Experiences of Grief

@CheerBear I’m not sure it helps, but he’s not so much of an ar$ehole about it now when I’m “unaproachable”. I can’t remember a time that I was ever trusting, except when I met my husband. It was a conscious decision to let him in - I’d never even met him before he asked me out. I think that’s what hurt the most the night he defended my SIL, he broke my trust and I am having a hard time letting that go. He did it so easily, and I don’t want to get close enough to be in a position for him to do it again.

Thankyou so much for your sharing here @CheerBear and @Razzle . I feel so much for what you've both been through. I'm lost for words right now but will respond in more detail when I'm able to, to each of you. I'm really glad you've been able to share with and support each other here. I'll read the article you linked to @CheerBear before I respond, but even just at first hearing the term 'disenfranchised grief' rings so true to me.

I guess I knew that opening up this topic might leave us somewhat raw and I'm really grateful for the way we can be here for each other.

@Exoplanet posted a piece on this topic on the Writing as a form of therapy thread that you might like to read.

Thanks everyone for being so brave. I'm hoping that by truly being heard and safe to share here, we might begin to heal some of our wounds.

@CheerBear @Razzle @Bunniekins @Zoe7 part of why I can't respond individually in detail tonight is that I've been making a list since yesterday of all the different events in my life that I have or have had grief about (not that it's ever really finished and in the past tense in my experience) and it just keeps getting longer. Lost my Dad suddenly, had a stillborn baby, had a 3 month premmie who is legally blind, lost 2 really significant teachers in my life, 4 miscarriages, 2 terminations of pregnancy, the list goes on. Even grief about what life might have been without bipolar. And I think grief for a lost childhood is real for me too - parental abuse, csa, many possible reasons for this.

While reading that article CB a big one came to the surface - I've had many responses, immediate and delayed, to the loss of a particular relationship. And it's a good example of disenfranchised grief - the loss of an abuser. Such a complex topic. I dreamed he was in my bed saying sorry and goodbye after he died. Even tho his death could have helped allay many fears, still living in the same town, it hit me hard. All the woulda, coulda, shoulda thoughts, what could have been if he'd been the man I thought he was when I fell in love. What might not have been if I'd not lost my inner strength long before I even met him from previous abuses. If either of us had been living true to our 'mana' (a maori word I've not found an english alternative for).... Everyone in my life who knows what happened has anger at him on my behalf and I don't think any of them would even begin to understand that there's grief involved for me.

One thing that really p's me off is when someone asks 'Aren't you over that yet?' The truth is that some things change us forever. Grief emotions may get further apart and even less intense, we may learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean we're over it.

I keep editing this post as my list gets longer.

I hear you and see you too @CheerBear . I really get how those 'at least ....' statements can actually invalidate large aspects of what we are dealing with after dv relationships end. Yes, our kids are now safe, Yes, we survived ..... there is just so much more to it than that.

I think it's time for me to sign off and watch some telly to distract myself and get back into the now. Hope you are feeling ok after your generous sharing here - will check in in the morning to see how you're doing. You too @Razzle @Bunniekins .

@eth Being told “aren’t you over that yet” is as bad as being told, (when my son died) “he’s in a better place now”. Be fu€ked he is, the best place for him was here with his family. I could have knocked a few people on their arses with that line.

I also understand the grief of a lost child hood. When I first started my councilling sessions, I was asked “who am I”. After a lot of soul searching the answer was - I have no identity. I “died” after that first group assault, that little 8yo stayed there forever and I became whoever I had to be to survive. My childhood stopped that day and I have no clue who I really am. I never really grieved for her, and I get so sad for her now. Even in councilling I never refer to her as myself, she’s always “that girl”. I’m learning to connect to “her” and to grieve what she (I ) lost. It’s dificult.

That’s a whole other type of grief, it’s not grieving another’s death, it’s grieving your own while you’re still alive - if that makes sense?

It must be difficult to feel like you do about your abuser. You obviously loved him, it must be so hard when others don’t feel about him the way you did/do, it leaves you in a terribly lonely place.

Take care, I hope you sleep peacefully tonight after visiting this topic ❤️❤️

@eth

Grief comes and goes too , like my great gran always gave me "cat cards" for my birthday , even now seeing a cat card brings me a tear

and sunflowers reminds me of my cousin who paseed away at 6

soo many exanples i could share

but i usually cry lots first wuthout talking , my mr shaz used to get upset with that , but now he just gives me a hug without saying a word

Good morning @CheerBear @Razzle @Bunniekins @Shaz51 @Exoplanet @Zoe7 @Owlunar checking to see how you're all travelling today after your sharing yesterday. Hope today has started gently and yesterday hasn't caused too much to trigger re-living all the events we discussed.

@Shaz51 you're so right about how seemingly little things can trigger us to remember someone or something that we have had or still have grief over.

For me one biggie is when football ads come on the telly i.e. all the time for several months of the year. The ex I mentioned was previously a professional footballer and when I was with him the world would have to stop while a match was on. It's a dichotomy for me - I remember the footy parties with all his crowd (maoris in the top end) and at the same time the ways he used all his tackling and injuring 'skills' on me.

Another is whenever I see an infant or toddler with glasses - mine had them since they were a 4lb 12 week old premmie. Sometimes even just seeing a smaller-than-average newborn is enough to take me back to the whole intensive care scene, and bring up a whole lot of 'if only's.

