Weird Moral Dilemma....

@Former-Member,

you are a wise woman! I know exactly what you are saying. I have to look out for myself. If the relationship doesn't improve, I have to seriously consider letting my friend go. It would be a difficult thing to do.

Part of the problem is that I haven't made any new friends for a while. At first, when I moved to this new town, I tried to make friends, but I have had plenty of personal set-backs in the past 12 months and none of the friendships that I initially had hope for have eventuated and grown. I have about 10 new acquaintances, but no new friends. I think I might have tried harder to get to know these people, but when hardships happen in my life, I tend to retreat.

I suppose my sister is really my best friend, but she is run off her feet with her family and her demanding job. I just never see her.

Of course I have my wonderful husband. But sometimes I long for female company.

OTE, I have been so fortunate to have so many lovely people come and go from my life. People who have been fun and kind and thoughtful and true. I did not have the issues that I have with my critical friend with any of these people. Perhaps they did not stick around long enough for me to see their dark sides?

I do hope one day to have a kind-hearted female friend in my life who I can be very open with and who I keep in contact with every week. I feel this would be so rewarding for me. There is a certain loneliness within me at the moment.

I hope that you are Ok and I hope your husband recovers. I read all about your daughter on BB, but I always felt unable to contribute advice because I am not a parent myself. It must be very difficult for you. If you have time to write, then that is great, because writing about things can help relieve stress.

I'll write after the weekend and let you all know how it goes with my friend. xx

@Sahara friendship is certainly easier with those who have achieved similar things to us... If you have kids, I imagine it's easier to be friends with people who also have them, and if you have a certain level of wealth and a husband etc it's easier to be around those who have those things too... It is incredibly painful when you are, for example, poor to be around a person who has a lot of money, and as a result you tend to see that person as 'showing off' their money whenever they, for example, buy a new car, or whatever. It causes emotional pain to see that person buying a new car when you can't afford to go out to lunch, for example. I would usually avoid that person to avoid the pain or get over my personal issues in order to enjoy their company. Your friend, I guess, can't get over the pain you inadvertantly cause her... So you need to protect yourself I guess. If you want friends who are happy for you you need to find those who have what you have and can be happy for you. That's my two cents. One day your friend might 'get over' her resentment or have what you have. You can periodically check in with her, every six months or so, just ask her how she is doing, and see what her attitude seems like. If she still seems resentful put the friendship off for another six months etc. She might never get over it though 😞

Hi @Sahara,

if this is how you feel, then you go with your feelings, I can tell that you are a very intelligent person and I certainly do not feel I am in a position to tell you what you should do.

I used to be like you as well, people would put me down, and enjoy it too, because they could sense, or even smell, that I am sensitive. So they knew that they could hurt me real good. I used to say that maybe I had done something wrong, that maybe I should cope with the situation because there was also a lot of good in these people. And I did at my peril. And it made me unwell all the time.

When I told my therapist he said to me: Dear theaveragejoe, if it is not necessary for these people or friends to be part of your life, I think it is a good idea to avoid them because, sooner than later they may really hurt you and that could trigger you. This may sound harsh but not if you consider that something like a friend that upset you in a substancial way could trigger an episode that will derail you and so that it will take you a while to recover. It is like someone putting a spanne in the works and you have to put the pieces back together. Not worth it.

I have listened to my therapist and today, I have nothing to do with people that upset me, or misunderstand me, or whatever. My life is too precious to be stuffed around. Yes, this is radical and seems even cruel and insensitive but not if it is to stay well and avoid an attack of bipolar or anxiety or whatever.

This is me but I respect you Sahara and certainly it does not mean that I am right. All I know is that my life has been much improved ever since.

And the other thing my therapist said is that because I have a history of being mistreated I can kind of tollerate mistreatment not realising that this will eventually trigger me. Being mistreated can also become addictive and we always seek to recreate, in our life, parts of our history.

I may be insensitive, I may even be ruthless when it comes to my welbeing, but I believe that my therapist is absolutely right.

I know what you mean, in full, SIlenus.

What happened to you, and to me, has left some scars. I too was ridiculed for being too deep, to philosophical. "Why do you worry about that shit? WHo do you think you are?" They use dot tell me. "Because I am different" I wanted to say, but could not.

You are absolutely right, SIlenus, people like us need either other people that suffer with the same or similar disorder, as us, and can therefore understand, or people that at least try. I don't think that we can take any more of that crap nor should we.

We are indeed stronger but any more of that crap could capsize the boat.

Hi @DefiantPanda,

thanks for writing, you have given me something very interesting to think about. I suppose there could be some pain involved, if for example, you were very poor and you hung out with rich people. I don't know.

Personally, I don't think I have experienced this myself.... I grew up reasonably middle-class. Most of the people I knew were just like me. I didn't think about it much. I had one female friend in high school who I would describe as "wealthy" and I liked hanging out with her. Her family owned a lot of stuff and she had a lot of freedom and I found it, well, fascinating. That's all I can remember feeling; fascinated. I can't say if I was overly envious, but I don't think I was. I didn't want to be her, or anything.

