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Managing thoughts of suicide & self-harm

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I figure it's better to introduce my challenges here than in a welcome. Hopefully only people willing to hear about SI will venture here.

TW: Suicidal Ideation

Content/trigger warning

I've had thoughts of suicide since I was 12. I don't remember much of life before this time. I'm aware there are times that I haven't though as much about suicide as others, but it's always been a "yes please, that would be my preference" even during the better times.

Why am I still alive then? For two reasons:

- the emotional pain it would cause to very close family.

- the physical pain of accessible methods, and the risks of non-fatal attempts causing lifelong physical impairments.

How do I keep myself going all these years?

By focusing on how I can benefit other people's lives instead. If I'm going to put up with life, it may as well be beneficial to someone.

And to help me keep life less monotonous I look for 'interesting' things - quirky people, exploring foreign countries/cultures, trying new foods (even if i dont think I'll like them). I've never been a status-quo person.

I explain to MH supports that when life is not distressing I can carry on without seriously considering suicide as a possible option. I can say "hello there thought, I hear you but I have chosen not to act on it, things are OK". But when something sets things off kilter, its a pretty quick track back to "why am I still doing this? Do I really still have the same commitment to living? And why, for whom? Why can't I be permitted to die if that's what I want for myself?"

With decades of this under my belt, I have the ability to sit with feelings of extreme distress. And the courage to text or call someone if I need to - and I'm getting a little better at doing this *before* it gets too extreme, but I still hesitate because I don't want to burden others and the frequency of it happening during those unbalanced times is too often. I've persuaded myself a few times recently to instead call a crisis line, but waiting 30-45min in a queue can sometimes exacerbate the thoughts, and sometimes the calls might help dissipate the feelings (if i called early enough) but other times I feel worse after because of course they're going to try to give some positive outlook for the future, but it grates on me because deep down I dont want a future at all. Its actually refreshing when someone acknowledges that not liking/wanting life is OK - and instead just tries to look at how to rebalance the scales to help me cope with continuing to live despite not wanting to.

I'm not sure how un/common my way of thinking is. So much about suicide prevention is focused on short-term distress tolerance or "fixable" problems (eg situations).

What do I need from the community here...?

To be heard? To know if anyone else out there has a long enduring preference to die even when they aren't feeling active distress? And if so, has anything helped them longterm to shift that thinking?

If anyone knows of any practitioners who *specialise* in chronic SI since a young age, I'd really love to know who (if there is a way someone is allowed to??). I've tried Google searching and using online psych directories and reading bio's. I've seen many psychologists and psychiatrists in the past who haven't been able to help me shift this (even if theyve helped in other ways).

I do wonder if my neural networks for positive emotional may not have fully developed or may have atrophied due to the young age and length of time. I genuinely do not know what being happy feels like, I do not have any memory that I recall as being "happy" or joy, and I suspect this makes recovery much harder.

Im ok at the moment. Im safe. But it is exhausting.

Apologies this post is quite a bit too long.

1603 replies

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In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Thanks @Cuddlebear , ypu have definitely understood well my options and dilemmas in the rrasons for & against. 😊

When I speak to my manager next week and find out how long of an extension she is thinking of I can also ask her how long until I need to let her know. I assume as long as I tell them with enough time to process any renewed contract before my current one ends that would be fine; that would give me 1-2 weeks (from next week) to think it over and decide.

I think if I don't want the permanent role, then I think I could ask for the extension to be only 1 or 2 days a week and I think they would accept (better than having no one!). But asking for even more reduced hours might be a negative against if I want the role permanently - because they might want at least 3 days per week. I am not sure how they would feel about the (possible) permanent role being split with me 1 day and another person the other 4 days -- i think it would also depend a lot on if they had any other candidate who wanted 4 day work week.

4 day work week is quite desired by a lot of people i work with, but i dont think any of them want the reduced pay lol. There is always talk of whether the government will roll out 4 days as fulltime hours in the future -- research supports it as just as productive but better for wellbeing, and some private orgs do it now (rare, but it happens!).

