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Retirement (mental health)

Retirement (mental health)

I'd like to hear from others as to their experiences of retirement, good, bad, or otherwise.

Research on depression in retirement varies. Findings at one extreme are that retirement reduces the risk of depression by about 20% whereas at the other extreme the risk of depression was found to increase by about 40% in medium and longer-term retirees.

By choice, I stopped working in 2016.

I did some homework before retiring including checking with my accountant, doing a course at work looking at some of the non-finanical aspects of retirement, and seeing a psychologist for the same reason.

Even so, after 18 months I fell into clinical depression, mainly due to running out of purpose and meaning.

While I was depressed I considered various ways of killing myself. What kept me going was the love of family, plus: my GP (who provided me with mental health care plans); psychologist; psychiatrist (who prescribed an anti-depressant); and psychotherapist. I also volunteered with Lifeline during this time. Being on the phones helped put my own wellbeing into perspective, and the training Lifeline provided me was excellent. In a round about way, as a result of my depression, I also came to study and become a qualified Life Coach. The training here was excellent and highly relevant to my condition.

I eventually came out of the other side of depression, praise be, and I know what to look out for now, and I now have a much better idea of how to make the most of retirement. fyi @Shaz51

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In response to: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

Thanks @Explorer7, a wealth of great information there. The word 'purpose' has come to me a lot recently and that has sort of guided a lot of things I've tried to add to my list. I think because I've never really been the type of person to seek support or especially ask for it until the past year or so, it has given me a strong desire to reach out to support other people. I wonder if it's because after 50 or so years of struggling and keeping everything to myself and wishing someone was there for me, I now find myself wanting to be that person for others in a similar situate to what I was for so long.

I want to improve the social gap that is in my life, but this is where I struggle and makes me thing this is the main thing I need to work on. I just don't know how to begin to fix it and psychologists I've seen so far were little help. I don't know if it's because they were all quite young or something else, but i'm not sure they understood when I said I found it difficult to connect with people, just how difficult I find it. So maybe this Tutti Frutti Book of Wellbeing would be a good start.

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

@MJG017 Thank you.

It may be that it doesn't matter if you don't know how to begin to start on improving the social gap. Recognition of the gap and wanting to improve it seems like a good start. The mental health support group that I attend runs social events from time to time e.g. meet for a coffee/tea and then go for a walk afterwards. Volunteering, choirs, Toastmasters, book clubs, Mens Shed, Womens Shed, are possibilites. I participate in three to five online forums, including this one. These aren't as good as ftf interactions but they help to keep me going.

A couple of other possibilities, if you're into that sort of thing, is to join a chess club, or a bridge club.

Relationships Australia may be worth speaking to, to ask if they have anything to offer re finding it difficult to connect with people.

I suspect there are no easy solutions here, only quite a few possibilites.

I was surprised to see that this SACommunity.org site lists 850[!] social and activity groups.

If you're spiritually inclined, I once attended and enjoyed a 10:30 AM Sunday service of the SA Unitarians, at 99 Osmond Terrace, Norwood. They say their services last for about an hour and are followed by a social hour with coffee and tea provided.

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

@Explorer7I don't think my problem is finding groups to join, it's the confidence to join them. And if I do, then the confidence to build connections with others in the group. This has always been my main issue, and something I am trying really hard to work on... just still not sure how.

I did look into volunteering and doing the training at lifeline, but when it came to selecting a date for the intake, 2024 is already taken, so I'd have to wait until next year. So i'll have to wait until there's some 2025 dates available.

I did have contact with Relationships Australia SA when I received my adoption records about 3 years ago. It was recommended to talk to the when I got them. I contacted them again a couple of months ago because the have a PASS (post adoption support service) program. I called them after I discovered the idea of insecure attachment styles and thought they would be able to help with it. I was told someone would call me to book me in when they had some availability and said it may take around 10 weeks. So i'm still waiting to hear back from them, because i think it may be my last hope to get some help with it. So fingers crossed.

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

@MJG017

Here are my notes and extracts from Britt Frank’s book, The Science of Stuck: Breaking Through Inertia to Find Your Path Forward (2022), and her engaging approach to mental health.

