Anger turned inward or outward?

@Appleblossom I just gave my opinion on your opinion (re We Li), that's all.

And suicidality has nothing necessarily to do with mental illness - it's to do with despair, inescapable pain or, probably, in We Li's case, terrible guilt and loss (and probably fear for the future). There might be some other reasons for suicidality but suicide is in no way necessarily correlated with mental illness (any more than any other severe health condition or disability, that is).

@Appleblossom I apologse if my comments offended you in any way.

No it wasnt a my opinion your opinion thing ... I dont care about my opinion that much ... whatever ... the whole tone is about opening discussion rather than being definitive. I want to understand ...

In Wei Li's case I do not know whether his suicidality was before or after the act of killing his mother ... I think that makes a difference. ??

Suicidal ideation is a common feature of MI and definitely implicated in depression tho not usually a diagnostic criteria ... however it is one of the intrusive thoughts that many people struggle with in a range of different MI.

I dont want to argue with you @Terry .. essentially we are on the same side. I am not offended. I felt robbed of my right of reply when I was younger, so am simply responding and exercising it now I am older.

For about 15 years "sorry" was a word I said a lot, as I weaved about doing my daily tasks.

I am sorry the situation with excessive parental projections onto their children exists, but it does. Part of it is love, part of is hope, part of it is self love, but it can also be destructive.

@Appleblossom No worries, Appleblossom. I actually disagree with the commonly-held beliefs about MI and suicidal ideation - as indicated in my previous blog-post on the topic, which articulates my argument and beliefs. Suicidal ideation is caused by despair. Let's talk about something else - this is depressing.

@Appleblossom i actually didn't mean to imply that you were affected by mental illness in your opinion of the we li case - but that because you had been through something similar to him and you have a mental illness you were assuming (with a rational mind) that mental illness might have caused him to do what he did. However, you were actually trying to say that MI issues might have been involved in the case because of his suicidal ideation. I was not trying to imply that your argument wasn't credible because you have a mental illness - i think we got our wires crossed, or i didn't word my post right.

@Terry,

I guess it comes down to a persons capacity for free will,self control,ability to reason clearly,having clear perceptions,ability to understand the full consequences of their actions,ability to be in control of their choices without influence from illness, and ability to regulate emotion.

If a person with a coexisting mental illness (or lupus or cancer etc) is able to do the above things and still chooses to do a crime,then its possibly an act of the will and they should take personal responsibility because it is seperate from the illness they may have.

At the same time,there are people whos actions are due to their illness.

What seperates them from people from people who have lupus,cancer,or an broken leg etc is that the organ that is affected is the brain as opposed to a body part.

If the brains personality and behavour area/s are affected,then it can cause that person to act in a way/do things that they otherwise would not have chosen to do (regardless whether the cause is depression,schizophrenia,autism,dementia,CNS Lupus,Encephalitis,tumor or any other pathological process affecting those brain areas).

@Former-Member mentioned one example.Another example might be a father or mother with depression who commit suicide and killl their children too.Often the depression is clouding their thinking and makes them believe the children would not be able to survive without them.

I agree with you that if a person with mental illness is treated aggressively,without respect or dignity,mocked, or treated as if worthless,that it would cause them to feel angry and that's natural.

@ivana I maintain that there is no necessary link between mental illness and bad and/or criminal behaviour as outlined in my very coherent argument.

@ivana by way of illustration, the example of a parent who kills themselves and their child 'due' to depression is again an issue of despair. there is a way through depression and it involves TLC, like the way through anything else. At present people with depression are usually given some tablets and left to languish when they need TLC (nursing, being sung to, kindness - tablets won't fix a broken childhood or an excess of [apparently] inescapable pressure in a person's life). We simply don't know or care enough how to treat mental illness properly yet. The parent who commits murder and suicide typically wants to save their child/children from a 'cruel world' - that is, it is an issue of despair at the world, which is an issue of despair at human nature (only trust God, not people). Just about any health problem I can think of, with the exception of mental illness, is treated with kindness and empathy and effective treatment. Little wonder that many people with mental illnesses despair, at least at times - the first thing that happens when a person develops mental illness is rejection, insults, laughter, abuse, violence, and it tends to continue that way. People with mental illnesses take it out on themselves and/or others at some point, but that is not due to the mental illness but the shocking cruelty with which people with mental illnesses are treated. People who commit crimes when psychotic are only reacting (with perhaps, rare exceptions) to the perception of world they have learned exists when they are psychotic - that is, that people will be insulting, abusive and violent towards them, and nothing else. I maintain, and my argument is sound (as far as I can tell - certainly no-one has effectively refuted it yet) that there is no necessary link between mental illness and bad and/or criminal behaviour. nb. odd behaviour is not necessarily bad behaviour, although i grant that there is a premium on social conformity. here endeth the sermon!

@Terry,

Every situation is different.I agree that there is often a lack of dignified treatement towards people with mental illness in the health care system & that patients are often not provided the choice of what treatement they think would be best (eg:therapy vs medications).

Im guessing the reason you wouldn't want mental illness to ever be publicly associated with "bad" actions is due to the stigma,presumptions and negative perceptions people would form?

Thats understandable,but look at it from the other side too.Ie:if everyone thought this same way then everytime someone with Dementia (for example) attacked another person then it would be assumed to be an act of the will and they would receive a very harsh sentence.

@ivana Hi Ivana. I have articulated my arguments re bad or criminal behaviour in people with mental illnesses at this blogsite yesterday - I feel very confident that my arguments 'hold water'.