30 Years

Hi Again @Appleblossom

Thanks for your feedback - I appreciate that - it is supporting to me too to hear that DHS seemed so powerful at the time but in retrospect - they were actually underwhelming - I love that word.

I still recall arguing with them when they tried to make us have R home for often. I had to be as assertive as I could - I told them I could only have him at home for limited time - I wanted my time with him to be "meaningful" and they wanted to know what I meant by that. D'uh - full of meaning of course.

Short doses - like after school, dinner and then back to the Family Group Home once a week and sometimes an outing at the weekend were enough. I still wince when I think of it, I think they found me a bit of a handful too.

So we do understand each other about our mothers - however long or however often - whatever it is - we would like it if our mother could be a mother - but I consider now that I was fortunate with other members of my extended family -

I wish you all the best for your girls - but if write those books for them - then you are speaking to them in their future. However - I do hope you hit pay dirt. And yes - they are all different people - you might fail with one - and win with another -

Listen to your heart - remember how it was with your mother -

I really hope things work out for you

Decadian

Thanks

I have had contact with girl I knew in school who went to Winlaton, she is very different to me, butkept contact and started fostering kids on weekends. I found the kids friendly, they all had potential, and it was interesting to meet them and gain a broader sense than just our family story. Not that I want to discount it but put it in perspective.

@Decadian Did you have any other children? What made you decide to adopt?

I had some experiences when I was a mum and my kids were all together. A lady in our street, bunks in 2 bedrooms and brought in 4 fosters, but had her own child at the local grammar school and kept bad mouthing the fosters. I was less impressed and never told her my experience, just withdrew from that family. The whole court there was not very nice. It was a very materialistic neighbourhood, and not educated. Sometimes a fancy school helps, but it shouldnt really be necessary in my my book. The kids were aggressive and we had the smaller house. The others were not quite Macmansions.. but .. it turned out awful for my son ..Here in the court I am friendly with a 4 year old. I think back on the bullies that teased and beat my son when he was 4. We are ok now .. but it has been a long and difficult journey.

Hi @Appleblossom

Yes - I do have another child - my daughter is in her 40s now and I have grandchildren. However I don't see much of them - though I do keep in touch with some of them on Facebook.

My ex-husband and I were married for 3 years and during that time I had several miscarriages. The specialist recommended that we wait another two years before we try again - and this seemed a terribly long time - so we decided to go ahead with an adoption. The process only took 9 months - and sometime after that I found I was pregnant again - and with my doctor's help I managed to carry my daughter for 8 months - athough she had hard start in life - but in time caught up physically - and she has a high IQ - She was born just over two years after my son who was also highly intelligent but the difference was that his brain was badly wired -

I cannot understand why people would foster a child and then dehumanise that child. Living with our son was a continuous state of chaos - but he was given as much attention as my daughter who was failing to thrive. My kids had different needs and so yes - they were treated differently - but they had their own room, proper beds, good food, a healthy living environment, appropriate clothing, holidays, outings and treats -

My son loved day-care and went two days a week for a couple of years - my daughter hated it and only went there ocassionally - I went to parenting classes and learned what was important in being a parent and what was less so - and whose problem an issue was. My relationship with my mother was never good but my father was an excellent parent - and I learned from him - I did not let it rest - I was not perfect - I was stressed out in a major way - but I believe I was the best parent I could be and did not discimimate - always telling the children that I loved them both -

I really think that people who adopt or foster children and treat them badly are performing an act of dehumanisation - it is totally cruel. I think treating children in a family that was causing far more heartache -

Financially we struggled - I could not return to full time work until after my son died - but I did work full time after I was sufficiently recovered. I am not materialistic. I value education as well - my son could have studied anything he wanted to - he would have made a great barrister - my daughter did a four year apprenticeship and now is a very qualified person

Ill treatment of children sickens me. I do not understand it. It is terrible.

Lately I have been doing my annual sorting out of papers an ditching old accounts etc - and I came across things I wrote during my son's life - and then after his death - and although I have not read these documents for years I find my memories have not changed

Sorry about the long ramble - it has been tough and I know I have often fallen short - but I loved my kids - and I always will

Decadian

I value your response. @Decadian

I feel like a normal woman and mother reading your posts. We both raised a biological and adoptive child close in age (though I did not legally adopt I had "guardianship"). Yes I agree that children have different needs and responses and it is not really appropriate to treat them the same. For a while I used the kitchen timer after dinner, so that I ensured I gave them equal time and attention for night-time settling etc. I was ruthless with myself in giving my full love to each child, but it became very apparent that the oldest got extra attention and gifts. Things werent equal ... so I developed a saying.. "love and parenting are not about even stevens". The older was too dominating while they shared a room with twin beds, so eventually decided to move house and buy a house with 4 bedrooms so each child had a room when they 5, 10 and 11ish. By then I had 3. We were there for 5 years, it was the court I mentioned. The marriage had long been far from ideal, but once in it, I couldnt just leave.