She mentions all the symptoms you listed: fear, anxiety, confidence, motivation. Your feelings of a lack of confidence seems like a “stuck” situation.

It’d be good to hear from you what you think about her book. We could discuss further.

Notes about and extracts from Britt Frank’s book

Frank’s book represents a synthesis of academic journals, scientific research, noted authors, her own clinical experiences, and evidence-based best practices in psychotherapy.

She is a psychotherapist, and survivor, having experienced abusive relationships, substance abuse, clinical depression, sexual dysfunction and drug addiction. She writes that she takes psychiatric medication to round out her jagged edges.

Frank caveats that, “Sometimes our most extreme symptoms need to be managed medically before we attempt any psychological interventions.”

In her introduction she writes that, “Mental health is not a mental process—mental health is a physical process. For many of us, even our scariest symptoms are not mental illnesses—they’re body responses…my entire life changed when I learned about body responses. Symptoms of borderline personality disorder, bipolar 2, clinical depression, and eating disorders all but vanished.”

She adds that, “The working assumptions of the book are:

► When you're in logical mode, it feels like you're in the driver’s seat of your brain.

► When you're in emotional mode, it feels like you're locked in the trunk of a speeding car with no brakes.

► Your personality is not a singular thing, but a collection of parts and subparts. (You can experience genuine joy only to the degree that you understand and accept all parts of yourself).

► You have power to change how you think (to the degree that you have choices, the willingness to do so, and access to resources.

► You have power to change how you act (to the degree that you have choices, the willingness to do so, and access to resources).”

* * *

The first part of these notes draws from the following chapters:

  1. Anxiety is a superpower, without it we stay stuck
  2. Hidden benefits of staying stuck
  3. The myth of motivation

There are two types of “stuck”: having too much energy (anxiety/ADD/panic/distraction); or not enough energy (depression/fatigue/procrastination/lack of motivation). These are symptoms of problems and not the problems themselves.

Our brains are wired for survival (not happiness) and to seek safety (not serenity) so staying stuck is an efficient use of resources. [2] For example, “I need to keep moving so I won’t get eaten by a cheetah” OR “My brain thinks it needs to conserve energy to keep me alive.” Since you no longer live in a cave or in the presence of lions, tigers, and bears, your brain is misinterpreting danger cues. Even though you logically know you are safe, it often feels impossible to get moving; “your brain may believe danger is coming later.” “Your mind may think your safe, but it’s your body that calls the plays. You do not get to decide whether your body should feel safe or unsafe.”

As well, we often accept the discomfort of the familiar rather than risk the unknown of change—even positive change. However, Frank adds that It takes way more work to live in a perpetual state of stuck.

You don’t need to know why you feel what you feel. You don’t need to tell your story—or to even know your story—in order to heal.

Unaddressed grief, unresolved anger, relational conflict, and unhealthy habits can all contribute to feeling stuck.

[3] Getting out of stuck needs an understanding of trauma, even if you don’t think you have it. It results when your brain is overwhelmed. Trauma explains behaviour; it does not excuse behaviour. It’s not necessary to know why your brain created a trauma response or to what stimuli your brain was reacting. It does not matter whether the need is real. Unremembered things can have an impact on you. Forgiveness (which is a spiritual ideal) is not required to heal trauma.

“You have unresolved trauma. So do I. So does everyone. As long as your human, you are going to have trauma to a degree.”

“Think about the food you eat. Anything can cause indigestion. You know if you ingest contaminated food, it's likely that you’ll get sick. But you can also experience indigestion from the same meal that you've eaten a million times. Not all foods are going to cause indigestion. But all foods have the potential to cause indigestion. Trauma is the same. If you experience war, abuse, natural disaster, or assault, the likelihood that you'll have symptoms is high. But normal things can cause trauma too. Your brain is a highly complex network. Your body receives infinite pieces of information every second of every minute of every day. Not everything is going to overwhelm your brain. But everything has the potential to overwhelm your brain. The reality of indigestion doesn't stop me from enjoying cheesecake.”

The reality of trauma doesn't need to stop you from enjoying life.

