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Managing thoughts of suicide & self-harm

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I figure it's better to introduce my challenges here than in a welcome. Hopefully only people willing to hear about SI will venture here.

TW: Suicidal Ideation

Content/trigger warning

I've had thoughts of suicide since I was 12. I don't remember much of life before this time. I'm aware there are times that I haven't though as much about suicide as others, but it's always been a "yes please, that would be my preference" even during the better times.

Why am I still alive then? For two reasons:

- the emotional pain it would cause to very close family.

- the physical pain of accessible methods, and the risks of non-fatal attempts causing lifelong physical impairments.

How do I keep myself going all these years?

By focusing on how I can benefit other people's lives instead. If I'm going to put up with life, it may as well be beneficial to someone.

And to help me keep life less monotonous I look for 'interesting' things - quirky people, exploring foreign countries/cultures, trying new foods (even if i dont think I'll like them). I've never been a status-quo person.

I explain to MH supports that when life is not distressing I can carry on without seriously considering suicide as a possible option. I can say "hello there thought, I hear you but I have chosen not to act on it, things are OK". But when something sets things off kilter, its a pretty quick track back to "why am I still doing this? Do I really still have the same commitment to living? And why, for whom? Why can't I be permitted to die if that's what I want for myself?"

With decades of this under my belt, I have the ability to sit with feelings of extreme distress. And the courage to text or call someone if I need to - and I'm getting a little better at doing this *before* it gets too extreme, but I still hesitate because I don't want to burden others and the frequency of it happening during those unbalanced times is too often. I've persuaded myself a few times recently to instead call a crisis line, but waiting 30-45min in a queue can sometimes exacerbate the thoughts, and sometimes the calls might help dissipate the feelings (if i called early enough) but other times I feel worse after because of course they're going to try to give some positive outlook for the future, but it grates on me because deep down I dont want a future at all. Its actually refreshing when someone acknowledges that not liking/wanting life is OK - and instead just tries to look at how to rebalance the scales to help me cope with continuing to live despite not wanting to.

I'm not sure how un/common my way of thinking is. So much about suicide prevention is focused on short-term distress tolerance or "fixable" problems (eg situations).

What do I need from the community here...?

To be heard? To know if anyone else out there has a long enduring preference to die even when they aren't feeling active distress? And if so, has anything helped them longterm to shift that thinking?

If anyone knows of any practitioners who *specialise* in chronic SI since a young age, I'd really love to know who (if there is a way someone is allowed to??). I've tried Google searching and using online psych directories and reading bio's. I've seen many psychologists and psychiatrists in the past who haven't been able to help me shift this (even if theyve helped in other ways).

I do wonder if my neural networks for positive emotional may not have fully developed or may have atrophied due to the young age and length of time. I genuinely do not know what being happy feels like, I do not have any memory that I recall as being "happy" or joy, and I suspect this makes recovery much harder.

Im ok at the moment. Im safe. But it is exhausting.

Apologies this post is quite a bit too long.

1604 replies

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In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Good evening @AlwaysMyself 💛

I know you have been curious about more supports. Are you familiar with the Blue Knot Foundation?

Yes, please keep me updated! I would love to know and support further in any way I can. I read a little bit about your experience with your father growing up (on another thread), and I just wanted to say that I think this is such a valid reason as to why your nervous system might relate/react to the world in the way it does. I think this is a very important piece of the puzzle here. 🫶

How are things feeling for you this week? ☺️

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@Cuddlebear always lovely to hear from you *hug*. I am glad that my taper so far seems to be going well, not much more than a little bit of light headedness occasionally - but nothing causing a problem. I wish yours was as painless as mine.

I'm not sure yet what techniques the counsellor uses for trauma. I expect she probably has lot of different things and picks what it best for the client? She doesnt do emdr though, or she would advertise it specifically i think. But she has worked as a trauma counsellor at crisis centres in the past, for example.

Often in the past my counsellors and psychologists havent said "this is xxx therapy" - theyve just taught me skills or done guided things based on what they think will help. So often i dont know the name of the techniques until someone mentions one and i read about it and realise "oh, thats what xxx did with me". I like this approach though, because they pick and choose from a big toolbox based on what the repair job needs!

It is possible it might help improve the baseline by helping me reconnect to emotions, especially the abiity to feel positive ones. That what i/we hope.

I got a call yesterday from the peer worker, and scheduled the first meeting next week to do paperwork and goals, etc. Then there is 6-8 sessions of 1hr (weekly).

The chemist is a great idea for blood pressure checking. I didnt think of that! I am going to keep that in mind as that will be handy if i am concerned about it. Saw my gp yesterday and got him to measure it. It was still above good range, but he doesnt seem to be concerned. Which is... questionable because i know in the past he has taken it and commented that it is a bit high. I'm not worried about it though. But will get the MH GP opinion via "when i get distressed, my BP goes up to..." and she is she has any concern or not.

