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Managing thoughts of suicide & self-harm

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I figure it's better to introduce my challenges here than in a welcome. Hopefully only people willing to hear about SI will venture here.

TW: Suicidal Ideation

Content/trigger warning

I've had thoughts of suicide since I was 12. I don't remember much of life before this time. I'm aware there are times that I haven't though as much about suicide as others, but it's always been a "yes please, that would be my preference" even during the better times.

Why am I still alive then? For two reasons:

- the emotional pain it would cause to very close family.

- the physical pain of accessible methods, and the risks of non-fatal attempts causing lifelong physical impairments.

How do I keep myself going all these years?

By focusing on how I can benefit other people's lives instead. If I'm going to put up with life, it may as well be beneficial to someone.

And to help me keep life less monotonous I look for 'interesting' things - quirky people, exploring foreign countries/cultures, trying new foods (even if i dont think I'll like them). I've never been a status-quo person.

I explain to MH supports that when life is not distressing I can carry on without seriously considering suicide as a possible option. I can say "hello there thought, I hear you but I have chosen not to act on it, things are OK". But when something sets things off kilter, its a pretty quick track back to "why am I still doing this? Do I really still have the same commitment to living? And why, for whom? Why can't I be permitted to die if that's what I want for myself?"

With decades of this under my belt, I have the ability to sit with feelings of extreme distress. And the courage to text or call someone if I need to - and I'm getting a little better at doing this *before* it gets too extreme, but I still hesitate because I don't want to burden others and the frequency of it happening during those unbalanced times is too often. I've persuaded myself a few times recently to instead call a crisis line, but waiting 30-45min in a queue can sometimes exacerbate the thoughts, and sometimes the calls might help dissipate the feelings (if i called early enough) but other times I feel worse after because of course they're going to try to give some positive outlook for the future, but it grates on me because deep down I dont want a future at all. Its actually refreshing when someone acknowledges that not liking/wanting life is OK - and instead just tries to look at how to rebalance the scales to help me cope with continuing to live despite not wanting to.

I'm not sure how un/common my way of thinking is. So much about suicide prevention is focused on short-term distress tolerance or "fixable" problems (eg situations).

What do I need from the community here...?

To be heard? To know if anyone else out there has a long enduring preference to die even when they aren't feeling active distress? And if so, has anything helped them longterm to shift that thinking?

If anyone knows of any practitioners who *specialise* in chronic SI since a young age, I'd really love to know who (if there is a way someone is allowed to??). I've tried Google searching and using online psych directories and reading bio's. I've seen many psychologists and psychiatrists in the past who haven't been able to help me shift this (even if theyve helped in other ways).

I do wonder if my neural networks for positive emotional may not have fully developed or may have atrophied due to the young age and length of time. I genuinely do not know what being happy feels like, I do not have any memory that I recall as being "happy" or joy, and I suspect this makes recovery much harder.

Im ok at the moment. Im safe. But it is exhausting.

Apologies this post is quite a bit too long.

1604 replies

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In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

my jaw literally dropped when i saw those, they literally look like figurines from the store - SO GOOD!! @AlwaysMyself i can see you selling game sets for sure

seeing these makes me wish i knew how to play DnD!!!

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Thanks @Till23 . I push myself to keep engaged and "functioning" (sound familiar? 😉) but it doesn't mean i feel anything positive inside, i just do it anyway. Unfortunately this leads me to fatigue and burnout because most things are a constant effort and chore. It doesnt "look" like i am apathetic, just as it doesnt "look" like i am depressed, outwardly because i keep "doing" what makes me "functional" externally as much as possible. However inwardly it is exhausting, discouraging, and has lead to a lack of hope.

Im still reading through the article @AuntGlow posted, but i really resonated with how it described this exact problem with Behavioural Activation techniques for severe anhedonia. Although in my case I have been able to keep doing the behaviours, but I dont get the reward - as it notes is the case often - and how discouraging that is.

I guess the good thing @AuntGlow is that I know i can already do "body scans" to checkin with myself on how i am feeling, if/where i have tension (or pain), etc. I can recognise basic things like hunger, thirst, mental-boredom, muscular fatigue, mental fatigue, emotional fatigue, etc. So that is a start on their suggested groundwork. Still reading the rest.

@Till23 @ These figures post this afternoon are from many years ago (in the case of the boardgame) or from earlier in the year / last year

The alignate mould was done around premade figures -- the plastic log and also some tiny plastic campfires.

I let the resin cure for 48 hours before demoulding. The ones in silicone were not tacky, but interestingly the one in resin where it was in direct contact with the alginate was still tacky, but after another 24 hours open to the air it was not.

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning


@Cuddlebear wrote:

@AuntGlow Hello lovely how are you? Thank you so much for what you’ve written.

I think I really need to have connection with people. Online things to explore would be helpful for me. I’m not sure what is available and trying to find things online has been a nightmare.

Being able to reach out to people to chat here too is really good.

The symptoms are a teeny tiny bit better but still acute. Most of the time I’m getting through minute by minute.