Frank gives ten sensory-based suggestions for calming down, and ten suggestions for warming up, so as to flip the logic switch back on. Once that occurs your brain can respond to cognitive tools like positive thinking, affirmations, and encouraging self-talk. “Yes, this is hard. It takes work. But it takes more work to not do the work.”
continued in next post

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

Part 2: Here are my notes and extracts from Britt Frank’s book, The Science of Stuck: Breaking Through Inertia to Find Your Path Forward (2022), and her engaging approach to mental health.

She gives the following example:

“Let's consider the case of Jo, thirty-four, a client who came to therapy for social anxiety.

Jo didn't know why she felt anxious in social settings, so she assumed there was something wrong with her. She was so focused on her "anxiety attacks" she didn't realize there was a function to these feelings. Rather than following the trail to its source, Jo was stuck in shame and self-blame.

Fear shows up in the body with the same physical sensations as anxiety: shallow breathing, rapid heart rate, sweaty palms, dry mouth, and tension. But unlike anxiety, fear is tied to a direct source. Sometimes the source is a present danger and sometimes it is a future concern. Jo's dilemma was not social anxiety. What was the real problem? Social situations unconsciously reminded her of the college frat party where she experienced a sexual assault. Jo's problem wasn't a mental illness-- it was unresolved trauma. Her body produced a, fear response when faced with social situations. Because Jo believed she should be over the incident and that it "wasn't really that bad, she buried her feelings. These buried feelings announced their existence as a fear response in social situations - particularly in social situations where men outnumbered women.

Worry is diet fear. Fear lite. Worry creates the same body cues as fear but without the intensity. After Jo realized her social anxiety was a completely reasonable fear, our next task was to turn her fear into a worry. Managing a worry feels way more doable than trying to "get over a fear. Jo was worried about getting stuck in dangerous situations. This worry made total sense in context, so she no longer felt crazy. Since she could now think clearly without the weight of shame, Jo decided to stand near the exit doors during social events. Her logic brain turned back on and we brainstormed a list of coping strategies, including frequently checking in with a supportive friend, validating the pain from her past, and giving herself permission to leave events early. Eventually she was able to completely eliminate her "social anxiety."

When you pull your attention away from stories and emotions and focus first on body sensations, the feelings of overwhelm often immediately lessen in intensity. Why? The act of observing your experience changes your experience.

Another example illustrates Frank’s idea of mental health as a physical process:

“Feeling stuck can be terrifying because it's a free-floating series of body sensations onto which we project stories of shame and inadequacy. When you view symptoms as concrete and physiological, rather than as abstract or ethereal, they become much easier to contain therefore reduce. When I work with overwhelmed clients, my immediate goal is to help them take the broad concept of stuckness and turn it into something tangible. How does this work? Let's take the example of Maddie, a twenty-nine-year-old client. When she came in for a session, Maddie began sweating and hyperventilating the moment she sat down.

Maddie: I feel like I’m going crazy, Tm so anxious right now I feel like I’m going to die, and I'm so mad at myself for still feeling this way. What's wrong with me?

Me: You feel really overwhelmed right now. Can you tell me where in your body you feel anxious?

Maddie: I feel tightness in my chest and my heart is beating really fast.

Me: Are you willing to focus on the tightness in your chest?

Maddie: Yes.

Me: Great. Tell me about the qualities you notice about the tightness. Does it have a colour or a shape?

Maddie: It feels like a big ball of red.

Me: Does that big ball of red have a size? Can you locate where it begins and ends?

Maddie: It feels like it's the size of a grapefruit. It starts right below my throat and ends in the middle of my chest.

Me: Can you put your hand on the area in your body where you feel this? What do you think that grapefruit-sized ball would need from you right now if it could talk?

Maddie: I think it would need me to slow down and try to take care of it.

Me: Is slowing down and taking care of it something that makes sense to you?

Maddie: Well, actually...yes. This week has been insane. I haven't been able to do my usual workouts or meal planning because my mother isn't doing well. I think she's going to need to go into assisted living, and with COVID-19...

