Touching the darkness

Oops, this got posted twice.

Hi @Former-Member,

I have been plagued by strange dreams and also nightmares for most of my life.

It might help if you can talk to a psychologist about your dreams. My friend sees a psychologist who is very much into dream interpretation and so she has her dreams analysed and she finds it helpful. I think that some psychologists have a real interest in this area, while others aren't so involved with dream interpretation.

I have often had dreams where I am sleeping so lightly that I do not know whether I am awake or dreaming and I believe the dream to be real.... especially if I am laying in my own bed in the dream. It can get a bit confusing. Then I will wake up and some of my thoughts are continuing on from what I was dreaming, so that life and dream-time become blurred in my mind. Does this sound familiar to you? I believe it is just caused by extremely light sleep.

I also have very violent dreams that are like horror movies, but in those dreams, sometimes I am not even frightened- I am deathly calm, which worries me a bit. In real life, I am a very peace-loving, tree- hugging person who would never want to harm someone else.

Although, I know I am dealing with some unresolved anger, which keeps rearing it's head. I'm just aware of it... I don't really express the anger, unless you count making sarcastic comments at the T.V??? Perhaps unexpressed anger turns into violent dreams?

@Former-Member, maybe you are angry at your abusers? And what is wrong with that, if you were angry? Anger is a natural emotion. We are all very capable of it.

Yikes @Former-Member

Another bad night - I am sorry about that

I can answer some of your queries here

I have had night terrors - I can't remember what I dreamed - which is one way they diagnose night terrors - but I would be waking up - seeming to spin and with a lot of noise - and feeling terrible - and knowing I had dreams or something I have no memory of - and these stopped when I changed the medication I was having - which you are not likely to be having

Another thing about dreams - or falling asleep - it is normal and it happens to everyone even if they don't realise it - but when we fall asleep we often have something - this is hard to explain - but we will think of something or dream of something briefly - and wake up again - and I get this frequently - always have - I have very vivid dreams and it's okay

But this brief pre-sleep stage would be something like you descibe here you have to tell yourself to stop debating and wake up. Often I will be reading and fall asleep but still feel I am reading - and the story goes somewhere else - or it happens when I am watching TV - hey - I know this movie and this doesn't happen.

So - either turn out the light or go to bed - yes - I have to tell myself

But your thoughts about the people who have abused you - I really can't answer that - I think it's natural to want to get back at the people who have hurt you so badly - but someone else might know more

Still - it is good to share - and I encourage that - just because it's hard doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it

But those things your debate about and can't remember - join the "I forget what I was thinking about just then Club" I would love to know what was happening in my head at those moments

Dec

Hi @Sahara and @Decadian

thank you for sharing your own dream experiences.

I am not sure if my therapist is into dream analysis.

I do have recurrent nightmares since my youth, they are connected to trauma that happened back then and I have them at any time when there is change in my life. They are in a real environment, very violent and bloody with people that I love being killed in horrific ways, but I've had them for decades and know when they will occur and I as soon as I wake up I know why I had the dream and it takes the terror away and I realise that it is here and now. I have only been able to react like this after making the connection of why these dreams occur and I guess frequent exposure dampens the impact - @Sahara perhaps that is why you do not react like you would do in the outside world to your violent dreams.

Then I have violent dreams I don't remember, when my partner wakes me because I scream and thrash around. They just leave me with a feeling of terror. I have dreams where I wake up bawling my eyes out and I don't know why. People I love die in my dreams, I know as my partner asked me many years ago "did I die again" when I woke up crying. I know all of these dreams are connected to trauma in my youth when I lost a substantial amount of my family in a very short time frame under horrific circumstances. In real life I had built up thick defense walls, very hard to climb or break through, making relationships difficult as I was just not able to let people in my heart in the fear of not being able to cope with another loss in my life. I have experienced losses since, not horrific, but the worst was my father dying at a very young age, due to a complication in a routine operation, "a complication that was on the long pages of waiver he signed before the operation - chances to get it near to impossible.

