A strange dream and it's meaning...

I knew it was important to take the conversation further @Sahara.. even just your thinking about whether you should dig deeper for more compassion or if that will just enable your friend to think its ok stay in a bad situation. It is up to you what you do .. but it helps to tease things out, rather than just go with the first idea ..

ah ah @Former-Member to see the world as it really is and not how I want it to be ... yes .. getting there .. quite weary .. but the tint of rose on my glasses is clearing .. that is a big part of the problem with Christianity .. it demands and expects that .. and then things get very convoluted.

I like many concepts of Buddhism and the mediation styles .. but a thorough understanding of Christianity has been important to understand the people in my life .. some in their belief and others in their atheism. Actions/Reactions and all that.

I never went so far as to pursue Buddhist cosmology, but my daughters went to a meditation temple with me for a while..and I have "been in trouble" for both going to church and not going to church.

I have a lot of experience of resting with "I dont know". The catastrophe was inside and outside. Then it can also be thought of .. as learning to "carry one's cross" .. and there are some beautiful aspectsof the tradition .. but I often prefer the linguistic neutrality of the Buddhist approach.

I guess it is a journey to the end .. finding where we weigh in on the different concepts and in relationships. because they arent straightforward... religions and belief systems with their clusters of ideas .. and people with their clusters of traits.

Oh Gosh @Sahara, don't go beating yourself up for victim blaming! Your listening has doubtless been an absolute blessing for this friend-of-a-friend. A temporary salve to have been heard. We so desperately want simply to be heard. It's that that I find hard to unhook from. That need to be heard.

Yes @Appleblossom, big conceptual difference for me between my old Christian view and my new Buddhist one is the concept of rules laid down by the Bigfella versus guidelines or a pathway for making our own discoveries laid out by a human bloke. Try it, if it doesn't work for you, ditch it and try this instead.

I cried out for God's help over and over and it never came. Had to help myself. Secretly, I had always doubted he was up there anyway, but couldn't admit it. Decided once and for all that there's no big babysitter up there looking out for me. I'm on my own.

my Christian friends were amongst the most judgemental and unkind of all. That woke me up too!

faith is invaluable. I'm just not into blind faith anymore. Nor blind trust. Or being the baddie because I can't find a route into forgiveness. Hope none of the above offends.

None of it offends me @Former-Member

The 8 Precepts of Buddhism made far more sense than Moses10'.. I discovered that 30 years ago

t did raj yoga in my 20s but I liked Buddhism more .. Hindu cosmology didnt work for me

Buddhist prayer style made more sense to me .. than the endless rosaries of my childhood .. I came to realise that in essence there were a lot of similarities and that were similar roblems in both traditions. If

The story of my return to Christian music ministry is convoluted and related to specific individuals and the death of my brother .. in that I was accepted into a uni music course a few months after his death and have been grateful to have real live people around me over 20 years as well as my ghosts. I needed the familiar. I had already been stretched wide to accept the exotic. I doubt I would have been here today without my practise of music ministry .. it kept me focussed and enabled me for 7 years to function .. musically ok .. socially a bit backward ..

I learned to sing a beautiful repertoire... meditation had ceased working for me .. I needed the complexities of classsical and modernharmony.

my mother pushed no 4 .. respect and obey your parents .. but a half jewish friend in choir pointed out that she of all mothers

had no right to do that .. but my patterns were laid down

I see myself as a bridge .. and hybridity very common... differences and pardoxes in people have made

life more difficult but for me they have been inescapable.

That I no longer espouse many christian tenets ... or qualify them .. has been part of the issue and generated a lot of conflict .. no matter how diplomatic I tried to be ..

I usually get on fine with theologians or reliigious .itsbullheaded laity that I clash with.

I also could not sit on a mat .. to meditate etc.. so I am now a fusion of both traditions.

Happy New Year, @Former-Member, @Appleblossom, @Former-Member, @utopia, @Former-Member, @Former-Member and all.

I went to bed really early. My husband has gone away for work so I spent NYE alone! It was quite good, though... mostly I don't mind being alone, these days. One of my girlfriends is coming to stay here this afternoon.... I can't wait!

@Appleblossom and @Former-Member, I am interested in Buddhism, too. I did a short course back when I was at uni, with a Korean Zen Buddhist nun. It really moved me. Since then, I think about it, but I don't do anything to learn more. I think that now Art has become my religion, in fact! (but I still more of less believe in God)

I spoke to my best friend last night and asked her a lot of questions about my friend from the dream. I couldn't help it; I've become so curious and now I just have to know things... My best friend was very open with me. I felt a lot better after that. I sort of feel that I know where I stand.

From my point of view, I am going to carry on as I have for the last 2 years. I will listen, I will try and say the right thing, but I wont probe any deeper or ask questions anymore. Whatever happens; happens. My best friend made an important point to me: I am not responsible for this woman. She will do whatever she wants to do and my listening or not listening will make little difference.

Apparently, she calls up heaps and heaps of people all the time for advice and then endlessly discusses this advice with others but usually fails to act. I am just one of her many contacts. Most of the discussion is about her teenager (who sees a psychiatrist for no reason what-so-ever), not about her marriage.

