Tillogram

Hi my dear @Till23 ,

Thank you for taking the time to post even though I know you have a lot going on.

I also don't expect an immediate response.

I totally agree that it's about putting one foot in front of the other for now. You can only do what you can do.

At least you have a few things to focus on in terms of your training.

I hope things improve for you and you get back to the place you want to be.

Things have been a little tumultuous on my side, but like what you mentioned in your previous post, it's about just accepthing the things I cannot change, and working to move on.

Take care.

I'll wait to hear from you.

@Till23 , letting you know that I am thinking of you and walking with you my awesome friend 🧡

Hi @AlwaysMyself, I hope you are well.. I hope preparations for the trial are going well.. I haven’t been on the forums hardly at all,, so I’m not really across what is happening with people.. I think you might have been away for a little while..

I have a lot of things happening.

You never know what’s really happening for other people.

.

Anyhow, I know I am in a much better position than other people, so I should keep my own counsel.

I haven’t been on forums much, also because, I think I feel I can’t contribute much, because I feel so down, or anxious I’ll say the wrong thing. I feel “bad” that I am not able to support or engage with people I have come to know, when I previously would have interacted and tried to support them.

@tyme @Shaz51 I hope both of you are well, although I know both of you have a lot happening in your lives as well.

I have to go away for a few days, so I might not respond for awhile

@Till23 i will reply tomorrow 😊 because i want to. Ive come to realise that talking MH with people is a "special interest" (as in autistic monotropic and adhd hyperfocus) trait i have. Not sure if that helps you feel more comfortable with why i like to help and enage with people on the forums *even if* they dont have the capacity to reciprocate... throwing it out there in case it does help give explanation context to why i love to connect over helping others with MH 🥰. Because it really is the *opposite* of a burden!

Take care @Till23 . We'll see you when you get back.

Hi @Till23 , as always with me - read what you wish to, ignore what you don't want to read, and never feel any pressure to reply unless you genuinely want to. 😊 Please do let me know if anything I say upsets you though, because if it accidentally did I'd always want to know so that I could apologise / explain where I was coming from 😘.

I see reference to ADHD & ASD, but not from your own post. I hope it's OK to put a quick comment on this topic still.

Knowing/realising that I am almost certainly autistic is really relieving. It helps me understand why I get so moody/severe and tired in certain situations, why i have strong emotional barriers to ideas that I KNOW are logically and want so much to not feel such a strong resistance to... It makes sense why my way of thinking / problem-solving causes some others to get annoyed and angry at me. Potentially why people get angry when I don't say/respond about something because I haven't realised I was meant to - but also don't blame myself for it, because I know I haven't done anything wrong - but now I understand that they see the social thing differently which is why they placed an unspoken expectation (and yes - I still think that's their emotional problem to deal with if they feel angry, because I have not been rude/impolite/etc. Especially if the person knows me and knows I have autistic-thought-patterns.)

Oh... and why I "fail" ASD & ADHD screening questionnaires 🤣🤣 and only get "maybe"/sub-clinical results. I read them waayyy too literally and don't take into about how I feel, only what I literally do. 😂

I feel like these screeners are ironically not written for autistics! But now that I'm aware of how I am reading them, I am catching myself in my thoughts whenever I say "... because ..." <-- red flag for me that I have a masking/modification for that trait! 😂 It is really funny to me now.

... and well.. I like you as a person and relate to a lot of your experiences over the time I've known you.
and well ... I tend to like autistic people most. (Which doesn't mean all my friends are autistic, but it can lend some extra weight to any self-suspicions a person may have. "Peer reviewed".)

Also - articles I found really interesting but also "obvious". Wondering if it might click with you too.

TW: SI - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10088461/
( @AuntGlow @tyme @Jynx maybe interested read if not already aware?)

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The main contribution of this study is in drawing attention to the significantly increased risk of suicidal ideation faced by children with exceptional cognitive ability and autism. Our analyses demonstrate that increasing IQ switches from a protective factor in non-autistic individuals to a risk factor for suicidal ideation in autistic youth.