Hello @Cuddlebear 🫶

Okay, maybe we can look at some ways you can connect with others online? Would you want to participate in groups or explore a hobby with likeminded people?

I understand getting through minute by minute... what would you like to do this minute? 🥰

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Coming back to our last conversation @AlwaysMyself! How are you feeling about having finished work?! I can imagine it would be such a weight lifted for you. 🥰

Your mum being a registered psych is amazing! Do you find her support helpful? What has she shared about anhedonia?

Your goals sound very achievable, and with more space to dedicate to them, I can see things really shifting for you.

The support group sounds really wholesome. 🥹

I love how creative you are!! I want to make myself do a vision board and buy some pictures off Etsy to print and put more wall art around my apartment...

@Bow is really good with this stuff too, she sells her art at markets!

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Yes @AlwaysMyself there definitely is a familiarity with pushing to keep engaged and functioning. I also understand masking depression, anhedonia and apathy. You do a very good job of masking is what I should have said then.

You do very well though considering you also have CFS/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis. I am sure it takes a lot of inner strength to keep doing things that seem not to give you joy but also cause fatigue. Do you feel a bit of a good feeling that you have been successful with your crafts - I think you have done really well.

Yes some of the things in the blog AuntGlow posted resonated with me as well.

I couldn't see the resin figurine photos last night, but looking at them today and as I said they are excellent. I am sure you could sell them to DnD fans.

Your previous ones and your scene are also excellent.

That's why I asked about the curing time because you seem to have de-moulded then quickly. Mine, which was bigger did not fully cure for a few days. You may have used different resin though.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

It does feel a little lighter, @AuntGlow , a bit of relief at the thought that I don't have to get up early in the mornings (unless I book an early appointment/helper), and I am hopeful that I will feel less tired now that I don't have to go to work 3 days a week. I think because it is close to christmas, when people often take time off, it doesn't really feel much different yet - but I think it will in January when others are returning to work and I'm not.

My mum has been a great support since she found out that I was depressed and suicidal (which was when I was 13 that she was told, it was a few years after onset). Most of the time her support is helpful - but sometimes it can be frustrating if I feel like our conversation goes in a circle 😅 - but it's always well-intent. I think it is likely a large part of why I have been "high functioning" outwards because I have had her encouragement and support to continue to engage in activities, challenge moods & thoughts, etc etc since I was young - I don't think falling into a dark hole was ever an option, as she would always manage to persuade me to get in the car and we would go for a drive or a coffee-outing or something to get a change of scenery or distraction. Things I would not have been able (or willing perhaps) to do if I were alone, and things that I suspect a lot of parents with teenagers either wouldn't know to do or wouldn't realise how important it is to prioritise that type of intervention. It also meant that I had professional counselling support throughout my teenage years as she would prioritise paying for it.

Her perspective on my anhedonia is similar to her perspective on my depression in general (which makes sense, since anhedonia is my main problematic symptom from it, unless one counts my chronic fatigue also). She has theories - but of course we cannot know. She suspects that there is a neurological lack of activity/stimulation factor - whether it is due to stress whilst I was a foetus, or due to early trauma and depression preventing proper neural pathway formation as a young child. She suspects that the trauma may have a role to play in it, even beyond the neural pathway activation perspective - but also acknowledges that I somehow don't seem to have PTSD or anxiety (which of course is common post-trauma), but that sort of aligns with a dampened system overall I guess?

We suspect that a compounding factor is also the length of time, and that because of the young age onset, I have no memory of "happiness" or enoying/wanting life, and whilst I cognitively understand the concepts I have no experiential knowledge/memory of it to try to recall or 'anchor'. Which in turn does not help for having hope for what life could be in the future 😅. It's sort of like someone promising you will love something that you have never tried -- you just have to trust that they know you will, because you cannot judge for yourself.

If you are interested to know a bit more about the support group (for your own info or to share with others), have an offline chat to @Ru-bee, they know which one it is (loosely speaking). I don't mind if they pass that info on.

Oh, with regard to walk decal stickers... I know a lot of SANE are in Melbourne. I learned yesterday that Melbourne City library has a 'makerspace' that can be used for free -- including 3D printers, wood burners, vinyl cutter... https://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/makerspaces

So if there is a single-colour image you want as a wall decal, you can cut it there! Apparently they supply the material (e.g. vinyl, 3d filament) too for a number of things too. (Maybe this year I will even check out my semi-local makerspace if there are machines they have that I want to test out...)

Would be interested to hear your experience selling at markets @Bow. I always fear that one may sit there all day and not sell anything, or maybe even only sell just enough to cover the cost of the stall itself. Arts & crafts cost a lot to hand-make, and are easily out-priced by factory-made imports. Would be great to hear from someone who actually does have a stall and sells! 😃

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Hi @AlwaysMyself

I’ve been doing markets for a couple of years selling my art…. And been helping my mum for many years before that as she has a small business. I’ve just stolen one of her tables for my art work.

we do 2 regular markets each month, one is pretty big and attendance is good. The other is smaller. I’ll be honest in saying that you really can’t call it. Sometimes we have a really good day and it’s heaps worth it. Sometimes I do really well and mum not so and vise versa. I guess anything over your stall fee is a win. But days are pretty exhausting. We leave just after 6am and then home around 2. So if you’re only just covering your fees it’s fairly disappointing.

