MHCP

Maybe @Neelix Some psychiatrists still do the 'on the couch' stuff lol They are much more aware (usually) than GPs on the medication front. Psychiatrists are doctors that specialise - just like surgeons for example. Psychologists are not doctors nor are occupational therapists.

My last post on this for tonight (sure everyone will be pleased about this!)

I believe that the confusion around this issue is highly likely to be around which service, plan or program is being accessed. If we are talking solely about the GP MHCP then certain restrictions/access to services and the medicare rebate for such applies as I stated earlier in the discussion.

Where it starts to get confusing is when there are services/programs etc. that ARE NOT related directly to a GP MHCP. Such programs could include ATAPS, Victims of Crime, etc. and funding is sourced or received either fully or partially outside of the medicare system. There are many different programs throughout Australia that allow people, for example, with low incomes (or on government related benefits) to access help also - and these programs are often NOT medicare based but independently/government funded.

I am sure that is as clear as mud to everyone!

Re the above post and ATAPS - I should have said that my understanding is ATAPS has changed to 12 without the additional six.

Good morning fellow muddled Forumites,

You know how muddled you are feeling right now? That's pretty much how I feel all the time living as an aspie in a neurotypical world.

@Zoe7 Super big thank you for starting this thread. Although...if you were one of the student's whose assignments I'm marking I would have said "It is great that you have started this thread. However, just be aware that you need to spell out a term in full before then using the acronym because your reader may not know what the acronym stands for."

@Former-Member As others have mentioned, the 12 sessions would be under ATAPS which is a separate program to the medicare "better access" scheme. Whereas anyone can get the medicare subsidised sessions, only certain groups (e.g. low income) are eligible for ATAPS. It is generally known that you can get 12 ATAPS sessions a year. However, you can actually get 18. I've used some of my 18 sessions on therapist-take-ten and therapist-take-eleven. Therapist-take-thirteen is registered with both ATAPS and Victims Services so I will probably start seeing her under ATAPS and then switch to Victims Services if she turns out to be a good match. Also, as I think someone else mentioned, people like mental health nurses can register for ATAPS but not medicare. Yep, it really is absurdly confusing!!!

@Neelix ATAPS is administered by the Primary Health Network (PHN) - at least, that is what they are called in NSW. Hospitals are run by the state government. Thus, any services accessed via the PHN or hospital will vary from state to state and even from district to district. However, medicare is run by the Federal government so the same rules apply across Australia.

As @Zoe7 said, psychiatrists are medical doctors who have chosen to specialise in mental health (as opposed to being a surgeon or a pediatrician or something like that). This is why psychiatrists can prescribe medication but psychologists can't. Hee hee, the "on the couch" stuff shown in movies is classical psychoanalysis. There would be very few psychiatrists around who would do that today (I wouldn't say none, but very few).

@Zoe7 I agree that some of the confusion is because the original issue of medicare subsidized sessions has got muddled with ATAPS etc. Right now, I see the key questions (regarding medicare) as being:

Is a "year" from Jan 1st to Dec 31st or is it a 52 week period?

Are there any circumstances in which you can access an additional ten sessions in a year (whatever a year may be).

I have only had a super quick look through the legislation that you provided the link to @Zoe7, but I think I may have discovered the issue. Section 2.3 talks about if the person goes to a new GP and that GP can't access the mental health treatment plan (MHTP) written by the previous GP. In that case, the new GP can develop a new treatment plan. It states that "Unless exceptional circumstances exist, MBS item 2712 cannot be used within 4 weeks of the GP Mental Health Treatment Plan being developed or 3 months of a previous MBS item 2712." Item numbers are for the GP's benefit. That is, GPs get paid different amounts by the government for different item numbers.

So...based on my super quick (and therefore quite possibly wrong) read, I think your GP has done a bit of a dodge @Zoe7 and @Neelix because this section is specifically talking about if the person changes GPs and the new GP can't access the old MHTP.

There is absolutely nothing anywhere that I can see that suggests anyone can get more than 10 medicare funded sessions per year (whatever a "year" is).

I super hope I am wrong because obviously it would be awesome if people could get 20 rather than 10 sessions subsidised via medicare per year. However, I really wouldn't be getting your hopes up anyone.

Do you have any thoughts on this @NikNik @Former-Member @Former-Member???

@Phoenix_Rising Section 3.5 does provide a little more information: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/pacd-gp-mental-health-care-pdf-qa#3_4

3.5 How often should I prepare a GP Mental Health Treatment Plan for a patient?

Many patients will not require a new GP Mental Health Treatment Plan after their initial plan has been prepared. A new Plan should not be prepared unless clinically required, and generally not within 12 months of a previous Plan.

Unless exceptional circumstances exist, a rebate for preparation of a GP Mental Health Treatment Plan will not be paid within 12 months of a previous claim for the patient for the same item or within three months following a claim for a review (MBS item 2712).

GPs do not have to complete another GP Mental Health Treatment Plan using one of the new items (2700, 2701, 2715 or 2717) if they are already managing a patient’s care needs using one of the former GP Mental Health Treatment Plan items (items 2702 and 2710) and this plan is still appropriate to the patient’s needs. A new GP Mental Health Treatment Plan should not be prepared for a patient unless clinically indicated.

There is still some confusion in all the information provided in this link as both a '12 month' timeframe AND a 'calendar' year are both referred to. The confusion could also be that there are different requirements for completing a MHCP (and ongoing treatment for such) and for ongoing support for some previously diagnosed mental illnesses.

My understanding (from discussions/debates my GP and psychologist had) is that a MHCP is a 12 month period (not a calendar year) - both GP and psychologist comfirmed this with medicare.

This is not consistent across Medicare, GP and/or Psychologists understandings - and thus is a source of confusion IRL as well as for us on here

Thanks @Phoenix_Rising

Yes it is confusing,as stated did have more sessions with mh nurse one year,and I know the psychologists were Medicare.

After going through experiences,I think they are just well paid idiots.Hope others have benefited somewhere.

@Zoe7 Peek-a-boo. I am rewarding myself for having survived marking another paper, by appearing super briefly here.

I think the muddle here @Zoe7 is that in preparing a new MHTP, this doesn't mean the GP is saying the person gets another 10 sessions in the year (whatever the heck a year is!!!!). This legislation relates to what the GP can get reimbursed for, from the government. So...if you look up the MBS item numbers, I imagine you will find that the GP might be able to claim a higher rebate for writing a new plan vs updating an existing plan (and thus there are all these rules around defining when the GP should do a new plan vs update an existing plan). The term "rebate" here isn't talking about what the patient gets rebated for in terms of subsidised sessions, it is talking about what the GP gets rebated for, for preparing the plan.

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@Li1 wrote:

Thanks @Phoenix_Rising

Yes it is confusing,as stated did have more sessions with mh nurse one year,and I know the psychologists were Medicare.

After going through experiences,I think they are just well paid idiots.Hope others have benefited somewhere.

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@Former-Member Definitely superly duperly confusing!!! And I agree that a LOT of mental health professionals are well paid idiots. However, I also know how amazing my former uni counsellor and my current turtle whisperer are. Furthermore, I know how super awesome @Former-Member @Former-Member and @Former-Member are. So I know for a fact that they aren't ALL well paid idiots (or even poorly paid idiots ).