When i saw my GP yesterday he didnt ask how my taper is going - i dont think he remembered. And i forgot to mention that is seems to be going ok 😅. He also did not mention or ask about the ED visit (he got the discharge summary, he new what i was referring to when i said i wanted to check my BP because of the readings that morning). This type of thing is why I am going to see a MH GP because he really doesnt talk about MH. I was there for a work certificate and my trial referral - both MH related 100%.

I did a good thing for myself today, i hope.

@Cuddlebear @tyme @MissGremlin @Chasingsunsets. @AuntGlow @Jynx @Flutterbug9 (because people like hearing the good stuff, right?)

After getting my tests done (medical checks for the trial) i went to the medicare MH centre up the road to check with them about services - their website says there is a 6wk peer support group for social. So i waited around to then do an intake assessment with them (i did one 18mths ago, but didnt have any helpful referrals out of it). They promise that they will get back to me in 1-2 days with suggested referrals and then check back to make sure the referrals were helpful / in-place, and if not then try to help/find other suitable ones. But as you say - sometimes what is needed just doesnt exist - and what then?

But i will let them worry about that, right? I've said i'm focused on support that will assist me getting to April with more support / better 'quality of life'. Making things a bit easier in the interim in the focus. Since most depression supports are only short-term or medium-term, hopefully there will be something (or a series of things) that can be setup, even if its just social connection face to face during the day. The type of stuff i guess i also wish for you @Cuddlebear .

So despite my popr experience 18mth ago with the service, i have tried again. Never know maybe new thing available now in the area - they're the place meant to know of all the options.

Oh and they did a safety plan with me. Its just what i already do, but i guess its written down now (ive never had a problem with recalling what my options for helping myself are though, but if it makes others happy to know its written down in case i forget whilst in distress thats fine. Maybe il add phone numbers of the people onto my personal copy so that i can always hand it to someone and point to a number if i would like help calling someone... dont need to search mobie phone for it).

I am interested to know how you find the recovery club @Cuddlebear (or anyone else reading who has done it) - what are the most helpful parts that you found?

My struggle in knowing if it would be a good "extra support" for me or not during this current time is because i know all the psych theory, i already practice the self-talk & reframing, etc etc... but the peer connection aspect of the groups is i guess what i might find helpful - even if its just listening to others, takes me out of myself for awhile. 🤔

So i am curious to hear what are the most beneficial aspects different people find. I still have the copy of the book which i read through 😉. Maybe i should look at that again and see if anything in its topics jumps out at me now.

@tyme the problem with the mindspot Big 5 is that behavioural activation is not my problem. I can do things, but i don't feel better for them. Often i feel worse for them because then i feel tired. I have to *tell myself* intellectualy that is was "a good thing" - like with my study last week. I dont feel good/better from having unpacked the boxes. But i tell myself it was good to do it even though i dont currently use that room anyway. I just dont feel it inside.

Its the same with most things - cooking, exercise, showering, regular eating of nutrition, doing my painting, going out to social things... i tell myself they are good things to do. I dont feel better for it.

I feel better for having my remedial massage, chiro and counsellor appointments though. Less pain is always good.

Yes, there is 1 safe haven 30min drive from me (1.5-2hr by bus? $60 by Uber). But they are only open 5 evenings a week. And my MH doesnt only flair up during those hours. Thats how i ended up being referred to ED because it wasnt open and there are no other places to go. I have mentioned this to the Medicare MH people today as "what would help" is somewhere to go when the haven is closed - so if there is any little-know places hopefully they can refer me.

I realised something today. @AuntGlow may be interested. I think i am "feeling more" (distress) more often since finishing work a month ago (this is a week or 2 before reducing medication dosage, i note). I am a lot less tired - no longer continually exhausted. Which is good physically... but i think mentally this is contributing to my increased depression and thoughts. When i was exhausted, i was more disconnected to emotion because i was too tired to feel (until it got too bad and then yep those nights still happened), more apathetic. I notice i still get this way in the afternoon after a distressing morning - just before i can fall asleep after crying myself to fatigue. But now my brain not only has energy to think and feel... it also has time unoccupied mentally. The downside of being an intellectual and analytical brain is it is "always on" unless exhausted. Yes i can meditate/mindful rest, which i do when feeling stressed or angry, etc. But i do not enjoy it and i cannot spend a whole day in that state. Hence i try to do my painting, or go to coffee with friends, or support people on the forum -- keeps my brain a little active/distracted. But i have to be very careful with the physical energy though, because the fatigue has been such a trigger the past 12 months and if i go out to do things it really kicks in after. I do want/plan to start doing pool-based walking again, and i can do s short time as i need to start with. But it is a big effort for me to go there, swimmers, wet, shower, dry, go home, wash swimmers... it is exhausting. And i dont feel mentally better for it. But i know it is good for my knees and lower back pain, because i did it in the past.