Then you gotta factor in all your costs. Marquee and weights, tables and whatever displays you need. Insurance. You really need a square reader (Eftpos machine) now days cause so many people don’t carry cash.

We did a couple of extra Christmas markets this year too. Their stall fees were heaps more than our usual ones and both were a flop. But ya live and ya learn!

and yep ya get bored! lol

happy to answer any other questions

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@Till23 I should have an honourary Masters or PhD in 'emotional masking' 🤣. I can externally-stablise my appearance from distressed crying to a stable face that can pass as "OK" at work within 1-2 minutes. 😅 (How long I can keep it stable depends on if there was an acute trigger). I get the impression you are also a world-class 'masker'. 🏆

The instructions on the resin we used said it would cure in 24-48 hours. It also said to only pour it in layers of 20mm (2cm) - which wasn't a problem because out things weren't bigger than that. But if doing thicker things, it needed 45min to "gum stage" between layers. This is the one we tested out: https://www.bunnings.com.au/protite-500ml-clear-casting-starting-kit_p0347811

I find craft-making 'interesting' and 'useful', and when I see that what I have done is good quality it feels... solid.

It's sort of a neutral feeling, but with acknowledgement/appreciation that it was skilled/good. I guess similar to at work when I do a complex task that others can't work out. Although when I do something for someone, that's when there can be a slight positive feeling I guess - because I like helping people or giving them something that makes them smile / brightens their day -- but even then a lot of that is trapped in my cognitive thought that it is a positive and good thing, but filters much less into my emotional feelings.

@AuntGlow @rav3n @Jynx (for your interest/background/info re: discussions on motivation, burnout, anhedonia, etc etc)

This is why I think my depression is quite abnormal. I like myself. I know I have skills and can do good things (I also know I have weaknesses and things I am not skilled at too though! I think I have a realistic and healthy perspective there). I generally don't have negative self-talk or self-blaming (if I do, it's almost always after someone has misunderstood/misinterpreted or chosen to manipulate into something they can claim as a personal conflict cause; I then self-doubt if I can even tell when I am acting against my core values and seek external perspectives to review). I don't have anxiety. Usually I am not in distress and can keep myself calm/grounded and a high degree of self-control for safety. However, when I am not tired or distracted, I do have a persistent feeling of sadness, and I almost-always have a high degree of anhedonia and low motivation (for myself; usually I am motivated by doing things for others or external factors), and have had SI since the onset of my depression at a pre-teen age.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AuntGlow another perhaps "interesting" note with regard to my anhedonia, my consumptive anhedonia is worse than my expectation anhedonia.

I can often "think" ... "it would be nice to invite xxx over" or "to do xxx craft/baking".

But when i am doing it i don't feel pleasure - i feel tiredness or nothing or social-irritability. Mostly exhaustion. But not positive feeling, even though i might "like the idea" of it.

From reading the article so far, it sounds like this is not common?

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@Cuddlebear totoro painting step 1 time?

It appears i only have 1 tube of grey paint, and its quite dark - so when i go to the shops (maybe this afternoon?) I will buy some lighter shades - because i dont want to have to mix my own, since i will need to use a lot of it and for re-coating and touch ups i want the exact same shade which i find very difficult to remix lol.

In the past i guess i have used only small amounts so i have mixed it myself.

Acrylic paint always dries a shade darker than it looks when wet. I learnt this as a child painting plasters. So i recommend we err on the side of a shade lighter than we think.

I know you have vision impairment, but i dont think i have asked before whether or not if affects your ability to distinguish colours? (Within your field of view)

I had a friend when i was a teenager who could only see "shadow" like vision at all - but it was fascinating because if she held bright-mid colours up really close (usually clothing) she could often tell whether is was a green vs a red vs a purple/blue! I learned to never assume what someone can or cannot see 😊🥰.

Luckily for me, my local shopping centre where i go to have coffee with my retired-friends has a Kaisercraft store and they have a great range of paint colour and i am happy to pay their prices for specific shades and their quality. Often they have discounts when you buy multiple tubes of paint too.

Wow! Surprisingly they only sell 1 shade of grey?!

https://www.kaisercraft.com.au/products/kaisercolour-acrylic-craft-paint-cool-grey-1?_pos=1&_sid=1f5f53755&_ss=r&_fid=5f690d65c

But it might be ok.

Or maybe i can buy an air-tight empty paint tube to store my own mixture in..? Ive tried it before with storing them in hard plastic screw-shut containers and they still dried up quicker than i liked. Paint tubes last for decades (literally! Some of mine i use were purchased/opened in 2003!)

If you dont feel up to replying or engaging today that is 100% fine. Absolutely no pressure.

But if it brings a tiny spark of interest or joy (either from the activity or from the shared connection) then that is a win also. 🥰

Would you prefer to keep this painting chat here? Or separate it out into a Social thread?

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