As an adult, I was mainly quite poor, although I didn't feel poor. I went to uni, I studied hard and I bought all my clothes at the op-shop. I never owned a car and I ate rice and lentils most nights. One winter I went entirely without heating to save money! I don't remember feeling deprived. I felt kind of free. I guess I thought my poverty was basically a choice. Plus, you don't feel the cold much when you are young.

Later on in life, I earned money but I didn't spend much of it. I just stock-piled it in the bank. So I continued to live a frugal life-style. I remember having one friend who I would describe as 'rich', and again, I was fascinated by her. She wasn't showy or anything like that. But she lived in a grand house and drove a beautiful car. I just thought "wow", so that is what is must be like! Both her and her husband came from wealthy families. The husband was a lawyer and his mates were some very powerful people. Like, wow! It was another world to me, and an intriguing one!

But I think I liked my own simple life and I was mainly very much into art and creativity and to me, that was way more important than having wealth and material things.

Sorry, I am rambling a bit. Back to my critical friend. She has enough money, but she throws it away. Recently, she has a windfall of around 10,000 dollars. Instead of putting it into her mortgage to get ahead, she spent it on a pair of diamond ear-rings that she never wears! Just one example of her rather desperate attempts to be seen by herself (and others) as having money - because she is just so materialistic and her ideals are warped. She probably feels like a more valuable person because she has diamonds!

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@theaveragejoe wrote:

Hi @Sahara,

And the other thing my therapist said is that because I have a history of being mistreated I can kind of tollerate mistreatment not realising that this will eventually trigger me. Being mistreated can also become addictive and we always seek to recreate, in our life, parts of our history.

I may be insensitive, I may even be ruthless when it comes to my welbeing, but I believe that my therapist is absolutely right.

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Hi @theaveragejoe,

I can absolutely relate to this. Because I grew up with a critical mother, being criticised does feel natural to me in some ways, while it also triggers massive amounts of anxiety. So I might be subconsciously attracted to friendships where there is a lot of criticism being thrown around. And, at least on the surface, I appear to tolerate it well.

When I experience anxiety, I can be deathly calm and still. Rather like the reflex that certain prey animals, like rabbits have - they freeze. Pretty much everyone mistakes my deathly calm for indifference. They think very few things effect me and that I am unusually calm and collected. Not so! I am extremely anxious.

Interestingly, my critical friend also grew up with a critical mother! So we have this in common and we actually talk about it sometimes. I have developed into a person who is evasive, and terrified of criticism and she has developed into a critic herself (only she doesn't see it).

Psychology is so fascinating, isn't it?

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@Silenus wrote:
@theaveragejoe ... thank you. Beautifully written. I share your sentiment and a similar life experience here..

My "old" friends... from way back... I'm kinda estranged from them. I don't fit in. They all had kids, I didn't. They all cared about the material world and accumulating wasteful wealth as "security" (whatever the hell that is...), I didn't. They all hated me talking all this intellectual shit, trying to improve, pulling things apart, accepting and challenging as needed. They belittled it. They turned it into jokes to try and shield themselves from the overpowering bipolar-me. I was just laser-beam focussed on something and all excited about it, but that's on a different level when you're bipolar, and a lot of peeps will never understand you, no matter what you do or how you bend over backwards...

Thanks for writing, @Silenus,

You are brave to put your opinions forward among friends who you realise will not understand nor agree with you! I'm not that brave, really. I hardly ever talk about intellectual stuff with any of my friends. I think they would be bored by me.

You know, I am thinking that I have done myself a disservice in making the friends I have made. Virtually none of them are intellectuals (ok, none of them are.) They are intelligent and successful, yes, but that is not the same as being a deep thinker. So it is probably me who is bored by them - they are just blissfully unaware. (how pleasant that would be!)

But your friends should never have belittled you. That is terrible. If they were true friends, then they would listen to you and try to understand. If they didn't understand, then they could say something like "You should write a book. You have so much of value to say." Which is a nice way of saying "Duh.... I don't get it."

@Silenus, @theaveragejoe, @DefiantPanda,

you have all touched on the fact that is is best and most productive to only make friends among people who are very similar to you. I agree. I would love to do this. Believe me, I have tried to find people who are like me. They must be very few and far between.

I am planning to set up my own business teaching art soon. I hope this will lead me to some like-minded people.

If you must stay with this friend because you feel that you can cope, and because she also needs help, then go ahead it is your decision. Just don't get hurt.

The other thing is that if it was my friend I would question myself in terms of asking myself: "Am I helping this friend to become a better person? Is it my job to do this? And if I don't help her with her problem of criticising others will this help her in her relationship with others? IAm I doing her a favour but saying nothing?

These are the kind of questions that would come to my mind. But if you benefit from this friendship and you need it in your life that is your decision to make.

You have knowledge of all of the issues after all and the ultimate decision is yours, just remember not to get hurt because friends can hurt really badly, more than anyone can.

I think that I have said enough on this topic from my perspective. I also like Silenus perspective, very well written. All the others have also offered some interesting comments.

IN the end you are a very samrt person Sahara just try to make the right decision for if this friend finds out that you have bought a beautiful house, have no mortgage and are happy in it all hell may break loose 🙂