Never being in a relationship

@Former-Member I think to me it's the commercialisation of it all... Things become less and less special the more ads try to push it on us as 'the ideal', idk I could angrily rant about advertising for ages. But unfortunately, humans are susceptible to believing things simply because they are hearing it repeated over and over so... when the ads all say 'Have a special family time this xmas!' it starts to feel like that's the only valid way to be on this day. But it's not - even when we're getting the message from all sides that being alone is something to be ashamed of.

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@Former-Member wrote:

I subscribe to the social contract

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I'm interested in hearing your definition of the 'social contract', and why you subscribe to it! No judgement, no wrong answers, I'm just genuinely curious 👀

@Jynx I do agree with the commercialisation of Christmas or any public holiday. Unfortunately they have all been ruined because of advertising.

The 'social contract' is really the unwritten rules of social etiquette that we all abide by. Simple things like: holding the door open for someone when they walking in after you, doing small favours for others, being considerate of others etc.

Narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths typically dont abide by these rules because they dont understand them nor do they see any apparent value in engaging with them unless there is something for them specifically. Yet they never seem to be without a relationship and I think this comes from the fact that they are seen as 'confident' and 'assertive', despite the fact they are stepping over boundaries and dont care about others.

I think this is a much bigger problem than we give it credit for. I know women in my life who are very progressive or forward thinking get sucked into these traps and I think it is so defeating for me to hear it when I am trying to be the best I can. I think there should be no surprise that there is a crisis of confidence in men and that there is a rise in incels. Because I genuinely think there are men who are trying to self improve and get better, but are sometimes misinterpreted for being "boring" or "plain".

I dont think we can overstate this issue. This is a MASSIVE issue that I think a lot of people bury their heads in the sands over.

Do you think over-generalising about people e.g. women, narcissists etc may be part of the issue? That is, that ALL women or ALL narcissists or ALL men etc behave in certain ways? @Former-Member

Sorry, I don't know if I'm making sense.

I just read your post above and I feel there are a lot of people who don't necessarily fit into neat packaged categories (such as myself and probably yourself).

I think that once we start categorising and stereotyping, we set up these frames in our mind that may stop us from seeing someone for who they really are? I do this sometimes, and I have to reflect and stop myself because I know it's not helpful for me.

I hear you mentioned you are a quieter a more reserved person, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

I hear that you expend a lot of your energy doing what you are doing and it's exhausting at times.

I also hear that you are wanting more in terms of a relationship, and that's also okay.

What would you say to someone in your position? @Former-Member

@tyme

I am trying to not generalise, I dont think it is everyone who falls into these categories. What I am trying to say that this issue does exist and it is a much more common issue than we give it credit for.

I am not trying to blame anyone here too, but there is a lot of men (I would say from what I have read through studies that it is around 70%) who have either never been in a relationship or barely get passed the first date. I think this all stems from the fact that we are expected to lead and take the initiative and I just dont think a lot of men can do that. Doesn't mean they are not capable, it just means they cant do it because they dont have the practice. Then it becomes a catch 22 and it is a vicious cycle that cannot be overcome.

I do believe this is an issue that needs to be addressed because it's a big part of why men's overall self esteem and self confidence is at an all time low. There needs to be more inter gender dialogue that is regulated and moderated (that will never happen but it needs to).

I would say the same things to someone in my position and it absolutely sucks. Society isn't going to change so we either just have to keep trucking on and hope to god that we get lucky. Because our chances are next to nothing.

Hearing you @Former-Member Totally makes sense.

Thank you for sharing. I'd be interested to know what you think the inter gender dialogue can look like.

Anyway, I have to go, but I'll see you tomorrow.

Take care mate.

@tyme

It's a good question, it would definitely need to be moderated by a clinician, counsellor etc. It would need to be a space where men and women can articulate the issues they struggle with in regards to dating. It is abundantly clear to me that there are some men who have no clue what women go through and the struggles they have to contend with in regards to toxic men. However, and I am not necessarily drawing a false equivalence here, men have it rough too and there are things women do that are not great either.

Until we get to a point where both sides can talk about this stuff freely, nothing will ever change.

Very interesting @Former-Member . I've been sleeping on what you posted yesterday.

Based on what you have suggested, what would the end goal be of that 'space' where both people are able to freely express their challenges?

Also, can I ask whether on SANE forums, you have been stopped from speaking about your challenges?

I'm asking with absolute curiosity and not judgment by any means.

@tyme

I dont think it would take one session, nor do I think it would be the only solution to this issue. The idea would be to find common ground and to develop a sense of empathy for each other's perspective. Dating is hard and I think the thing that does get swept under the rug a bit is that men do cop it but we cant really talk about or run the risk of being viewed as 'entitled' or a 'sook' or an 'incel'.

There are things I havent been able to talk about here. Partly due to the nature of the forum (as it is online it is hard to ensure that my point would come across). But also I worry that I will be judged as 'entitled' despite the fact the challenges I face are more common than we give it credit for.

I do believe women have it worse than men in the dating scene, however there are some really toxic things that women do on the apps that definitely need to be called out.

Fair enough. I get what you mean. Forums have its own limitations.

So when you say 'a group', do you mean a group in real life where people come together to talk about their challenges?

And then, is the goal to find someone, or is it just to 'let it out' so to speak?

It's an interesting concept.

Anyway, besides that, are you eagerly awaiting the last week of school? Any plans for the break? @Former-Member

@tyme

I would like it to be a group where everyone comes along to discuss their issues in a moderated and safe way.

The purpose of the group is not to date but to explore this issue. I dont think it would be a good idea for others to find someone this way or encourage it either. Obviously you cant stop people meeting up outside the group but the point of the group would be to discuss these issues and find common ground and hopefully make others more empathetic and purposeful in the way that they date.

Nothing on for the break, mostly just trying to survive. Which is essentially what my life is now, I dont live I just survive