TheVorticonSenior Contributor
Talking about not talking
@Former-Member and @Zoe7 thanks for your replies in the other thread. Figured I would make a new thread for this stuff so that if there is more to say/not-say, it can be said/not-said here.
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Talking about not talking
142 replies
In response to: Talking about not talking
TeejSenior Contributor
Re: Talking about not talking
Lol with the not wanting to deal with stuff in a healthy way just for now @TheVorticon. That made me smile cos I totally do that sometimes. Also an expert at burying head in sand. Take care.
In response to: Talking about not talking
TheVorticonSenior Contributor
Re: Talking about not talking
I'm still rather annoyed about things today.
I feel like my ongoing thoughts about self injury (and by extension suicide, because the process is very intertwined in the way I think about it) aren't taken seriously because I know I'm not a risk to myself unless I choose to be. So I don't think most of the "strategies" apply to me because if I don't want to do it then I just need to not do it, if I do want to do it then maybe that's a problem, but when the thoughts arrive I spend most of my time in the undecided area of not knowing whether I want to or not. And it feels like no one is actually interested in / able to help with that.
I feel like my ongoing thoughts about self injury (and by extension suicide, because the process is very intertwined in the way I think about it) aren't taken seriously because I know I'm not a risk to myself unless I choose to be. So I don't think most of the "strategies" apply to me because if I don't want to do it then I just need to not do it, if I do want to do it then maybe that's a problem, but when the thoughts arrive I spend most of my time in the undecided area of not knowing whether I want to or not. And it feels like no one is actually interested in / able to help with that.
In response to: Re: Talking about not talking
Unknown userMember
Re: Talking about not talking
hello @TheVorticon
you are a thinker...am I correct?
I am a thinker....I analyse so many things until the cows come home
I have spoken to my psychiatrist recently about this very subject. For years I felt as though it was taboo
I was told that the fact that I kept on going back to similar thoughts and in my language that I was analysing them, is a healthy sign.
I think it is a sign of what they now refer to as insight...yes we have another new term to add to our lists
apparently I was told..even people who do not suffer with symptoms of mental illness....the healthy ones!!?? even they can have passing thoughts of suicide.
thoughts that come and go do not all have to have an answer ....a solution...they are just thoughts....words flying around inside our minds.
so when you say that your thoughts "aren't taken seriously" and "it feels like no one is actually interested in / able to help with that." ....who are they? or could it be that these are more of our own thoughts not others? not in any way diminishing your feelings or how you feel that others have treated you.
I believe that you are an analyser and wondered if you wanted to look at the puzzle from a different perspective?
In response to: Talking about not talking
CheerBearSenior Contributor
Re: Talking about not talking
Hi @TheVorticon
I get really frustrated often, with something that I think you just highlighted - "I'm not a risk to myself unless I choose to be".
Suicide can't just happen to me, I have to choose for it to, and so far I've proven to myself that I am able to not make that choice. What that means, is if I seek support when I am in that in between space that you called the 'undecided area' , it can sometimes feel like banging my head against a wall because I think deep inside me, there's a similar voice to yours that says 'if you don't want to do it, just don't do it'.
What's helpful for each of us is different, and I think it can be really tricky to get/recieve support when you so strongly believe that in order for X or Y not to happen, don't X or Y (with absolute apologies if that has come out as being "blame TheVorticon for not being able to get support", because that's not how I mean it).
The other side of that is that it can also be really tricky to provide support to someone who knows this about the person they're supporting too. I see it often. There's almost a look of 'now what?' that can come along with trying to support someone in that situation, when other typical options aren't necessarily going to help (like offering strategies).
I find that it can very much feel like no-one is interested or able to help, or taking it seriously. It doesn't mean that people aren't interested or able to help, or that it isn't serious, but it really can feel like that.
I've found that what does help me is being able to express myself without being afraid of what someone will think or say. It's helpful for me to have people willing to sit in the 'mud' with me until it changes. It's so helpful to be in the company of people who get it, or who are at least trying to get it. And it's helpful for people to respect that I am free and able to make the choices I want to, too.
So I guess in coming past, I wanted to add another voice to the people who are listening to you, with the hope that it is helpful for you to be heard. (Please feel free to tell me if it isn't)
I get really frustrated often, with something that I think you just highlighted - "I'm not a risk to myself unless I choose to be".
Suicide can't just happen to me, I have to choose for it to, and so far I've proven to myself that I am able to not make that choice. What that means, is if I seek support when I am in that in between space that you called the 'undecided area' , it can sometimes feel like banging my head against a wall because I think deep inside me, there's a similar voice to yours that says 'if you don't want to do it, just don't do it'.
What's helpful for each of us is different, and I think it can be really tricky to get/recieve support when you so strongly believe that in order for X or Y not to happen, don't X or Y (with absolute apologies if that has come out as being "blame TheVorticon for not being able to get support", because that's not how I mean it).