If I now have another dream about this friend, I will welcome it!

Last night I had a dream in which my Mum was alive and I was with my sister and my Mum in a fairground. We had a lot to see and do. I saw my sister hug my Mum (this would never actually happen in our family) and my Mum did not like it one bit!

@Former-Member,

thanks for sharing so much about your life....you are very open.

It's terrible that so many bad things happened to you. And being abused on online forums... that is very low... that will not happen here. Always report a post by clicking on the 'report post' (or whatever it says) button if that post is abusive. It will be removed. It so rarely happens here, though, as this is such a good community.

I believe the thing about incompetent lawyers... I have had friends say the same thing about them.

Oh well, a lawyer is not your friend, right? They are mainly there for the money... well, that is the impression I get. Some of them may be altruistic, I wouldn't know.

I had an experience with the law due to being unfairly dismissed from my job. It was equal parts fascinating and stressful. In the end, I gave up and did not receive one cent in compensation. I just got on with life.

My friends were a bit indignant, saying "How could you let your employer get away with it?" But the world is a pretty unjust place. I knew the truth of what happened, and that was all that mattered to me, in the end. I didn't want to subject myself to years of battling. Honestly, my employer was dishonest, really crooked, but he knew a lot of people.... including a Q.C.

I'm sorry to hear that your Mum was a narcissist - but I suppose narcissists can't really help themselves, can they? Because they firmly believe that everyone else is at fault? They are stuck, aren't they? I feel for your Mum. It's terrible that people are so unhappy.

My Mum was aways unhappy, angry or completely vacant. Mainly angry! I really could not venture to say what exactly was really wrong with her. But I spent a lot of my time trying to placate her, which made me very anxious, and anyway, it was Mission Impossible.

Sounds like we have a bit in common @Former-Member.

Your ex-partner was a sociopath- they can be hard to spot. Some of them are very charming.... they sucker you in. You must feel relieved you are rid of him now?

For me, leaving my ex- I was jubilant! It was a feeling of utter relief and joy. I still like to giggle about it... how I just up and left without even a note- like a heroine in a C-grade movie! It was priceless. He took everything, though. Again, I didn't receive a cent (the story of my life?), but I didn't even care.

But even then, I still had my depression and anxiety and panic attacks to deal with and get treated for. It was hard. I struggled on alone for a long time.

@Sahara

Sociopaths take everything. They have to WIN and make sure the loser takes the blame. The fight (in the divorce court) nearly killed me, and 'relief' doesnt even begin to describe how good it has been to get away from his deception and destruction (all the while him generating goodwill in the community whilst covertly trashing my entire life)! The duplicity drives you insane. But that's what they do. He's done it to four women that I know about, and they are all left with PTSD (not the word their friends use, but 'breakdown' and 'still broken' and 'never got over it' decades after their lives were torn apart)

For what it's worth, there is a very strong argument that 'the corporation's that govern our lives - vis a vis, your former employers - are psychopathic in nature. Dishonest, without conscience, use and dispose of people without remorse - whilst appearing the opposite. Sociopaths and corporations 'get away with it' ALL THE TIME! But I'll leave that be.....

But you make a really good point, and it is repeated in quotes from greats like Nelson Mandella (they couldn't imprison my mind - my mind was free), and Buddhism. That is the point that even though we lose 'everything' or have it stolen from us, we can choose to 'take the high moral ground'. Not sure that's the right phrase. Bit sleepy. It is to do with the joy that comes from acceptance - that there really are evil people, that there is rarely justice in the justice system, that people and things are not always as they appear. That abusers can have a field day in a support forum for people who are currently weak and vulnerabe. And so can unscrupulous shrinks or lawyers. Yuk. That the world is the way it is, and not the way we pretend it is or want it to be.

And that bad things happen to good people. Not God's punishment. Or even karma - not the Western misconception of karma - that 'what goes around comes around' - but Buddhist karma, which can only be considered if one accepts the concept of past and future lives.

I have taken great solace from knowing I never lied, stole, slandered or deliberately hurt. If that is all I get from the experience, I'm fine with that! As you said, YOU knew the truth of what happened and that kind of sets us free. Pain yes, but freedom nevertheless.

But you're right. This place has been filled with compassion and care and support and no abusers or manipulators so far that I have encountered in my short time here.

After all these years, I'm sure you must have a toolkit of useful practices for lifting out of depression or speedier recovery from panic attack? Pathways back into hope, courage and maybe even fearlessness?

Hello @Sahara

I could relate to your idea that Art is your religion

That you also practise art for people .. makes it the best sort

@Former-Member Sad that you learned the hard way in divorce

Few things have been straightforward for me ..

I was very mixed about leaving but the marriage was untenable.

No I have decided that the one particular lawyer lady is not my friend

I have however met a few lawyers who care about social justice .. some take the high road and others the low..

I intended to do a Vipassana .. a couple of years ago .. it was not meant to be .. I use my own fusion of styles now ..

I do believe in a lot of the ideals of monastic and community living ..

and think there is a lot of value in finding a good sangha .. and sisterhood

Tot siens