but our kids in general. My perspective is that our parenting is done, that we are in an adult share-house situation that has become dysfunctional, with emotional entrapment involved, and we are attending counselling because WH is unwell with a serious mi that he doesn't know he has, which is affecting us all. I can't manage this situation on my own, and by law I have ended up trying to do so for far too long already.

Hello @Sahara

Hope you are coping with father's illness. There is no easy road there, but I like that you can respect his wish to go out in a manly manner. My brother was a little similar in zooming off across the world to some cancer conference rather than laying back and accepting he was sick in a conventional way.

We have not "chatted" for a while. I just stumbled on this thread and felt strong resonance with your opening experiences about motivations for working in groups, leadership issues and clashes. I enjoyed reading @Owlunar @Former-Member @Former-Member responses.

I hope your part time job and Phd candidature are burbling along reasonably.

Somehow a lot of the discussion here reflects conversations I would have liked but have been too busy doing music and mumming to join in on.

My son is on some missions at the moment and I have just have to hold steady and be around but respect his privacy and integrity.He is also being mature and affectionate. However as I have done this alone for so long (10+ years) it really helps me to have the forum to connect with other adults and be a whole person and not just a parent.

@Faith-and-Hope Thinking of you and your family.

I really liked @Sahara point about the difference between a mess and a muddle. Its not splitting hairs when it comes to human relationships which are endlessly complex. It adds a level of meaning and dignity and hope. The main theme being the ultimate interdependent nature of human life .. in families and other social groups.

Thanks for giving me hope just by being who you are.

Hi @Faith-and-Hope

I really don't know what to day - I guess I will muddle through with a reply as you seem to be trying to be rational with a situation that is far from rational and you get the rough end of the stick - esp now that S2 and D3 are caught up in this irrational and dangerous health problem with WH

Only you know the depths of all of this and so much more of an issue with your adult children involved and it seems strange to me that in WA it's not possible for something I think is called an intervention for the safety of WH and your kids

What do your other children say about this? I think it's possible that S2 and D3 have a similar genetic disposition with WH which makes it harder

This must be so hard for you - caught between a rock and a worse than hard place with WH feeling so superior to you it all has to be your fault - you can see this - and now - is this family counselling or couples counselling?

I feel as if this is all building up to a head now and I hope something can be done to improve the situation know all the time it will get worse to begin with

Sending my usual package of good things, thoughts - prayers - love

With extra hope today - this has to be so hard for you - and it is so hard to know what to say except as I said - muddle through a reply

Dec

Hi @Faith-and-Hope, @Owlunar, @Appleblossom,

sorry that I have not had a chance to catch up- I keep meaning to write and then I keep getting distracted.

@Appleblossom, I have been distancing myself from my Dad lately, because he is basically doing Ok, he has the energy to go camping with his mates and his doctor is happy with his progress. I find that I really have to psych myself up (funny choice of words!) to go and see him.... then I just go "Nah, I'll leave it for now"... because I find him such a downer.... personality wise.

I still call him on the phone 3 or 4 times per week.... sometimes it is very hard to think of things to say!

@Faith-and-Hope, that must be very hard living in your house-hold.... I doubt I would last a week there... that is just what I am like, I would probably make some excuse and fly interstate for a few weeks... just to get some peace! I am like that though, I am always trying my best to get away from people.... even those I love. Not everyone is the same as me.

I hope your husband gets his diagnosis.

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The Community Group:

Only one woman out of 22 people who started out with the group wants the group to continue! Even that is a surprise. I am leaving the ball firmly in her court... she will have to do all the work and put in all the effort if she wants to make a go of it.

I do believe she will change her mind and get discouraged very quickly.... just going on her past behavior in the group. Right now, I am leaving it up to her to call a time and place to meet with me..... I may be waiting a very long time!

I am treating this as a learning experience. Just to see how I react and how I feel. I will just observe my emotions and let myself explore why I react the way I do.

I know I will feel myself getting frustrated easily.... waiting and wondering what is going on.