5 Day Online Event! You Are Not Alone - Crisis Advice for Family, Friends & Carers

I find it hard talking things through with our Older Daughter.
Her SH/SAs have a compulsive pattern to them, along with "hearing voices" urging her to harm or worse.

She knows we love her, and has said that's stopped her from going further on numerous occasions, but it's not enough to stop the occasions being.. well, numerous.

She's never really been able to explain the "why", except to say that "It's all too hard, she can't take it anymore". And yeah, we see changes in her pattern of behaviour and mood that are warning signs, but sometimes it all seems to come out of the blue too.

She tries to distract herself with music or craftwork, but if the "voices" get too loud, those things don't help. She rings phone helplines, but she doesn't seem to fit the pattern they're used to dealing with. (Event/series of events... despair... not worth going on... ) So often all they've got left is distraction techniques or telling her to go to the hospital, but the hospital just sends her back home.

Sometimes she phones me (sometimes in the middle of the night) and we "chatter" for ages trying to get her mind onto a different track, but I get to the point where I'm so tired I can't keep it up. Sometimes the "chatter" is successful, but not always. Bad nights, sometimes I keep the phone next to my pillow, but I hate doing that. I have "mini nightmares" where I think I've heard the phone ringing, and I'm wide awake ready to go into crisis mode before I realise it was a dream.

I can't crawl into her brain and untangle the mess of unreality that traps her like a living nightmare. I can encourage her to try to distinguish between what's real/true, and what's not, but I think in the end, she goes by whatever "feels" real, even when it's demonstrably not.

I know for myself, if I find that I'm slipping into irrational reaction, I can often take a breath, and tell myself to take another look at whatever's happening and work out what's really going on, and what I can or can't do about it. But she's resistant to learning such processes.

@Smc would something like the hearing voices network be helpful for your daughter

https://www.unitingprahran.org.au/ourservices/voices-vic/#page_1

hello @Windflowers

hello @Smc , @Former-Member

Hi. I've seen and downloaded the resources from You Are Not Alone. Thank you the info is so helpful. It has been hard to find advise and support over the years. I'm back here to try to connect in and this gem of information was a great way to do that. Thanks.

@Former-Member... I'd be uneasy about her contacting the "hearing voices" network, due to her propensity for "adopting" physical and mental illnesses she sees in other people. I'd be concerned that she might mimic-develop the experiences of others in the group.
Because she adopts bits and pieces from other people (and, we suspect, Dr. Google) her diagnosis wanders all over the DSM. And the original diagnosis that she had when I first joined the forum is very probably inacurate.
Her tendency to take on others' symptoms is a big part of why the hospital and the MHU are reluctant to admit her unless it's really unavoidable. Spending time around others who are "unwell" in any sense = seeds of a "new" malady in her.

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@Smc wrote:

I find it hard talking things through with our Older Daughter.
Her SH/SAs have a compulsive pattern to them, along with "hearing voices" urging her to harm or worse.

She knows we love her, and has said that's stopped her from going further on numerous occasions, but it's not enough to stop the occasions being.. well, numerous.

She's never really been able to explain the "why", except to say that "It's all too hard, she can't take it anymore". And yeah, we see changes in her pattern of behaviour and mood that are warning signs, but sometimes it all seems to come out of the blue too.

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Oh, gosh, I really feel for you, @Smc 😞 How very painful not to even know why this is happening. And with the hospital just sending her back home...it must just seem like an endless trauma. 😞

Hi and welcome to the thread, @Windflowers ...

Am so pleased the You Are Not Alone resource is helpful for you 🙂

Hi all. @Former-Member @NatureLover @Shaz51 @Smc @Windflowers @Former-Member @Appleblossom @Zanylady @Former-Member @Maggie and not sure who else is here.

Firstly let me say that the You Are Not Alone resource looks really good and like it will help many people. I wish there had been something similar available to me and my family when we went through it. Suicide has touched all our lives in varying ways since then too - friends doing it, supporting the close ones of those friends, and more. I sincerely hope the resource will be widely available and easily accessed by all going through it. And brought to the awareness of health professionals working in the field including in acute mental health hospitals.

I've struggled to know where to begin in contributing to this discussion all week and may possibly have missed the discussion anyway. I'm a survivor of an attempt 22 years ago (1998) (which included being in a coma for 10 days) and even now I still struggle with the fall-out from it. Twice just this week I've been in conversations about it, one with a new psychologist and the other with my brother. Both of which left me feeling totally drained and questioning my own recollections as opposed to what was reality for others at the time and since. But having to accept that those around me are more likely to be accurate than I am - which is really hard at times, and also working to find a way of letting their truth and mine co-exist without turmoil.