From there, Maddie was able to calm down enough to flip her logic switch back on. At that point, we could process her thoughts about her mother's health situation and come up with a strategy for coping with the stresses of caregiving. As she brought her attention toward the sensations, the panic settled down and she could think clearly. When we talked about the health benefits of staying stuck, Maddie was surprised to realize that energy was one of the benefits of her anxiety. "When I really stopped to think about it," she admitted, "I was afraid that if I stopped feeling so buzzy, then depression would take over and I wouldn't be able to do anything at all. Anxiety is awful, but it does give you lots of energy."

It's important to examine your beliefs about and the benefits of your behaviour. Instead of shaming yourself for feeling stuck, look for stories. In Maddie's case, once we identified the feelings in her chest and recognized her need to recommit herself to her self-care, her story that she was crazy ended up shifting. She learned to tell herself, Of course I feel overwhelmed. I haven't taken care of myself and I have a mountain of responsibility on me. This is starting to make sense.

When you mix up thoughts, feelings, and emotions, it becomes impossible to do the exploration necessary to reach solutions. This would be like trying to find your way through myself) out of the equation and focused first on the feelings (tight chest), the pieces a national park with no trail markers and with debris obstructing the path. In Maddie's when we took the stories ("I’m going crazy") and the emotions ("I’m so mad at myself”) became easier to organize.”

“If it was truly possible to keep the past in the past, no one would get stuck. A system that knows the past is in the past will not manifest symptoms. The past stays present until it's processed. The goal is to metabolize our experiences- not to get over them. Metabolizing your experiences means you can feel your feelings without overwhelm---that is, you can remember painful memories without cringing and you mostly feel at home in your body.”

Continued in next post

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

Part 3: Here are my notes and extracts from Britt Frank’s book, The Science of Stuck: Breaking Through Inertia to Find Your Path Forward (2022), and her engaging approach to mental health.

4. Shadow intelligence: Why you need the parts of yourself you hate.

I turn now to this chapter. You may recall that one of the working assumptions of Frank’s book was, “Your personality is not a singular thing, but a collection of parts and subparts.”

Shadows are to any aspects of ourselves that we are ashamed to admit or afraid to encounter, and hence hide or repress. For example, some people have an anger shadow---they think they should always be nice. We all have parts of ourselves that we hide from ourselves. Trying to hide from your shadows, like holding a beach ball underwater, doesn’t work. Any qualities we hide in shadows tend to show up sideways in our lives as mental health symptoms, relational difficulties, or inexplicable triggers. “When you identify, understand and befriend your shadows, they no longer have power over your actions.” As Carl Jung said, “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and your will call it fate.” Even though sadness, for example, is essential to our well-being many of us continue to suppress painful thoughts and feelings. It’s often the parts of yourself you hate the most that are trying the hardest to help you.

“Most of us aren’t taught how to be whole.” Instead we’re taught to split off from any thoughts, feelings, or qualities that aren’t socially acceptable. Jenna MacLaine writes, “Your shadow is similar to fire---fire has the potential to provide heat and comfort and it has the potential to cause pain and destruction. Frank adds, “Your shadow is neither good nor bad until you act.”

“The problem with trying to hide from our shadows? It doesn’t work.”

“You’ve likely heard of IQ (intelligence quotient) and EQ (emotional intelligence), but to get unstuck you also need to have…SQ, or shadow intelligence. People high in SQ know their shadows inside out. They’re free to pursue their dreams instead of…’upper limiting’---the unconscious tendency to sabotage ourselves when we get close to achieving our goals.”

The shadow quality of procrastination, for example, helps to protect you from your potential threat.

Like it or not, we have nice parts (eat vegetables and exercise) and non-nice parts (b-i-n-g-e eating and watching TV). “That other part of you? That’s a shadow part.”

In 31 Ways to Happiness, Awdesh Singh writes, “Your happiness depends on your ability to balance the opposites rather than sticking to only one of the truths while ignoring all others. When you avoid something for long, over a period of time, it creates a craving in you that can disturb the peace of your mind and make you suffer immensely.”