@SaharaI do have dreams where I am sleeping lightly (especially during the day, which I am trying to cut out now) that are exactly like you described. I lose the connection between dream and reality and I often ask my partner whether something has really happened. It might be as little as "seeing an advert about a show I would like to watch" - which never happened. I also have discusssion with people in these phases and sometimes figure out when continuing the discussion, that I actually had the first part in a dream. Really weird to explain that at work...

@DecadianI never knew the difference between dreams and night terrors. I am glad your night terrors stopped after changing medication. My dreams have been becoming more frequent and disturbing since or just before I started taking medication, but I think they are more triggered by the flashbacks I am having.

I only sleep in my bed and I don't read or watch TV in bed. But I am sure the debating can only be during the light sleep phases.

I've never remembered dreaming about my abusers. To now (thankfully) I only get very brief flashbacks, a still picture or a little memory and the dread and physical symptoms that come with it last for a while. I had buried the abuse well. It took me a long time to identify myself as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and I believed for a long time that my psychological issues were linked only to my trauma in my youth. Dreaming now at getting back at my abusers is probably healthy. @Sahara and @Decadian like I said above, accepting that I am a survivor and a victim took a long time and is still not engrained in my brain. I still often feel guilty, dirty, ashamed about what happened to me and angry with myself that I did not defend myself. My therapist is working hard on this.

I've been chopping and changing meds for a while and I have also had times where I used my old coping strategies, so I think this combination does not help the overall situation either. I am trying to introduce more routines and better coping strategies and hope it will improve my sleep again. I've been medicated for my sleep before, but I would like to try and avoid that if I can, as it left me lifeless during the day.

Have a good weekend and I hope you both sleep well x

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@Flower wrote:

Hi @Sahara and @Decadian

Hi @Former-Member - losing a number - many - of family members in bloody circumstances would be a very good reason for you to be having these sleep patterns which I think could be some from of sleep disorder - but whatever the tag - you are having them - and this is horrible for you

Then I have violent dreams I don't remember, when my partner wakes me because I scream and thrash around. They just leave me with a feeling of terror. I have dreams where I wake up bawling my eyes out and I don't know why.

These are night terrors - when I have had them I have had feelings of terror and desolation - I understand

In real life I had built up thick defense walls, very hard to climb or break through, making relationships difficult as I was just not able to let people in my heart in the fear of not being able to cope with another loss in my life.

I understand this feeling too Flower - in the last 12 years I have lost 5 members of my family - 3 - including both my parents- were age related - and my uncle to cancer when he was younger than I am now and my cousin to suicide - and I still have a lot of elderly relatives I love - I know unless I leave before them I will have to grieve again and I don't like this idea at all - but that's how it is.

The debating phase you are talking about happens during light sleep - and so does the sense of unreality and not being sure if this has really happened - to make sense of it - if you like to drink coffee make a strong black and lace it with sugar if this is what is likely to wake you up and move away from the dream state. It's only a suggestion to drink coffe - I do but not a lot - if you can take a walk that would help too - I know it's confusing - I have experienced this but not quite as seriously as you - but I can get triggered by such "light-sleep-dreams" - I did last night

@DecadianI never knew the difference between dreams and night terrors. I am glad your night terrors stopped after changing medication. My dreams have been becoming more frequent and disturbing since or just before I started taking medication, but I think they are more triggered by the flashbacks I am having.

The medication I take is for pain - I move to a different formula of the same kind of medication - and the terrors stopped - it has been years now - and also - since I started seeing a therapist about flashbacks and PTSD I realised I haven't had flashbacks for a long time - and the PTSD is less - I hope this happens for you - I can only say that time has improved my life for me a lot.