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@Till23 wrote:

It seems from all of these avenues, that the underlying problem for my MH issues is my thinking to a major degree, if I thought differently I wouldn’t have any MH issues, even things like nightmares. Which is the underpinning theory of many/most talk therapies. I have tried to think positively about myself. I try to notice if a thought is unhelpful and I try to ignore it. It seems faking positive thoughts doesn’t work.

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See.. this also strikes me as highly interesting. "If I thought differently I wouldn't have any MH issues".
I guess most people are this way with depression (unless there is a biological-chemical imbalance?) -- but often people may not be consciously processing & realising what their underlying thoughts/beliefs are which are contributing. I think that's where a lot of talk-therapy is aimed, as you say.

I'm really curious what you see as your "faking positive thoughts".

Do you genuinely believe what you tell yourself in the positive self talk?

For example, sometimes I may have a thought that "I can't do this; it's too hard." But I catch myself and ask myself if it really is too hard that I can't do it, or whether I just feed overwhelmed/tired/etc and need to take a break first or so only a tiny step for now, etc etc. In this case, I do believe that I am capable but just currently overwhelmed and best to take a break and come back later when I'm not overwhelmed! So in this situation, it's not "fake" positive thoughts and it helps me. But if I genuinely didn't think it was something I could do? Then of course telling myself I can would be "fake" and make me feel even worse!

A different example, I might catch myself thinking "life is pointless". So I will try to counter it with "but you can make life easier/better for others / help others". This second self-talk is in line with my core values, it is authentic. However, it actually doesn't address the core issue of my initial thought - which is existential and also impacted by feeling that every day is exhausting and often painful/disheartening/"different". So.. this positive self-talk thinking actually doesn't help me at all with feeling better. It helps me know what to do with my life, but it doesn't make me want life.

And I also relate this to if someone was trying to tell themselves "I like life" when actually they really don't like life (for whatever reason - some which can be changeable once aware of them).. It's like telling myself "I like chilli" -- I really don't, and no amount of telling myself I do will ever change that. 🤣. The stinging sensation in my mouth would have to stop for me to be able to even slightly like chilli !! .. and I think life can be like that too?

Not sure how this sits with you?

It's totally OK if it all sounds foreign and like I'm living in a totally different world.

But it's also OK if it does make sense to you.

PS - Venting can be really helpful and healthy for MH. But yes it can be careful distinction between venting (healthy) and rumination (negative) -- but if it helps you feel better after then it's healthy I think.

@Till23

Trial update - good news. Last week I was formally told I have passed all my medical-risk (physical & psychiatric) assessments, and can do the trial. Just need my final tests to prove I have not used drugs or currently pregnant. I'm currently travelling, so will do this when I get back later this coming week.

I also really liked the psychiatrist who will be my lead therapist for it. Reflecting on why, I realised that he asked me and did not assume how I felt/saw things. And also when I gave "enough detail" or went a bit off-track he would let me know directly (so that we could keep on-time) -- not in a negative or judgement way, just in a "that's great - that's what I needed to know. I'd love to know more (and we will get to chat more during the trial), but now i need to ask about ... " I really liked the direct guidance!

I have been to psychiatrists in the past and not felt that sense of understanding at all. But I guess he does have an interest in neurodiverse-ADHD so he is very used to people who get side-tracked and keeping them on-track during ADHD assessments.

@Till23 Is there anything you would LIKE to do purely for yourself? No obligation to, "just because I'm interested/curious to" sort of thing (or "enjoy", if that is something you can feel).

It's also OK if you can't.