I just remembered my Auslan online study access opened today. So i can absorb myself into that now which will help having 1 more thing to do. Sorry guys, means i will be on forum less though 😅 until i get bored of it or finish it (it is self-paced within the timeframes of each term/module). I usually complete work/study a lot faster than most. I did about 70% of a 1-year diploma in 3 months once 😅 - whilst still having a lot of social things and working 1 day/wk lol. So im not worried about keeping up with the workload for it lol.

Ok, im gonna head home (friends finished coffee), and try to remember to login to the coursework after i feel my pups. They will be hungry because i usually have fed them 30min ago

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Thank you for your thoughtful post @AlwaysMyself . I was really pleased to be reading all the things you are doing and the courage you are showing in giving things another go even if it didn't go so well the first time.

I tend to feel that if something doesn't work the first time, it may mean it wasn't the right time - not because 'it doesn't work'.

I really appreciate you sharing your self-care with us. I'm mindful things are not always the best, but just being able to connect with things are going well and not so well, makes the relationship authentic.

Keep being you @AlwaysMyself

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Hiya @AlwaysMyself been (very slowly 😅) catching up on what you've shared over the last little while.

Wanted to say that I totally feel you regarding these gaps you've identified in the types of available mental health supports - I think there is definitely a need for more readily available adhoc, non-crisis supports, especially at night and on weekends. I think those are the times when we are more likely to spiral, sitting alone with our thoughts. Alas, as with most things, I reckon it's mainly to do with funding, and since overnight/weekend staffing costs more, naturally it follows that there's fewer services available during those times. I also really wish there was more outreach support available - because sometimes, just having someone there to sit with us through the worst of it is all we really need.

So yeah, wanted to just say that it is so valid to be feeling disappointed, let down, forgotten about. I know it won't take the sting away from the pain of feeling like you're not worth the time or the care, but perhaps knowing that those of us on the other side of the coin have similar gripes about the gaps, can offer some small solace.


@AlwaysMyself wrote:

I was taught via CBT to not act on my emotions (first 5 years of treatment). To think. To analyse multiple possible perspectives. To consider that its "just my depression" and do "what i should do" instead. I suspect this contributed to my emotional detachment and in turn prolonged / more severe anhedonia.


This caught my eye. I think you might be onto something - 'over-intellectualising' is something I have been working on myself, as it has contributed to experiences of trying to rationalise my emotions before I've actually given myself a chance to feel them, which can result in minimising them or repressing them. Something that was a turning point for me was when I was discussing with my psych about how easily and regularly I find myself in tears. I was talking about how much difficulty I had regulating those emotions and she said to me, 'Oh no, don't you see? Crying is how you regulate!'

Since then I've been exploring alternative viewpoints around 'regulating' and similar topics, found some super interesting folks on Instagram to follow, somatic healers and CPTSD therapists, as well as those interested in decolonising, collective trauma, indigenous and spiritual healing practices, stuff like that. I have found it really helpful in being able to view my experiences through a lens that is not the dominant narrative. Let me know if you're interested and I can share a few of the profiles I follow 😉

Appreciate you sharing your journey, I really do. Sending you some gentle hugs 💜

⸜(。˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝♡

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@Jynx very much agree that allowing oneself to cry is something i believe is healthy; a way of processing the feeling and not pushing it aside / bottling it for later (repressing is a good word for that, yes, thank you) or minimising it. Its nice to know I'm not alone in feeling that the "always immediately distract" isnt always the best thing in the long term. But its finding that space to be able to sit and cry to allow myself to express the pain passively whilst also doing something (like my painting) to try to prevent the thinking side from kicking in along with the emotion - because i think thats the combo that spirals. Thoughts can be acknowledged and put aside. Feelings can be tears. But both together... thats tough because they unfortunately my thoughts are too logical and thought through. Thats when i need external support. Just making this realisation now that it is the combo that is the problematic factor... 🤔

This morning was one of those feelings plus additional stress days. But talking to the MH intake sorta switched it being easily overwhelmed by any tiny stressor back to the "i feel low, but i am in control and can mask if needed" socially acceptable range. I've noticed physically talking about it to someone (who feels warm) helps process it out. Typing however, or writing, or talking to my dog doesn't.

Its really interesting the difference in ... mannerisms? Or ... rapport with different health/MH workers.

Just over these last 4 days ive noticed such a range. The UCC nurse (non-MH) was good, empathetic, related her own acknowledgement of limitations (similar to what you say, and what ive also said many times myself also). The ED triage was... fine but not comforting. The ED nurse was a bit better. The ED doc was... listening but non responsive i guess. Not warm. The MH Nurse was good, empathetic and also very much acknowledging the gaps and unfortunately logical nature of my thoughts.