My girls were 16 months apart

I too put a lot of effort into parenting and learned and researched if I did not understand things. I tended to go the extra mile, and was deeply committed to my oldest and keeping the family together as a unit and trying to heal the problems caused by mental illness in the past. My husband said that my daughters were valued at the local primary school as they presented well in both appearance, scholastics, and behaviour. Yet my son was the one who suffered most from the sense of chaos and manipulation generated by the oldest. We couldnt play a game with out hardnosed competitiveness or a eat a meal in peace. I left the dining table and just served the meals and ate quietly in another room because I didnt know what else to do. The father would not stand up to the oldest maybe he felt guilty about leaving her mother. The mother also phoned and harrassed us between access visits, but I stood for her right to see her mother and not cut her off completely.

....

You are older than me as I only started my mothering in 86. I have not had time to sort out all my old writing and journals, but sill accruing them. You are right it is a good idea to look back and reflect occasionally. We can only do our best. Nobody is perfect and at some stage we need to accept that.

I also went to Anglicare and did the training to do fostercare, but decided against it. I talked it over with my son and we agreed. It was interesting meeting others who were considering it or were wanting help dealing with kids already fostered. People do it for all sorts of reasons. They get paid, unlike adoption, but the kids are usually older.

Good Morning @Appleblossom

I feel less alone when I read your messages too - reading through my old notes and letters to politicans and other relevant people - and the Australian Institute of Criminology and the Aboringal Legal Service - as well as finding a couple of journals I had kept - I have found that my story has not changed - my memory is crystal clear on the subject - and recently I heard on TV that our recollection of our memories changes over time. I guess the events surrounding R's life are burned into my brain.

We often discussed how dark his skin became - (in his absence) and he does have an aboriginal caste to his features. Toward the end of his life I got birth information and read a bunch of lies - and R was ripped apart - he could see he was of mixed race - and it does not matter one whit what I or anyone else though or felt about this - and everything on what he thought and felt - and it tore him up. I promised I would find his birth mother and eventually I did - and yes - he was of aboriginal descent and I can tell you - if I was every prejudiced before this - I have not been since. I am proud my son was of our indigneous peopole and that I was able to do smething about that many years after he died

It sounds pretty much as if you had your hands full with your family - having a timer on how much time you spent with each girl sounds like a good idea but at the same time - you are right - rearing children is not even-stevens - they are different and had different needs. It is hard though - if R throught A was getting more than him he would kick up a fuss and I told him near enough is good enough - but this was something he did not understand - for some reason he felt he was cheated - and the fuss about how much dessert and how much cake was only the symptom of how uneven life felt for him. However - like you - I know he claimed more of everything and my time was stretched to the limit

I don't know when we started eating dinner in front of the TV - I think it was after R went into the Family Group Homes but he had dinner at our home often - the thing was our marriage was going down-hill fast. I resented my ex's lack of commitment and help during all of this. Looking at the TV meant we didn't look at each other - which was a relief.

It seems to me that you did your best with a blended - thine, mine and ours - family, Maybe it didn't blend. But you had your hands over-flowing - and I really understand that

Yes - I would be quite a bit older - I started mothering when I was 26 - I think of my age now as "the gift of years" when older people have the chance of reflecting across the past - personal and historical - and learning from it. The getting of wisdom is tough stuff. Valuable though

We did not have any education about adopting a child - now that is the case - and you are right - no one is paid for it. Now it is called Permanent Care and I don't know if it is so in all cases - but the birth mother can be involved. I would not have liked this idea when I was young - but now - it seems a good idea - the adoption triangle is tough on all concerned

I had the parenting classes through Travancore - which used to be an in-patient facility for kids like R. It's different now but I think at the time it was pretty harsh - we removed him - but not before I got the benefit of the classes in Systemic Training for Effective Parenting. It didn't help with R much but it was great for A.

It is helping me a lot reading your story and telling you mine - I don't feel so alone - and I have been - I think I have worked out your kids now - you had a step-daughter from your husband and two of your own - and your children could be combative.