Oh - PS, I'm now off my anti-depressant medication (because of the trial needing it). I am so glad I am because I don't feel any mood-worse, although I do feel more easily frustrated and sensory-overwhelmed, but guess what? I can feel a bit excited/motivated for some small things! Like getting to chat to the therapists in the trial, or getting to come on here and write to you/others when I'm not exhausted. I don't feel it all the time, but I get sparks of it now (@AuntGlow I can even feel the tiny-muscle spasms in my body that I get from it). I haven't had that at all in 6 years, and in the past 25 years the only times I have felt it were when I was at the airport to fly overseas. I'm very grateful for the RELEASE resources you mentioned because they really helped me with making the decision on how to taper once I got below the lowest-commercially-available dosage. I told my GP what it said, and he said "Ok" but when it came time for me to be tapering he just ignored it and told me the old-method of "just go to zero, or alternate days". I didn't think either of those were good ideas with my mild-but-impactful side-effects (i.e. the few days post-decrease I would get side-effects would mean I could not drive; and if I did every second-day I was concerned that it might cause my body to have more drawn out side-effects because of the up-down levels in my body). When I spoke to the trial psychiatrist the other week and told him I was on a halfway dose between the lowest-commercial and nothing (instead of doing on-off days) he was really glad to hear I was aware of that option and supported my decision to do it, because he was going to recommend that if I wasn't already at that stage.

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@Till23 wrote:

If I could tell you some of them, you would think my life was pretty good and how could I be depressed or that the past traumas haven’t affected me much. So you never know what’s really happening for other people. Even though I have these opportunities I really have to budget hard to afford them.

Oh, I would never assume that because someone's life looks "pretty good" from the outside (or an "absence of things to complain about") that it might not be hell and pain and depression inside! Heck, by all means to others my life looks really good! Yet I don't want to live. It doesn't make sense to most people, but it does to me.

Just as I know people who have been really wealthy or had a high income and then something has happened (or even just their normal expenses happen!) and life is really unaffordable and hard to scrape by. Even myself, whilst I am still on paid leave from work, I have a good income. But I can barely pay my weekly recurring bills when my creditcard comes due (but I have savings I can dip into when I need to, for now) -- because my medical & support bills are so high. But no one else sees that unless I tell them. If they just heard my income they'd assume I was fine; especially whilst I pay enough to cover my board (but not commercial rent).

So I hear you, and I believe you. 🤗. I don't assume things are easy.

And "keeping your own counsel" may be safer in some situations, but I strongly believe that it is even more healthy to find the places were it is safe to not have to just "keep your own counsel" but be able to express it to someone. To be heard. To be validated. To know someone else cares. It's not about comparison to anyone else. It's about the fact that your life is real. How you feel is real. How you see the world is real. And all that is valid.

Thanks for your post @AlwaysMyself.

I am currently away with not good reception, so will respond when I return.

Hi @AlwaysMyself

I hope you are well. Sorry for the delay in responding.

I definitely want to reply, sometimes it’s getting the time, the internet problem I am having or just not feeling up to it at the time.

I have not been upset by you in the past, I can’t imagine it happening in the future.

A number of people have asked me about ADHD, not treating clinicians though. I.

I can’t imagine applying for NDIS and soon it will be too late because of my age. I have managed to get by just myself for the last several decades. .

I’d be interested to hear the outcomes of your assessments.

I say faking because I don’t genuinely believe these positive thoughts, or things I try to think of in a positive, or at least a non-negative way. I can do the same thing as you if I think I can’t do this and then I think of a similar situation that I could do it and then I can change that thought. Those things though are not long-held thoughts.

I am glad that the trial preparation is going well and there appears to be some positives already with talking with the clinicians and that you’re ability to feel some kind of joy has returned.

I am back home @tyme but haven't looked at forums really until this evening. Looks like PSWs are thin on the ground according to what I have read, which isn't much, but I notice a few people have mentioned it. So probably best to attend to other tags. My MH baseline is pretty much the same there are some worse times and rarely better times, but average is the same, so no change to discuss.

I notice you just responded to a member saying you knew as much as they did about the current forum situation, I must say if you are the "Community Lead" this is a real problem for the organisation. Transparency is always better than no communication, so there seems to be an organisational problem. If funding is an issue, for example, better to just say that, because people always find something to fill the gap, usually the "something" is not helpful.