A strange dream and it's meaning...

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@HeavenlyQueen wrote:

@Sahara It is to do with the joy that comes from acceptance - that there really are evil people, that there is rarely justice in the justice system, that people and things are not always as they appear. That abusers can have a field day in a support forum for people who are currently weak and vulnerabe. And so can unscrupulous shrinks or lawyers. Yuk. That the world is the way it is, and not the way we pretend it is or want it to be.

After all these years, I'm sure you must have a toolkit of useful practices for lifting out of depression or speedier recovery from panic attack? Pathways back into hope, courage and maybe even fearlessness?

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Hi @Former-Member,

I think we really understand each other. I just accept that there are people out there who I need to stay away from... quite a lot of people! Whatever they do to me, deep down they can't really effect me... because I am ok.

I am ok, just as I am. Honestly, did I really need my ex-ployer's shitty job or some monetary compensation? Not really. It wouldn't have made that much difference to my life.

Did I really need half of my ex-partner's and my joint property? You know....not really. I mean, it would have been nice to have something.... just not if it meant having to prolong the contact I had with him! Even if the contact was only through lawyers or whatever... I knew it would bring me down and I needed a clean break.

Walking away was so much more liberating than getting all I could, for the sake of it. I don't need a lot. When you are happy walking in the forest for kicks, you don't really miss having money.

Yes, if you believe in Karma, then people like my ex-employer will have a terrible time in the next life. But I guess we'll never know. Or he may just get away with what he has done. Life is very mysterious. Perhaps there is a reason for everything; perhaps not.

@Former-Member, I'm lucky that I don't experience panic attacks any more. I don't believe I suffer depression, either, now. If I do, it's only mild. I think that going for a walk or a ride on my bike is probably enough to help lift a low mood, these days.

Anxiety is trickier. I still get some anxiety. It comes and goes. The important thing is to recognise it for what it is and call it out. "This is just anxiety", I say to myself. "It feels unpleasant, but it won't hurt me."

Then I distract myself by doing what I enjoy... like reading, painting or listening to music and doing a bit of yoga. Deep breathing is also good.

If I have to, I do a bit of CBT with myself. Sometimes I do journaling, too.

Hi everyone,

I'm enjoying this wonderful discussion of ours, but I'll be away from the Internet for the next week or so. Will definitely be posting when I return.

Hi @Appleblossom

Got your post by email but cant find it here. Oh well. About learning the hard way. Is there any other way to learn? ha ha ha ha. That's my whole point about us being lucky (for want of a better word) to have experienced our crises and battles with MI. That we have finally SEEN things we can no longer ignore. Ignoring (or delusion) also being the 'normal' way of being in the world. Look at @Sahara's friend who has been circling round and round the quandaries of life for fifteen years, discussing it with anyone she can, and getting no closer to finding an answer she is satisfied with such that she can make a change to her life towards peace. Can't find a way in. I reckon that's what I was like. Couldn't put my finger on it until life blew up in my face for the second time in my life. Duh-oh.

It was pretty bloody sad for three years, but now it's bloody wonderful to have this cave-man nervous system that kicks in and takes over from time to time and reminds me to STOP. (Easy to say when not triggered!)

Also, I'm big on an idea central to meditation. That is, learning not to rate a thing (thought, mood, car being broken into) as bad or good. Just that it IS. Wow. Won't it be great when we can all do that every minute of every day, without fear or aversion kicking in? "It feels unpleasant, but it won't hurt me." Yep. Great reminder. I think our culture teaches us unrealistic expectations about being happy and carefree all the time instead of allowing every human emotion to flow through us, and every thought (even the ugly ones) being OK and not necessarily making us bad people.

As to finding a sangha - like minded people with whom we can discuss things and who bolster each other up instead of tearing each other down, well, HELLO!!

Anyway, like @Sahara, I'm going to walk away from the forum for a bit. I can feel a kind of addiction sneaking up. To being heard. To 'helping' others. Not to mention being pulled towards my screen to see if anyone has added to the conversation. Ha ha ha ha. Back to real life and being in the middle of it for a while. Alone. Or with my dog, to be precise.