“The solution is neither to ignore your shadow parts nor to permit them to run wild. The solution is to develop a relationship with and an outlet for your shadow parts.” “In A Little Book on the Human Shadow, Robert Bly wrote, “every part of our personality that we do not love will become hostile to us”.

“Think of your parts like a cast of characters…When you can ID which character in your “cast” needs your attention, you can more effectively implement “self-care” solutions”

“Behaviours that are self-care to one part of you might be self-harm to another. Learning to lead your internal parts [akin to an orchestra conductor] helps you to discern the difference.” In this context, “self-leadership is the practice of responding to stressors rather than reacting to triggers.” “The goal of therapy…is not to change yourself, it’s to know yourself---and to then conduct your inner orchestra with skill and compassion.”

“You…don’t lack motivation---you have parts who think the best way to help you is to shut your system down. These parts may act out with destructive behaviours, but the parts themselves aren’t bad---their intention is to protect you from your shadows. When your parts are in charge, you can feel crazy, out of control, dissociated, indecisive, and overwhelmed. When your inner conductor…is in charge, suddenly you have access to…Confidence, Calmness, Creativity, Clarity, Curiosity, Courage, Compassion, Connectedness.”

“The secret to effective self-talk is to turn your inner monologue into an inner dialogue.” That is, to talk to yourself using your name or pronouns.

"Victor E. Frankl wrote: ‘Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies freedom and growth.’ “Third-person self-talk helps to create psychological space.”

“Many people continue to beat themselves up using this format.” “To maximise its efficacy, “you’ll need to apply the principles of Self-parenting to your inner dialogue.”

“Self-parenting is when you speak to and care for your parts---all of them---with kindness and compassion…(If the idea of inner parents and children doesn’t land, you can think of your inner leader as the head coach and replace the idea of inner children with “inner players” on your “team.”) Until we replace the relentless inner critic with a compassionate inner parent, we tend spin around in circles.”

Frank gives an example:

“Imagine you had a horrible week at work, and when you get home Friday evening, you go on a monster food b-i-n-g-e. You're lying on the couch feeling miserable and nauseated, but you know that yelling at yourself is pointless-- if shame worked, it would have worked by now. You decide to try a compassionate Self-leadership approach:

Instead of thinking: I'm being so bad. God, I suck. I hate that I can't control myself

around food. What's wrong with me?

Try: Hi, b-i-n-g-e part. I know you are hurting right now. I know you were only trying to

help me by eating all the food. I didn't take very good care of you this week. Next week I

will make sure we eat instead of skipping meals and that we take more breaks.”

“A Self-leadership approach allows you to take psychological space, to form connections

with your parts, and to maintain a clear enough head to find solutions. You can remember

this method by using the acronym PART.

► Pause. Remember you have multiple parts.

► Acknowledge your part (or parts) by saying hello.

► Remove shame from this process---your parts are trying to help you.

► Take back the ‘conductor’s baton’ and make a plan.”

“Often we can’t access a compassionate inner parent until after we’ve absorbed the benefits from other resources. Self-parenting doesn’t replace therapy or medical treatment.”

The more we ignore the parts of ourselves we don’t like, the harder they fight and scream. Tending to shadow parts (with boundaries) can soothe their destructive impulses. “Shadow snacks are small indulgences that you consciously and intentionally permit the destructive parts of yourself to do, think, or have.” As soon as your shadow parts feel seen and heard, they tend to settle.

The most nutrient-dense shadow snack is physical movement (not the same as exercise) e.g. dance. Stress is not just in your mind—it is also in your body. Try it for five minutes a day.

You do not have to think positive thoughts all the time.

“Ask yourself which part of your system needs care when you’re feeling triggered.”

“Write a letter to a part from your inner leader or Self. Then write a letter from your part to your inner leader. When you write your letter from the part, use your nondominant hand.”

“Make a list of shadow snacks you can have handy when your inner parts feel peckish.”

Continued in next post

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

hey @Happyness i wonder if you'd find this useful? the post that @Explorer7 made about notes and extracts from Britt Frank’s book, The Science of Stuck: Breaking Through Inertia to Find Your Path Forward (2022) - in part 2, the dialogue with Maddie actually discusses a great strategy that's also been helpful for me when i've felt panic/fear - is that something you've tried before or would like to try?