There were 2 MH clinicians today (one new staff) - the not-new staff was "saying all the right things" but it did not feel warm - it felt scripted (even if they meant it, im sure). The new staff member - she was warm, she was real, she noted herself that from what i was saying i was demonstrating a lot of coping mechanisms and insight and how a rational brain doesnt take the pain away. I liked her. It felt so different having both of them in the same room, same conversation, same job role.... and yet soo different. One i *felt* understood, the other i just *knew* was listening (but didnt feel it).

That element of "being real" and having intuition and not having a "professional wall" or script of "pat responses" is such a difference.

I bet a few others can relate to this contrast between authentic and rote clinicians/supports?

@Cuddlebear @Shaz51 @Chasingsunsets @Flutterbug9

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Oh, and yes - always worth sharing links/ideas @Jynx . Never any harm in it. If it clicks - great! If it doesn't, thats OK too - no harm done.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@Cuddlebear @Flutterbug9 @Chasingsunsets @MissGremlin

Just got the call back from the Medicare MH centre with their recommended things available for me. At least they admit that unfortunately there is no other place I can drop-in when I am feeling distressed except for the safe haven (which is only 3pm-10pm 5 days a week), but have 2 avenues for short-term peer support connection building perhaps.

One is their own social peer support group, which is a 6 week thing. They will put my name on the list for next month. I would miss 1 week due to my planned roadtrip in early march, but anything is better than nothing. And if I click with someone there socially maybe I can stay in touch, because it is my local area centre (rather than the city-centre one, which used to be the only one in the region).

The other group is quite unexpected to me, and I am not 100% on it. But if it fits around my timetable and isn't too difficult to get to, then perhaps. I'm not sure what day it runs on though, and they haven't been able to find out more details because the organisation/program is closed until the 2nd Feb. I can call them then to find out.

It's a psychology-run "body acceptance" program for people with long-term/chronic physical conditions that affect their wellbeing/life. From reading the webpage on the program it sounds a bit aimed at how people's self-image or self-acceptance of their body may be difficult due to the limitations/conditions. I don't resonate with that, but they think it might be a good thing to meet some others who have chronic pain/illness that impacts their MH (like my chronic pain & fatigue does). I will consider it. It is 12-week, so at least it goes a little longer than the other supports, and thus brings closer to the April date also.

I am glad they are not just trying to recommend the things that really are not suitable, like they did last year (presumably because there was nothing else & they don't want to say that). I do wonder whether or not both of these programs were available 18 months ago. If they had been, they would have been very good supports back then -- especially the chronic pain psychology group, because 12 months ago and prior my pain was a big contributing factor -- hence why I have since been spending $$$ on pain-management things.

Even though there is no support for when I am in distress outside of the safe haven hours, I am not feeling emotionally reactive to this news today. This is a good thing. Today my mood is in the neutral (which for me is "as good as it gets") state, where I can cope with this type of information and not feel distressed by it. I think this is the first time since last Friday afternoon that I have felt this good-neutral state.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Hello @AlwaysMyself, it's frustrating that there's no other option for a drop-in place but I'm really glad there's a couple of opportunities for short term support.

Hoping you can get into both of the programs and that you find them helpful even if it's just getting through until the start date of the trial you are doing.

I'm glad you are feeling neutral today, hope that continues or even gets better from there sweet ❤️

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

From reading the webpage on the program it sounds a bit aimed at how people's self-image or self-acceptance of their body may be difficult due to the limitations/conditions.

-- they are @AlwaysMyself , aimed to how you feel about yourself through illnesses and chronic pains , they may have helpful hints to help you get through

Hello @MissGremlin

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself In hospital, it was a pleasant, non pressure experience. Questions around clarifying the reason etc were same casual tone as when taking my obs. Tones changed to honest interest and intrigue about the bear on my bed plus activity I was doing.

for me, it’s about keeping nails short, clean and no rough edges. Last resort, gloves. Keeping my hands busy. All about distractions if am aware what I’m doing (quite often I’m not which then means ‘after the fact care’…. If aware, ice pack (is 4 in freezer all the time) plus distractions. Need to remember I’m have issues getting things to heal. ‘Triggers’ - general itch, thoughts and memories when disassociating, general day dreaming, flashbacks triggered from watching things (one reason I hardly watch TV).

my thoughts similar to those of Shaz. I’m aware some pain management clinics, as example, use medication for pain relief while others run programs which focus on non medicinal ways to help cope with chronic pain. I’d encourage you to think about giving it a try, worst case scenario you see no improvement. On reverse side, may get benefits. No harm in trying

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