Circumstances around the life and death of my son contributed to the flashbacks and the PTSD and those flashbacks we have during the day that take seconds but seem to go on for ages are scary and of course they get into our dreams. I just realised that the flashbacks I have had about a car accident I was in hasn't happened lately either - in fact - since my mother died just over two years ago I have had a lot of my repressed memories rise and it was okay to remember them after she died - I am a survivor of childhood physical abuse - and adolescent and young adult psychological abuse - in fact my mother kept on being nasty to me long after I just kept walking away from it - but it has scarred me so I do understand what you are writing about even if the circumstances are different

Dreaming now at getting back at my abusers is probably healthy. @Sahara and @Decadian like I said above, accepting that I am a survivor and a victim took a long time and is still not engrained in my brain. I still often feel guilty, dirty, ashamed about what happened to me and angry with myself that I did not defend myself. My therapist is working hard on this.

Having dreams of turning on your attackers - I have had these dreams too - but as I said - years change things - I think dreams like that show us we are less the victims we were in the past. And I am glad your therapist is working on your feelings of being bad about not defending yourself against your abusers - you did not ask for this - how could you defend yourself? I know this happens - I never did anything to deserve the way my mother treated me - she was a damaged person herself - and she thought she was perfect - but I know differently

Chopping and changing medication is not helpful - unless you find a dose and medication that is helpful - and I do hope you can get routines and strategies to improve your sleep

Thanks for being so open - that's not easy - and I wish you the best

Dec

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@Flower wrote:

The amount of time I just wanted to stop therapy and get off all the meds and try to start a new start, I cannot count anymore.

My therapists tell me it's hard work and it's hard to chop and change meds and have side effects and withdrawal and still they expect me to work even harder, live a healthy lifestyle, live a life, and continue to go to work.

And when I give glimpses of my struggles I sometimes wonder if it's worth it, to fight another day, to live another day. To put up a smile once again, just for everyone else to be happy.

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Hi @Former-Member

It's time to think up a good reply for your therapists because you need to let them know they are giving your double-meanings in their statements and this has to be confusing - and yes - I have had this myself

I was once and for years as confused in my life as many people here - I could always see the problem but it had to wait until the time was right but here we are - now I can tell you that you will be exhausted just putting a smile on your face to keep other people happy

How wonderful it is to be alone and not to have to worry about other people - I can be unhappy if I like and I am used to it and it tends to go away if we accept it

But for you right now - they tell you that it's hard work chopping and changing your medication and having the therapy etc - and then - to get on with the hard work - self-care - be happy - have a life - go to work - be happyhappyhappyhappy

It can't work - it will make it worse to be on a treadmill like this - and so perhaps - I notice your have more than one therapist - tell them that you feel you need to figure out "unhappy" first if it's so had to adjust your medication

Perhaps they find you "difficult" - I think that's b'^^dy wonderful - there have been times when my people have found me to be "difficult" also

I can tell by what you write you are moving forward - you are more explicit - and of course you want to be done with all the medication and therapy - I understand that - I would love not to have to take my medication - but I would be in so much pain without it I dread the thought

Lotsa hugs Flower

Dec

Thank you @Decadian

You always make me feel like you can understand.

How have you been doing? I am so sorry I have not asked you that in such a long time.

Just to clarify I have a trauma counsellor and a psychiatrist and both of them actually do try to help me. But their help can only go "so far". I am realising that hospital can only help to a certain degree and thankfully my partner rather has me at home being miserable and leaving me in peace than visiting me in hospital. I know of specialised intense trauma programs in hospitals, but I don't think they are for complex PTSD.

I have a lot to live for and I think putting on the smile as hard as it is, gives me reason to move on. I don't know how to explain it. I think if everyone was to treat me like a raw egg with an extremly thin shell, I would die in self-pity. And I think some of the shit in my head only I can sort out. They can tell me again and again, but if it doesn't sink in that I was a victim (which is so hard to accept if you have lived the self-reliant perfectionist lifestyle), I will never change. I need to change. I need to love and accept myself as I am and I like this from Brene Brown:

When we deny the story, it defines us.

When we own the story, we can write a brave new ending.

I have understoof part 1 of the statement, I am still trying to work out what part 2 is...