I also know first-hand what it's like to 'come back' to the world feeling angry about failing on top of guilt and shame. And what it's like in the years afterwards when I reached that same dark point but knew I could never put my child and family through it again and felt trapped in this life.

I was released from hospital with absolutely no follow-up care or therapy and ended up back there several times in the following year, and a couple of times since. I have bipolar 1 not diagnosed at the time (I'm 57 and wasn't diagnosed until 2009) on top of complex and chronic PTSD from that and many other traumatic events in my life.

My brother spent years trying to get hospital records to help understand and accept what happened back then and eventually got 1 letter stating that it was the police and not him that had me scheduled time and again.

But I am doing ok now and don't get that way any more (touch wood). I've always been compliant with prescribed meds but it took years to get the right ones and the right balance of them. For many years before diagnosis of bipolar 1 I was prescribed meds that were actually having an adverse response and it took years to prove it. I also have a 'Wellness Recovery Action Plan" (google it, it's really comprehensive and includes crisis, post-crisis and returning to normal sections) which my immediate family here know about, have read, and know where I keep it. Plus I keep daily charts to monitor what my moods are doing and what meds I take when. It's been a long haul but I've been relatively stable for 2 1/2 years now and am starting to make sense of those periods of my life. And feel I have something to offer in the way of support and understanding to other people, both those with si and those who care for them. I've been around the forums on and off since 2014, the very early days, and it's been really good for me both in finding support and understanding and in the self-worth that comes from supporting others.

There is so much more I could write here.

Anyone wanting to continue the discussion please tag me (@Eth) whether it's here or elsewhere on the forums.

Thanks so much for your valuable input, @eth 🙂 You definitely haven't missed the discussion!

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@eth wrote:

I also know first-hand what it's like to 'come back' to the world feeling angry about failing on top of guilt and shame. And what it's like in the years afterwards when I reached that same dark point but knew I could never put my child and family through it again and felt trapped in this life.

I was released from hospital with absolutely no follow-up care or therapy and ended up back there several times in the following year, and a couple of times since.

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I'm so sorry to hear there wasn't any support for you when you were going through this.

Thanks for mentioning the Wellness Recovery Action Plan - it looks good! And the daily charts to monitor mood and meds also sounds good - I haven't heard of that before.

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@eth wrote:

It's been a long haul but I've been relatively stable for 2 1/2 years now and am starting to make sense of those periods of my life. And feel I have something to offer in the way of support and understanding to other people, both those with si and those who care for them.

This is so valuable @eth 🙂 and I'm glad you are enjoying some stability, after what sounds like a very long and traumatic journey.

@Former-Member

I did not mean to diss the YANA pages. They are clear and to the point and not cloaked in endless euphemisms which made it very hard in the past. It was just I must have been very vulnerable at the time of reading, and my psyche jumped to a dangerous place. I cannot always predict how resilient or vulnerable I will be in any moment. Sometimes I know and put psychological protective measures in place, but often I am caught unawares.

@SmcYour caring journey has been long and serious. Something about your daughter's responses of taking on other's illnesses strikes a chord with me and the many issues around empathy, being sensitive and knowing how to manage vicarious trauma, and distinguishing what is one's own story, creating personal identity, and learning where boundaries lie. I send you both strong prayers of support. I also have phone ringing nightmares and being unsure whether it was true or not. In that, the tech ability to check these days, is useful.

Regarding crises and continual community support and engagement. In some ways we have come a ways from the 70s and the so called "deinstitutionalisation" period, but in some ways the reduction of services to "crises mentalities" and the overuse of police and emergency wards is not appropriate for good long term mental health practices.

I have also seen it in many posts on the forum, this refusal to provide help or service because people are not "sick" enough, yet obviously in need. I believe Continuous Care Centres rather than the "chronic" label could be set up and funded better than the inappropriate ED protocols. That said there are many improvements with understandings of neuroscience and trauma informed care, but the trick seems to be the APPLICATION.

Dear @eth your story about your attempt and the 10 days in coma is YOUR story and you know it better than anyone. I respect it. How to move forward is your miracle and I have learned as I watched you grow in confidence. Memories of past events can become hazy and confusing. I hope you and your brother find a peaceful path through with your discussions about the past. It is probably the type of difficult conversation that needs to happen, and is a sign that you both care about each other.

In some ways I relate strongly to your brother as I spent 15 years in the role of managing crises which included hospitalisations etc. I initiated calls to services once, so mostly it was all out of hands. I also have tried to get documentation, but a lot of it has dissppeared or been redacted. I am finally getting to the stage that official sources may give some sense of certainty, but are not GOD, in that there are errors on files and I have since seen many things put on files that are totally up the creek. So I just have to take it all with a grain of salt and proceed the best I can. But no idea or a chaotic mess of memories is not a good way to navigate the social and emotional worlds. A little clarity is better than nothing.