I wonder if there is a secret bunch of Brady Kids somewhere who have the perfect home - I don't know. R was combative and growing up in my family of origin was pretty loud too - I remember us shouting our way through meals and it seemed to be normal

But what is normal - I think we are both "normal" whatever ever it means - but whatever it is - I feel more normal chatting with you

WTG Appleblossom

Decadian

Yes thanks for trawling through my story and making sense or it. I have been busy with my son and we had a very productive weekend.

Reading this last post shows another 2 themes that resonate for both of us.

1) Indigenous people

2) Travancore.

I did a course called Genealogies of Place ... at uni with Aboriginal lecturer

I lived in walking distance from Travancore as a child, knew people in the street, heard stories through my adolescence. Visited 2 uncles on the grounds when it was known as Mental Retardation ... then later in my marriage we had many years of family therapy. Then last year I was mingling with a poor lovely psychiatrist up to his ears with hard luck stories working there and he meets me in his choir.

When I was in the 3rd orphanage I made friends with an aboriginal girl ... well just shy trust .. she was the next new one ... and I showed her around ... but I think of her as my first friend though i cant remember her name. I remember the event ... I treasure it .. it was a few moments in a very tumultuous period ... then they took her away ..

When I went back with my parents my dad introduced me to his Aboriginal mates from his orphanage days. I felt proud ... my dad introducing me to his friends ... all my mother was seeing a native brandishing a bottle of booze .. different points of view

It wasnt until my early 30s that I actually consciously registered that they were Indigenous. I have always felt close to our first peoples ... excesses of colonialism caused such incredible tragedy it is hard to know what to do. I also recently met a classics scholar ...a gentle man without kids of his own who ended up adopting 4 Aboriginal kids. But they all had it hard ... dealing with substance abuse etc .. It does put your son's circumstances in perspective. Best of intentions .. and like with my first daughter .. once a child is in the world .. their needs cry out .. we can only do our best.

I also went to a compassionate friends meeting just after my sister died ... I went with the youngest sister ... who had never been a state ward ... instead of being my usual little sister .. she started quoting poetry about Donne ... and no man's an island .. but she is the one who cut me off .. for 30 years now ... without reason ... it seems to be a common response to suicide in a family. Inspite of that pain ...

I feel a deep calmness ... having "met" you and shared. Thank you

Hi @Appleblossom

That is so wonderful to know - that you have experienced "deep calmness" - how wonderful - that is magical - thanks so much for telling me

It's really interesting to know that we have these two things in common

Travancore

And Indignenous people

I will have to look Travancore up on the internet - it seems it has been a variety of things through the years - sometimes not good. I think R suffered a lot there - but then - he was not really capable of fitting in anywhere - he was a very unhappy person

I learned a lot going to parenting classes though - I discovered one of R's main problems -

Just a short story - true - I was sitting on the beach with R and he wanted to go somewhere else - but he was unhappy there too. R learned against me and said - "When we were at W I felt unhappy and now we are at the C and I still feel unhappy - and I know if we going back to W I will still be unhappy" - I said "I know - what you have has a name". He was surprised and asked me what it was and I told him "Transitional Ambivalence".

He did not know the words of course - he was about 8 - but he understood what I meant -

And that was a breakthrough moment for me - I could feel his misery coming out through his skin and I remember wondering how I could help him - I felt so helpless - knowing something but not enough

I did not know R had an indigneous background - most likely I would not have adopted him had I known - but now I feel pleased with this. He could see he was of mixed race and this tore him apart - and not knowing the truth caused him to be angry. Had I known I might have found other people like him and sought their help -

I got the proof years after he died - and I got onto politicans about his dying in Custody during the Period of the Royal Commission into Aborignal Deaths in Custody. I had the statistics changed and I also wrote and I also made a submission to the Taskforce Into Youth Suicide - and I was asked to speak in public about this.

His main emotion was unhappiness - and I think he knew - as he got older - that I was doing my best for him - but it was not enough

Appleblossom - I could write so much more - I have the feeling I have written all of this before - not sure where

It helps me a lot to share my story about this lost little boy - there is something inside me that hurts purely for his sake - quite separately from my own loss

Decadian

Thank you for sharing. @Decadian

I think it is important for us both and relevant for others on the forum reading too.

I am glad that you had his death registered with Deaths in Custody.

I learned a lot after the deaths of my family members. If I had not ... then my offspring would have been haunted by the "schizophrenia" gene .. but they are not and my son knows the reasons why things happened. I am glad I did my research, but have not been able to talk to my biological daughter ... so maybe one day ...

Warm regards

Apple