Thank you all for your wonderful contributions to a meaningful debate. We are not alone.

Hi @Former-Member, @Appleblossom and all,

I had a break and went away for a short trip with one of my friends..... it should have been a lot of fun, but sadly, it wasn't really that great.

For some reason we didn't seem to gel like we always do..... there seemed to be some underlying tension, which kept rearing it's head. The trip itself was great, though. We saw a lot and everything ran smoothly.

I'm a bit worried because I started this discussion about having a troubled relationship with a different friend... then I end up with tensions and mis-understandings with another friend!! Unfortunately, the common denominator with both these friendships is me.... I hope I am not causing trouble where I don't need to be!

I feel like I might be too stressed and combative. I really missed my husband while I was away and I felt home-sick. I am soooo glad to be home.

Welcome back @Sahara.

when we are the common denominator, it's worth contemplation, and try not to skip straight to self blame and self loathing.....though it seems like you've already mostly conquered that habit of you ever had it (depression, panic attacks).

One thing I read a lot of here and feel myself is the fact of post traumatic growth.

is it possible that, with you as common denominator, what is happening with your friendships generally is that you have outgrown some of them? We discover that life is short, our scattered energies are precious, and that we no longer have the energy or desire to indulge in the practice of banging our heads up against the same ignorance and delusion in others (who have not experienced the insight and growth of trauma wisdom and compassion). I for one, now find that the change in my world view as a direct result of trauma often makes me feel as if I am speaking a different language with people I once thought I had common ground with.

or it could just be a little friendship glitch caused by each of you being in your own slightly self centred head spaces. Normal for New Year I'd have thought?

Thanks @Former-Member,

I feel so much better today. I love being home, for one thing, and I spent the morning drawing, which really helps me to feel more like myself.

Yes, I believe I am growing and changing, too. I think I used to be a lot meeker and more agreeable, but now I really stick up for myself and my opinions. I was probably attracting friends who wanted someone who is always 'nice' and compliant but I now no longer want to take on that role.

At times, I felt like my friend on my holiday wasn't really validating me and my feelings.... not that she is obligated to do so. But I guess I found it a bit unsatisfying.... I thought some of her opinions were very black and white, too. Yeah, I guess I look for something deeper now.

I think we left on good terms. I know she felt stressed about going back to work, so she might have been a bit edgy while we were away.

I know a friend of mine who has been through ten years of therapy now no longer feels that she can look up to her best friend the way she once did.... she feels like 'just having a laugh' is no longer enough.

Thanks @Former-Member, I can really relate to what you are saying.

Hi @Sahara

Sorry to read that your holiday wasn't as good as you would of liked. Don't blame yourself for your friends reaction - it may have just been bad timing as your friend may have had her own stresses and just wanted to get away from it all.

Good to read that you are enjoying yourself at home. It's nice to have that peace time. I can hear you though and your need to really connect with others. Not easy in a world where most are self absorbed. This forum is great for that and getting it all out there xx

Thanks @Former-Member,

I am good today and feeling quite peaceful. I did some more drawing last night and today I'm doing my volunteering for the community arts project that I'm involved in.

Thoughts of my friend from the trip are far from my mind!

I did have another dream about the original friend I posted about... the one where I dreamed that she died.

In this new dream, she was there and she was alive and a group of us were trying to organise our busy social lives together. My best friend was going to get away for an evening with my other friend and I was going to socialize with her husband for the evening! Like I had to keep him amused or something.... !

But I decided against it, so I considered hanging out with her husband's male friend instead (someone who doesn't exist in real life.) Sorry, this just all so sounds confusing.

I guess it was a dream about picking and choosing friends..... choosing who we want to see and who we would rather not see.

Well.... I remain open. I'd kind of don't mind seeing anyone, but then if I walk away feeling like the friendship isn't rewarding.... then at least I tried.

Part of the problem is that I'm a INFJ on the Myers-Briggs personality scale and we are such odd people... I think we find it hard to relate to others. (Think of "Niles" from the TV show 'Frasier' and that is basically me... but I'm female, of course. Niles is an INFJ.)