Australia day is the anniversary of my son being still-born and at least that's one that by now I can recognize in advance. I usually boycott the world that day. He would have been 23 this year. Sometimes I light a candle for him, send him a message in my mind, do something consciously to let him go. For years I felt like his spirit was hanging around me all the time. These days he just visits occasionally.

My brother's birthday is also the day our dad died suddenly, fit as a fiddle, at 60. It must be worse for my brother. We had to go to Canada for his memorial and cremation and I lost the plot completely when there. Overcome by grief, I was triggered into mania and also spent 2 days hanging over buckets at both ends, unable to leave the room I was staying in. I was the only one who went into the room where he was in his open casket. And went alone to the cremation. My siblings said I was mad and my sister didn't speak to me for many years afterwards.

Seeing kids playing in the rain in their swimmers evokes the time I was attacked and sexually assaulted at age 9 in Papua New Guinea. My brother and I were walking home from a friend's house in our togs when the man started following us. Because of the way my parents handled it (long story there) I feel it was the end of childhood innocence for me. Other assaults happened between then and 15 and I wonder if they would have if I hadn't been 'sexualized' at such a young age. So I grieve my lost childhood too.

When I get hit by a wave of grief that I didn't see coming, it swells up from deep in my torso, into my heart, through my voicebox before it reaches my eyes. It also affects my breathing. I get overwhelmed and find it very hard to speak. If possible I flee from company so that I can allow it to come through without having to supress it. Not always possible. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I wail. Usually I feel the need to sleep afterwards. Endorphins? Or exhaustion from the intensity of emotions?

I could continue here.

I should add that at this time I'm ok about having a look at all this. I am not being triggered. More like observing and feeling validated, thanks to all of you sharing. I hope it's a bit like that for you all too. If not, if you need support today, sing out. I'll be around this morning.

Hi @eth @Shaz51 @Razzle @CheerBear @Bunniekins

I started to read other people's posts but then thoughts rather than confuse myself I would jump in here and tell my story and read what other people have said later

Okay - I am starting - I have no idea where this will go right now

We adopted our son at 2 weeks and from the beginning he was hard work and my doctor at the time told me that some babies make everyone's life hell for months - my son went on doing this for 16 years and it pretty well broke my life apart because over time everyone - including his adoptive father - my then-h - pull out on both of us - and this has to have been the darkest time in my life

I told my sister at a more recent time that I had left the family for years at a time deliberately and her response was that I did strange things they didn't understand and they drove me away - but I left of my own accord

After all - who declares what is strange and why? I did not need my family's permission to do what I did - my son needed more than a village - even a city was too small - he had come kind of MI - possibly - probably BDP and also some kind of spectrum disorder - it was very difficult to have him diagnosed - he did not cooperate.

He started with vandalism and his crimes became more serious as he grew older and my stress levels were so high I was seriously underweight though I ate a good diet - some of my family members stepped in and would take him on for a short time but he was too much for them - things were said to me that made me believe other people thought I was to blame - something I have refused to believe btw -

And eventually my family of origin abandoned both of us - I had nothing but criticism from friends - and I am sure no one realised how bad things were for him until he committed suicide -

He was 16 then and he would be nearly 50 by now and I get triggered now and again and it can really send me into a tail-spin - and after the last triggering-event I asked myself why it was that so long after he died that I was still battling with the trauma which seems to me to be out of proportion.

After all - the depth and length of my grief is not the measure of how much I loved him - he was important to me and the measure is that I stuck with him until the end regardless of what my family wanted. And what did they want - I think it was they wanted me to abandon him

But I couldn't and I wouldn't and I am glad I didn't

So - the last trigger was less than a month ago. I really felt that this was enough - my pain specialist is refering me to a therapist who deals with traumatic loss and I had never put those two words together but yes - losing a child is traumatic all by itself - add suicide and it is worse - a sudden and violent death.

And it's terrible for everyone whatever way a child dies but why after well over 30 years am I so devastated when I am triggered? I had to work this out

So I think over a week give or take I rang Life Line 4 times and worked through it - and now I think that my own parents and siblings treated us so badly was appalling and unwarrented - showing their weakness - not mine - and although my father talked to me at the end of his life and was so regretful of what he had done and actually - really proud of me - I was vinidcated but still - but mother tried to say something but got stuck and never really made sense to me - and yes - she had some degree of dementia and was stuck in her own favourite words - she didn't like being "upset" - who does?

And for decades I was lost somewhere - not knowing if what I was going through was normal or abnormal - trying to accept what had happened - more than just my son dying - knowing the past can never be changed -

I think I have it now - although my father owned his part in what happened justice was never served because my mother never did - and she was a very cruel woman psychologically - and my sister is toxic and self-righteous - and doesn't want to be ''upset''. I have felt better about it all since then - not a month yet - and it will depend on how I feel the next time a trigger happens

Easter is over two months away yet but that's when I will hit the dark dates - my son went into prison - juvenile detention - at Easter when he was not conforming to his probabtion requirements

Only my parents gave me a message - unspoken - get rid of that child or we will never speak to me again. Apart from a short time when he did they didn't talk to me - so what I am glad off - proud off - I never abandoned him - I know too well what that is like and he knew I would always come back

So I was told often that "I would have to do something about that boy" - I did all I could - I left my family because I was not going to tolerate their nasty behaviour - I have kept my dignity - but in reality treating me like that was abandonment.

Thanks everyone - I will get back to this thread later

Dec