Never being in a relationship

I'm sorry if that question came across of condescending @Former-Member, it certainly wasn't my intention. I was going to go on musing about how society does seem to frame a successful life as one that follows a certain path or adheres to a certain lifestyle (which includes romantic love, marriage, kids) and seems to discredit other lifestyles as not as valid or meaningful, which can be very hard not to internalise... but I didn't want to waffle so I took it out, leaving my post looking a bit blunter than it was meant. I can see now that as it is my reply could be invalidating, so I apologise.

@Ru-bee

I wasn't necessarily saying you were being condescending, I am just sick of talking about why I would like to be in a relationship. I almost need a template to just copy and paste every time Im asked.

I think people who are in a relationship who say "do you need to be in one to live a meaningful life" are the truly condescending people on this planet. I personally believe that if you are in one, you have no right to ask that of someone who would like to be in one. It is just so lacking in self awareness it is embarrassing.

hiya @Former-Member just saw the pic you posted of Rosie!! 😍

also just read your recent post, and i get what you mean about people having different ways of viewing what a 'meaningful life' is to them. some people can stay alone their whole life and feel fulfilled, some have met 'their person', some have had multiple 'persons', and may/may not have felt fulfillment, etc. it really just depends on the person. i really don't think wanting a relationship is a bad thing, even i want one. let's be honest, most people want relationships!! we're social creatures, we crave connections.
but there's a difference between living FOR a relationship vs. living AND wanting a relationship.

from what you've mentioned, would i be correct in saying you're 'living for a relationship' at the moment? feel free to correct me if i'm wrong please.

@rav3n

That's what I have been saying, there are different ways of feeling fulfilled and every one is different. It's just I feel like I have spent the last 10 years routinely justifying myself and I cant do it anymore. I am absolutely sick of it and there's no wonder there isn't wider support for single people, because no one knows what to say without sounding completely condescending and dismissive about this.

I get what you mean and I am trying to consciously do the latter. I have been trying to build my social life more and do more things outside my comfort zone. I went to Legoland on Friday with some friends which was nice so I am aware of what you are saying.

I guess I am fed up of these one-off dates that go absolutely nowhere after all the time, energy and effort Ive put in. I know of stories of people who really struggle in this area and they still get past the first date, they occasionally get hook ups, they might date someone for a few weeks or months. I dont even get that far, THATS how pathetic I must be to all women

Hey @Former-Member I've been catching up on your posts, and I'm really sorry to hear that you've had more crappy experiences.

Something that caught on my brain a bit, when you were talking about your date -

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@Former-Member wrote:

I was mindful of being expressive,

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You remember me rambling on about how, what people actually want in relationships isn't someone perfect or tall or rich or who has the most confidence, what they want (even if they don't explicitly know it) is authenticity. Forgive me if I'm making an assumption here but to me this sounds like someone who is still spending a lot of time and energy on masking. If we're focusing on self-analysing and ensuring we 'appear' to be a certain way, then a) we're not being authentic and b) we're not going to be present and attuned to the conversation, or to the person we're with.

Have you ever asked the people you have been on dates with for some feedback? Perhaps asking them directly for some honest insights could be helpful!

@Jynx

Respectfully, I would say that that is an assumption as I’m not doing grandiose displays of affection or anything like that. I am being true to myself and I’m acting not different to how I would in other situations, I’m just adding tiny flairs to separate it from being just two friends catching up.

because that is the only bit of feedback I’ve ever received. Some dates I’ve been on have been described as two friends catching up. So I’m trying to do little things here and there to differentiate it.

i come back to my original point. Women’s standards now are ridiculously high. We only went on a date for 50 minutes. How are you meant to make any meaningful connections with that time frame? I told some work friends about this and they were shocked about it. A while ago I had a friend come and watch a date I was on to see what feedback she could give me. She was stunned because she felt I did all the right things and was authentic yet the other person just rejected me.

yeah like you mentioned, i think some people just don't know the right thing to say! i think the whole 'relationships isn't everything' is a comment people make with good intentions but it comes off as dismissive for some, especially when you've heard it many times before. out of curiosity, what would you say is the perfect (validating) reply? @Former-Member

i'm glad you're trying to be the latter one - i know it takes a bit of time and practice to get there. and Legoland with friends sounds fun!! did you end up buying any legosets?

i'm so sorry you feel that way, but just know that trying to meet people and one-off dates don't make a person 'pathetic'. i know a bunch of people who have dated for years and are still single, none of them pathetic - in fact they're pretty amazing. they just haven't found someone they click with yet. the way you speak about yourself in your inner monologue really does matter, so please do be kind to yourself.

you mentioned you put a lot of effort/time/energy into these dates, have you done a more casual chill date? like getting ice cream and chilling at a beach or grabbing a coffee and going for a walk?

@Former-Member I definitely wasn't imagining you being like, idk an 80's rom com star or anything 😅 Just wanted to draw your attention to like... what's going on in your mind when you're out on a date - just something for reflection maybe.

One thing that used to really mess my dates up was that I used to get stuck in my own mind, where I was analysing and self-monitoring/editing my behaviours to adhere to what I thought was the 'correct' way to be on a date. The best dates I've ever had were the ones where it wasn't intended as a date! Took the pressure off.

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@Former-Member wrote:

Women’s standards now are ridiculously high.

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I'm going to be honest with you. When I read this, it immediately puts me into alert-mode. Not because I think you are a misogynist, but because this is the language misogynists use. My brain sees that and I immediately feel less inclined to want to engage with you in conversation. I can reassure that part of my brain and ignore the sense of unease, because we've had enough conversations now for me to know that you're NOT like that... But I would caution against speaking about women in over-simplified terms or making sweeping generalisations about what they want or how they behave. It's not just a turn off, it makes us feel unsafe.

@rav3n

The date was a casual one in the sense that we went for ice cream and went for a walk. I didn't buy any lego sets as they are too expensive and I think the best validating reply is to not give advice or make assumptions. Ask what they have tried and go from there.

@Jynx

I am sorry, I dont like making sweeping generalisations like that and I didn't want to make you feel scared. I am just hopeless and sad about the future because I keep getting rejected and have no clarity whatsoever to what I am not doing right.

However, I do want to ask you a question. If a woman says "all men are terrible/awful", do you have the same reaction to what misogynists say about women? Because I have heard women say this in workplaces and on TV and that never gets called out at all. I find when women say that, I want to engage less in conversation. But when I called a woman out for saying that once, she called me a "misogynist".

@Former-Member no apology necessary, like I said I can easily ascertain that it is an easier way to express what you want to express, I just wanted to flag it with you as something to be mindful of.

Yeah I do get uncomfortable with that kinda stuff being said about men. You definitely didn't deserve to be called a misogynist for calling out crappy behaviour. I think the issue is that you are just as much a victim of toxic masculinity as women (and most men) are, but because of the horrifying cesspool that is gender politics, you've been automatically placed on the 'bad' side of the equation. Which is deeply unfair.

So even if what you say is true, sometimes in these cases people aren't really listening to what you're actually saying, they just hear something that fires them up and then all logic goes bye-bye. That's when name-calling and baseless accusations often start getting thrown around. In my experiences with these kinds of conflicts, if someone has already decided you're the 'enemy' it doesn't really matter what you say, it will be wrong.

Ugh, I hate gender politics so so much. I think in and of itself, social constructs of gender are a humongus factor as to why dating is such a bloody slog these days.