How is your daughter, @Former-Member? I hope she is a bit better?

I can't believe how much better I am feeling now that I am back in my own home! It really is a huge difference.

I struggle to understand why I didn't get along with my girlfriend on our short break, but I guess it doesn't matter too much. The thing is that I rarely see her anyway (she lives in another state) and by the time I see her again I think our difficulties and tensions will be insignificant.... We can start afresh. (maybe wishful thinking.)

I might take a break for my volunteering today and just do a few things at home.

Hi @Sahara

We feel better in an environment where we feel safe as our minds seek avoidance from any anxiety that we give in to and feel we can't deal with (that is one way anxiety disorders are created), and this does not always bring personal wholeness and fulfillment if we "hide out" from the world avoiding life. It can feel good temporarily as we do when consuming alcohol and such just numbing the pain temporarily - where we don't have to face our fears, issues, pain face on etc, but the easier way does not bring about happiness and personal fulfilment in my life experiences - the pain will resurface as it festers and grows - forcing its way to be resolved firstly through dreams or anxiety/depression - a warning sign that something is not right and has to be dealt with in a positive way. Or the saga continues.

Hells bells, I don't want to die that way so I put myself out of my comfort zone gradually that doesn't hurt or hinder but helps myself and others. I had to get out there and connect.

You need friendships my friend and what is getting in the way is your pain of rejections/hurts from the past. The only way to overcome is to take risks and connect with positive, respectful others - in a small way at first. Without second guessing yourself or letting your inner pain derive you from the pleasure of their company at first - just feel your way, dodge the negative to reach out to the positive in the outside world. Deep and meaningfuls come later with those who we can trust and at the right time. There is only very few any of us can do the latter with and even then if we delevop such close bonds - if we overdo this we will push them away.

Volunteering at the art project is good for you - try to resist the urge to stay home. That's giving into hurt and depression or your subconscious seeking to avoid it overlooking all the positives such a regular routine would offer. To break this frame of mind we have to push ourselves to regular routine and not give in to how we are feeling. Just do. Please know when engaging with others that some who genuinely care and are real friends may sometimes tell us things we don't want to hear for the sake of our welfare and happiness.

I have retreated from the world in the past - bought a farm surrounding by thousands of acres and hid. It caused untold anxiety. When I started to mix in the community it resolved this. There was good and bad, but the good outweighed and I wasn't going to let the bad win. When totally retreating or not going out into the world regularly - we are doing the latter. We are letting mental scars/fears ruin the joy we can gain and offer in the world. I would go into self denial saying I was fine but I was just giving into the pain/fear and I wasn't. It's t

This may not be your case @Sahara - but just something to watch out for. We may feel "safe from being potentially hurt or from having to face unpleasant situations when opting out but it comes back to bite in becoming unfulfilled and depressed. Best to face it head on and it gets easier. And our minds become stronger and we are happier for it.

Connecting if only in a small purposeful way - finding our place in the community is a basic psychological need for sound mental health. Something for us all to watch out for. Hence why I push myself to volunteer and go on my weekly outings etc. Doing this's healed my chronic anxiety.

Going by my own life experience your subconscious is sorting itself out in your dreams because your conscious mind is finding it too painful to face or feeling inadequate to deal with it so it's being pushed deep within as you attempt to retreat psychologically from it. But it has its way of forcing the issue back to the surface to be resolved in many ways - dreams being one, depression and anxiety being another warning sign that facing the problem has to occur in order for healing and inner growth to happen.

You said to me that the thoughts of your girlfriend and trip where far from your mind, then the next post you were wondering why it didn't go well. It is bothering you my friend. Your way of dealing with it is being at home and avoiding personal outside connection. Hermitising. I have done this and would tell myself I would venture out when I felt better with no regular routine. And I would never complete or see goals or personal relationships out on a regular basis. That leaves one depressed. I did this a lot with my crosss stitching and still do, but if I don't have some limited constant outside connection I will get depressed without doubt. We need to connect and have purpose outside ourselves to feel happy in my experience.

Are you still seeing a psychologist or counsellor? Talking this through and gaining a different perspective will help you I feel. Thinking of you ❤️