I am glad to not have to decide for another 2-3 weeks, but I dont want to make a rush decision then. I like to plan out my options and contingences lol.

When I try to "step back" from the emotional fear of leaving a secure job, I know I could get Peer Support work easily in my area. So many people with MH issues or also NDIS psycho-social support (I cant do physical care). Plus there is such a need for both MH and peer support in the Auslan-using Deaf community, so that people can communicate more easily with their providers and leads to better understanding and outcomes. I'd just have to be OK with the lower pay rate and the non-secure income, and if I did it through my own business/sole-trader (to get higher portion of the hourly rate) I would have to look into the admin side.

If I did MH Peer / Recovery Coach i would want to do it through an organisation for experience and support. But if I was just doing NDIS psycho-social and/or transport work then I could do that myself depending on how onerous the NDIS provider registration is. Or I could advertise freelance on something like Mabel. I have a friend who does social support / transport / shopping with people on NDIS so I could ask her about it. I have a friend who used to provide physical care through a big agency and she hated the agency admin rostering side of it and was not paid for her very many years of experience and ability to take on the difficult/complex clients. Not sure who the first friend does it through though. The Deaf community is small enough that I could be word of mouth and not an agency. But even more they need people to help with MH support in Auslan. I'd like the idea of being a co-fascilitater in a group that then was better able to cater for Auslan-users due to using native language. Its a big gap that our region has no practitioners who use the language.

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@Cuddlebear and I went through my photos on the train and have flagged almost 90 as my "favourites" 🤣. So now when I have internet wifi on my laptop and some time I can go through and choose a much smaller selection of photos to post to the forum 🤣.

Imagine the poor mods having to review and approve a post of 50 photos even! 🤣🤣🤣

I will try to only select a handful (unless people then ask for more lol). Load time of page for peolle also being a consideration.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself Hello lovely how are you? How’s Melbourne?

Yes once you meet with your manager you’ll have all the information you need to make an informed decision. I think lots of people especially women love to job share too so that is a real possibility.

If you don’t want the role permanent then 1 or 2 days could work well and as you said they would at least have someone experienced doing the role.

It is scary to leave a secure role. However, in all honesty there is genuine need for peer workers/mental health coaches. It’s also possible when working for an organisation to actually work from home doing mental health coaching. So that is an option too.

Being a sole trader isnt too hard. There’s some admin but it’s not huge it’s mainly GST but I’m not sure that peer support / mental health coach attracts GST. Also you’d need to keep notes after each appointment but they take about 15 minutes. 🙂 Registering as a sole trader is really easy and free! Yay! 🥳

It’s a huge benefit having Auslan. Massive opportunities there for sole trader or NDIS work through an organisation. 🙂

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself I’ve been enjoying the photos you put up on the new photo thread! That was a really good idea. 🙂

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Hello lovely @AlwaysMyself,

Would you feel comfortable sharing what comes to mind when you think of 'light and peace'? I am wondering if we can challenge this idea of 'responsible' a bit? 😉

Based on what you have shared, it sounds like time off and studying peer work would be a really wonderful way to refill your cup and also recover from burnout. (Because burnout is not only a matter of exhaustion, but also a result of disconnection from aligned activities.)

I know this conversation would be hard to have with your manager... when you consider talking to them, what is the best and worst outcome in your mind? 🫶

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I am glad you enjoyed the photos @Cuddlebear 😊 happy to upload you some more if you would enjoy. Hope they are a good distraction during your day.

I have a lot of photos from past holiday travels and also visits to the zoo too.

I used to work as a freelancer for a short time in the past. As you say, registering for sole trader or ABN is fairly easy in Australia. 😊

I think thought that I would probably have to get some type of insurance or something these days if I worked as a peer support worker as a sole trader? Unless there is an "umbrella company" provides that.along with a booking platform, etc.