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

Part 4: Here are my notes and extracts from Britt Frank’s book, The Science of Stuck: Breaking Through Inertia to Find Your Path Forward (2022), and her engaging approach to mental health.

5. How to human (Three crash courses on intimacy)

We are prisoners of the fear of change, meaning we fear the prospect of the unknown or loss more than the possibility of being able to things we can’t currently do.

6. The sticky world of friendships and dating

The absence of love and belonging will always lead to suffering.

A lack of strong relationships results in the risk of premature death from all causes increasing by 50%

Start with lightweight friends.

Fill-in-the-blanks grid to consciously design a social circle

Build your friendship muscles [confidence muscles?]

It takes just as much energy to be unhappy alone as it does to construct a social circle

Social media friends are OK; your life, your rules.

If we’re trying to get out of feeling stuck we need to walk before we can run.

7. The emotionally unskilled family

8. Trust your instruments (How to recover from toxic habits)

9. Becoming an emotional adult

I did not read these chapters.

10. Let’s play

Frank sets out seven simple rules you get yourself out of stuck. She used the analogy of a chessboard, with 16 pieces. You don’t need to know or learn chess to benefit. You don’t need to follow the rules sequentially.

The rules are:

  1. Take inventory. Each piece on the board represents a single area of life: “Career, Money, Social life, Intimate partner, Family, Children/parenting, Spirituality, Creativity, Physical health, Body image, Hobbies, Self-care, Mental health, Sex, Purpose, Community. ID which make sense for you; add whatever categories you want. It’s easy to get focused on one thing when you’re feeling stuck. Taking inventory helps you see the whole board.
  2. Look for easy moves. “Once you build momentum from the easy moves, you’ll generate enough “I can do this” energy to deal with more difficult areas.
  3. Make a list of three choices. See which pieces feel stuck. Write down three small choices.
  4. Know which pieces you can and cannot move. What you want to change (but can’t) and what you think you can’t change (but can). Your board is a combination of circumstances and choice
  5. Do one thing. Newton’s first law of motion. Once you get moving, progress compounds rapidly. Choose 1 task and commit to doing it within the next week. A pawn can become a queen.
  6. Listen to feedback. Stuck turns to unstuck the very second you take a step—even if you feel like you’re going in the wrong direction. You will not receive instructions if you’re parked. Stuck is often the result of ignoring feedback esp. in early adulthood. Learning from decisions is as important as the decisions themselves.
  7. Celebrate. Necessary —> possible —> impossible. Body-based interventions reduce stress responses and help you stay in logical, thinking mode. Anything that moves ahead, wins. Rejoicing in ordinary things. No chess game was ever won by the player who sat for a lifetime thinking over his next move.

Final thoughts

A book cannot by itself teach how to play. It can only serve as guide, and the rest must be learned by experience.

Don’t need readiness, only willingness.

As you shift out of stuck, expect to encounter discomfort.

In trauma work…A different kind of bad is good

You are unbreakable.

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

@Explorer7Thanks mate, I've grabbed a copy of her book. I also found a long 1nterview with her about her book on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jANtwiUtMY

I thought you might be interested in watching it. I haven't watched it yet but I'll share some thoughts when I've had a look at the book.

The bit you quoted "Mental health is not a mental process—mental health is a physical process. For many of us, even our scariest symptoms are not mental illnesses—they’re body responses." stood out to me, i've always felt that a lot of the issues I have not doing things I know I should do felt more like a physical obstacle. I can't really explain it, and I haven't a chance to read anything yet as I only just got the book but it definitely got my attention.

Thanks again for all that information.

In response to: Re: Retirement (mental health)

Re: Retirement (mental health)

Ahoy @MJG017, it's been a little too long since we spoke.

I stumbled upon a reference to improving wellbeing by volunteering with Meals on Wheels, here:

https://nswmealsonwheels.org.au/app-social-wellbeing

It's NSW but I presume its works the same way elsewhere.

Is that something that might work for you?

How're you going, in general?

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