The other side of that is that it can also be really tricky to provide support to someone who knows this about the person they're supporting too. I see it often. There's almost a look of 'now what?' that can come along with trying to support someone in that situation, when other typical options aren't necessarily going to help (like offering strategies).
I find that it can very much feel like no-one is interested or able to help, or taking it seriously. It doesn't mean that people aren't interested or able to help, or that it isn't serious, but it really can feel like that.
I've found that what does help me is being able to express myself without being afraid of what someone will think or say. It's helpful for me to have people willing to sit in the 'mud' with me until it changes. It's so helpful to be in the company of people who get it, or who are at least trying to get it. And it's helpful for people to respect that I am free and able to make the choices I want to, too.
So I guess in coming past, I wanted to add another voice to the people who are listening to you, with the hope that it is helpful for you to be heard. (Please feel free to tell me if it isn't)
In response to: Re: Talking about not talking
TheVorticonSenior Contributor
Re: Talking about not talking
Hi mohill. I have never considered myself to be a 'thinker' or 'analyser' actually.
I'm perfectly capable of thought if I choose to, but it doesn't come naturally to me. Maybe it's because I define thought as internally vocalising thoughts, and don't notice other thoughts unless they present a picture, idea or solution. I don't often internally vocalise thoughts unless I'm specifically working on something, but I don't enjoy working on intangables so tend not to do it for things like this.
To be honest, and no offense intended, it's not something I like to do when I'm not feeling good as it tends to make things harder to deal with. I just feel like I'm having to rebut and explain, even if it's just against myself, and it's frustrating. But thanks for your input.
Thanks CheerBear. I think I understand what you mean. I don't really know how to use it though. Being listened to and heard is definitely far more helpful than not being heard, so it's a net win. Thanks.
Tonight...
I feel like I want to cry but my body won't cooperate. I feel like I want to reach through my head and tear out the thing inside me but there's no way to do that. I feel like it's an offense to be feeling and I just want it to stop.
In response to: Re: Talking about not talking
Unknown userMember
Re: Talking about not talking
No offence taken @TheVorticon
I am sorry if I trampled all over your pain
wanting to cry...scream...and no sound ...is what I experience at times
would it help you if I say I am listening only...no more ideas..suggestions...lips zipped...I am listening
In response to: Re: Talking about not talking
TheVorticonSenior Contributor
Re: Talking about not talking
Thanks @Former-Member. You weren't wrong about what you were saying but I just didn't have a way to respond.
I don't know how to have negative feelings and have that be ok. I reject those feelings and think they are stupid and weak. But the popular catchphrase is "speak to someone if you're not feeling ok" so I try it, anonymously to try to keep the weakness removed from daily life, trying to stop things from reaching boiling point. So I do go into the 'conversation' with the mindset that the way I feel is stupid/weak/illegitimate and wanting to hear "it's real and it's ok". I need a sense of that before I can take anything on board because otherwise it feeds the counterpoint that I shouldn't be feeling it and certainly shouldn't be talking about it.
In response to: Re: Talking about not talking
Unknown userMember
Re: Talking about not talking
hello @TheVorticon
I have been searching for a long time to find someone who listens...nothing to do with mental illness
the greater majority of people do not listen....even if they are silent they are busy thinking about themselves
waiting to hear from another that it is ok and real ..most likely only to be heard from a good therapist
learning to listen to ourselves....not judge ourselves and start to like ourselves is the key in my world
hope that you do find some peace soon
In response to: Re: Talking about not talking
TheVorticonSenior Contributor
Re: Talking about not talking
I hope you can find a sense of feeling listened to @Former-Member.
I disagree though that articulating that someone's feelings are real and are ok to have is something that likely only a good therapist would/should do. Maybe it's the current state of things, but I think anyone in a helping position should consider doing exactly that. Where/when I grew up, people didn't express negative emotions - you're all good or you shut up and get good. If only a good therapist is cognizant of that ingrained attitude being a barrier to getting help, then no wonder it's all pretty useless.
I disagree though that articulating that someone's feelings are real and are ok to have is something that likely only a good therapist would/should do. Maybe it's the current state of things, but I think anyone in a helping position should consider doing exactly that. Where/when I grew up, people didn't express negative emotions - you're all good or you shut up and get good. If only a good therapist is cognizant of that ingrained attitude being a barrier to getting help, then no wonder it's all pretty useless.
In response to: Re: Talking about not talking
Phoenix_RisingSenior Contributor
Re: Talking about not talking
@TheVorticon I am about to head off for the night but I just happened to see your post. Whatever you are feeling right now, those are your feelings. They are real and they are ok to have. Feelings are feelings. They are neither good or bad, right or wrong, they simply are what they are. Good night @TheVorticon 