I wouldn't earn enough to need to register for GST. I think the threshold is around $75k? Or it used to be 10 years ago lol. 😅

Probably something I should look into though, how feesible to do NDIS support under my own sole trader or better to do it through a company initially.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AuntGlow

"Light and peace" 🤔. Right now? Sleeping and not having to get up; having no responsibilities or demands on me or my time. 😅

Sounds pretty unrealistic though! Well, short-term is fine (like my 2 days in Melb this weekend - didnt have any responsibilities), but not longterm.

"Best and worse" outcome is a good question. I'm still trying to figure out / decide what I think "best" would be.

If it were reality aside:

- agreement for me to take 3-6 months off work (paid under personal & annual leave until all used up)

- without any expectation/pressure/obligation to return to the job if I did not feel it was what is best for me at the end of the time off.

But I don't feel this would be fair on the boss for me to (if offered) take the permanent role and then immediately take 3-6 month leave, and then decide to resign from the role.

So another possible good outcome could be if they could structure the role for me to work 1 day a week (and they could hire another person 4 days if they wanted). Then I could still get some income and also take some leave to recover, and would also give time for me to study peer work too if i want.

Worst case? If i decided i did want to apply for the permanent job, they may not select me if they know i am planning to take sick leave (or leave without pay) or if they know I want to reduce to 1 or 2 days a week only.

(If i decide i dont want to work in the industry still and want to resign, then it not a problem!)

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I'm heading to sleep as I have to work tomorrow, but before I do I'll take the time to give a bit of an update @AuntGlow @rav3n @Jynx @tyme. You may recall that my trip overseas was a "goal post" to reach, a way to keep hanging around. Now this has come to pass it plays on my mind a fair bit -- which I guess is why the next decisions around work are swirling so much.

I hope it's OK to post the below. But it's also OK if you wish to withhold the post from publishing, and just keep it for your own reference information in mod-purgatory.

"What now?" is of course the big question for myself. If I no longer find/experience joy and energy from travelling, then I have even less hope for finding things that do. The one thing that used to make me feel better. But on the other hand, perhaps it was more the case that in the past I travelled with friends (not my partner) and thus it was more lighthearted and fun? I hope this is the case. I can at least try to tell myself that I guess.

Content/trigger warning
Prefacing by saying I am safe. Whilst I have thoughts and desires, I am committed to giving recovery the best shot I can next year - and this means not acting on my thoughts/feelings.

As you know, if I cannot find some form of positive feeling in life then it will be very hard to continue long-term. I don't feel I am allowed to admit (other than to my counsellor) that my preference is to not continue. Everything is always aimed at prevention, rather than acceptance of and allowing a peaceful (non-painful, non-traumatic) passing and a process beforehand that would allow others to understand better and come to terms with a person's decision.

I think that prevention is really important for rash/crisis situations (which I guess is the bulk of cases). But I personally feel that if we, when not in acute distress, over a long period of time (years), consistently have a preference to pass, that it should be allowed. I know this concept will never be accepted except for terminal illnesses; and somehow that feels like a sharp pang to the heart.

I'm planning to give the start of the year the best shot I can - trying to recover from the burnout and trying to find the ability to experience positive emotions. I am still hoping to get into the clinical trial (now that I am at weight, or will be within a week or two - I haven't checked this week - I can proceed with the eligibility screening further), but of course there is 1/4 chance I would be in the full-treatment cohort (1/4 chance of not getting it at all). However I do not know when I would be lined up for even if eligible. I think March-ish. But if it is delayed another 3 months to mid-year (or if I am not eligible at all) ... I am honestly not sure if I want to wait that long. I know rationally people would say "3 months isn't long, especially compared to a permanent decision". But if my efforts from Jan-March to try to get back to a neutral-pain or positive feeling do not work, I'm not sure I'm prepared to wait. I don't want to keep kicking the can down the road making "reasons" for a new goalpost.

I really wish it was an accepted option in society, and could be peacefully and non-traumatically facilitated. 😢. It doesn't feel fair that I am not 'allowed' to make that decision for myself and be supported in it, and that everyone will try to prevent it.

And whilst I am prepared/agreed to keep living if I can find either a non-negative or a positive experience of life, it is hard when at heart I would still prefer to not exist. 😕 I can only hope that I can have a positive enough experience that my preference changes genuinely. But I've been waiting for that for nearly 25 years so far. I look back and I wish I had the 'strength' 20 years ago to end it. I know I'm not meant to admit that (socially), but it's the truth of what I feel. If I could go back and end it 20 years ago I would (don't worry, I don't have a time travel machine!).

I know these are concerning thoughts. I am not in any immediate danger. I have committed (to myself) to give time-off-work a try, and to give the clinical trial a try. And that won't be done before mid-year next year (7 months away). I am not a rash person - hence I have never been hospitalised.

I know you won't be allowed to agree with any of my thoughts/perspectives in the above content box (except for that prevention is important for rash/crisis, and that time-travelling machines don't currently exist lol), but I think it is healthy for me to verbally (textually?) express those thoughts/feelings. My counsellor knows, but we don't have a solution other than to take time off next year and see.

I realise it has now been 12 months of these thoughts, without perhaps more than a week (at the very most) at a time of not having them. I think this is the longest continual period of time since I was a teenager. And it's the 3rd 'episode' of worsening of these thoughts in the past 3 years also (the other 2 lasting at least a few months each also). But I had a medication review at the start of the year and the psychiatrist thought the medication I am on would be the best option still. Last time I saw my GP I told him I was still having these thoughts, I more or less got an "I can see that it's hard. You'll be ok. See you next time." Unfortunately that fuels an emotional reaction in me that then says it wants to "show them" 😂 and act upon it so they have to answer to an investigation into it -- but alas I am controlled and not rash and I know it would not be helpful. I am not a person who "acts out" even if I feel like wanting to. But I do wish I would share to them how it makes me feel when I hear what I expect is meant to be reassuring-placating, but feels dismissing (but how to do this without coming across as attention-seeking??). Or with situations at work (former role) that are unfair/unjust and I feel like acting-out to make a statement about how it feels to be treated that way. I sometimes wonder how common it is to have these feelings/thoughts -- do most people have them and like myself just don't act on them?

Thank you for your ongoing support. I guess this is also background to how things are behind the scenes and the reasons feeding into my various options for work / time of work next year. I realise people often assume my thoughts have gone away if I don't mention them, as I am often able to separate how I present from other thoughts.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Hey @AlwaysMyself I just wanted to let you know that I hear you, it's really hard to find the place for these conversations and I think that would be incredibly hard, especially as I can hear this is something that you've put a lot of thought into. In saying that, it is a bit tricky having these conversations here on the forums, due to the recovery-focus of SANE's services. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your honesty and the courage that it would have taken to share these thoughts and opinions in such an open way.

Thank you for also being so clear about your intentions and goals for next year. It can be really helpful to have that extra context and I hope the forums can continue to be here and support you in those goals

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

hey @AlwaysMyself thank you for sharing this with us. i appreciate your honesty and vulnerability 💙

i can absolutely see how your GP's response can still feel pretty dismissive, even if it wasn't their intention. it sounds like you want to feel heard, and not have your perspective be judged by professionals/others - which to me, sounds like a fair thing to ask from your supports. like Ru-bee mentioned, SANE forums is a recovery-oriented space so unfortunately, we are a bit limited in this discussion - we still do really respect and value what you've shared.

also, i'm curious to know, did you feel like you experienced joy and/or energy from this trip? i know you shared some pretty cool pics and said you had a nice time, but i guess having a nice time can mean a lot of different things hey.
i have my fingers crossed the clinical trial goes on in your favour!!

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