A strange dream and it's meaning...

Thanks, @Former-Member,

yes, it is absolutely true that I am hiding away and I have done so all my life, to some extent.

I often think that if I didn't have my husband and also the responsibility I feel towards my Dad, (as he is sick,) that I would become a hermit and I would renounce the world completely!

But perhaps, as you say, this would just cause more anxiety in the long term? I absolutely want to avoid that happening.

I thought more and more about my girlfriend from the short holiday, over the past few days. I would like to sort things out with her.... but I want proceed with caution. Plus, I don't really know what to say.

There was just one other time, a few years ago, where we got into a big argument (over an ethical issue - it wasn't even personal) and I thought at that time, that I must avoid ever discussing that topic with her again.... so I have managed to do this.

But this time around, new topics of conversation emerged and we seemed to be at odds on all of them. She took pains to express that all of her other friends agreed with her. As though she was trying to tell me that I am the only one with opinions that are faulty? All her other friends are 'normal' and reasonable.

I suppose I felt a bit rejected and hurt. I know I am different to the average bear!! I know! But she made me feel a bit 'faulty', even though that was not her intention. I suppose it was just like the way my Mum used to make me feel..... "You are different and there is something wrong with being different. If you can't change yourself... then you had better at least hide your opinions/self from others."

I also felt that my friend was not the happy-go-lucky girl I once knew... she was so serious and sombre. Not like I thought she would be. We might have brought each other down.

Anyway, I explained a lot of stuff to her about my depression and anxiety and how it all was with my family when I was growing up.... I don't think she could appriciate it at all.... I think she thought I was being too harsh on my parents? Like, I was a disloyal daughter? But honestly, I sugar-coated a lot of it!!

And the interesting thing is that she, herself also suffers from anxiety... and has even been on medication for it. Yet she seemed not to relate to my experiences.

Oh well, @Former-Member, I'm glad I had a chance to write all this down. Thanks for your caring words. The other day I actually did get out and do the volunteering, rather than stay home, which made me feel better. I'm going to do some more volunteering today.

How are you going? Any nice plans for the weekend?

Being different is fantastic thing! Nothing wrong with being an introvert. And the 'everybody agrees with me, not you' argument is a subtle way of alienating someone and making them feel smaller and less than. Even when it's not 'deliberate'. Seems like your friend is reminding you of your place in the pecking order.

You have beautiful insight into your self and the conditions and circumstances around you. And that is really something to celebrate. Most people walk around with the shutters down. Having open eyes and an open heart takes tremendous courage, and you've got it! Even if some days 'courage' is just getting out of bed, getting through the day.

having only just 'met' you I see in your writing a strong, sensitive individual with a huge open heart and lots of compassion for other people. You feel and express here the full gamut of human emotions and face everything with honest self reflection and generosity of spirit towards those around you who are stuck on the merry-go-round that you hopped off ages ago.

You are doing really well @Sahara. Keep up the good work. And I hope some new allies come into your life before too long. People who validate and encourage and uplift you even when they disagree with your opinions.

Hey, @Former-Member, you are so nice! Those are such nice and caring things to say! I wondered where you had got to, as I don't think you've been online for a few days?

Yes, the "everybody agrees with me, not you" line is a bit alienating and dare I say it - it's immature. Like, there is safety in numbers and if you take on popular opinions then I suppose you will always find a lot of people who agree with you...

My friend looks unassuming and sweet, but I do believe she harbours a need to be right all the time, for some reason. I just like philosophical arguments and will debate to the cows come home.... something I might want to curtail in the future. There is a time and place for everything.

I actually sent my girlfriend a cute little picture and a 'hello' on Fb messages earlier today. Let's see if she answers.

How has your day been, @Former-Member?

Hi @Sahara

Thats great that you ended up going to your volunteer work and felt better for it. I do too when I go. Some days I don't feel like going but always glad I made the effort because I felt happier for doing so.

When people are struggling themselves and are anxious and/or depressed, they do find it hard to listen to other people's struggles I have found (I think a few of us on here are an exception to that rule but that's usually the norm). It's usually when they are in a better place that they can recall their own personal experiences and then perhaps relate somewhat and offer support and empathy. When they have grown stronger.

Your friend may never of had an issue with her mother etc, if that is the case she would not understand or relate. Anxiety can be caused by many different stressors in ones life/physical ailments/lifestyle choices/worry/low self esteem/financial and relationship problems etc - stressors that may be unique and totally different to another's stress and struggles.

When you have two strongly opinated people together whom are passionate about their point of view/ideals/beliefs - conflict will usually arise. With my dearest and closest I will avoid those conversations where they have opposing opinions/views (particularly re politics, religion and sex - the three no nos). No matter how assertive or confident if we do that enough we will alienate others.

If I feel strongly about any issue I will follow it up with action where needed and perhaps in groups that are like minded - not usually in social conversation, unless ofcourse I feel it would help someone who could be detrimentally effected and harmed by an ideal or belief system in extreme circumstances. Or on forums like this where opinions are invited. I enjoy that. But not in personal relations as it causes arguements if too opposing. I may say it once and will always leave it at that - that's usually fine.

I think what is happening now with you my dear friend is anger aimed towards your mother (and rightfully so) - that may come out when with others. She believed you should be seen and not heard - and now you feel you should make yourself heard. And you do but it could be seen by others as forceful. There is an art in getting a point across and it has to be done in a genuine manner where we don't appear to be condescending (as your mother was to you) - as this will only get others backs up.

Personally I think you are wonderful, considerate, intelligent, fair, express yourself beautifully and not offensive at all. I would be happy to be your friend as I know you are a good person and that's what matters to me. Your friends may be very insecure in their own ways and that's when people become very defensive.

Personally I feel a person is a real friend when I can turn to them in times of need and they don't fail me. That's gold.

I had a good day with hubby at the beach. We have been going there a lot lately to cool off and I love it! It never fails in regenerate my spirit. My daughter is still troubled but I deal with that one day at a time and when I have peaceful days/moments I live them to the full. That's have I cope right now and am doing okay. I am just living for now. But I am having too many late nights as I love to cross stitch, play words with friends and read/chat to the early hours of the morning. I will have to curb this for better health - I can sometimes have too much of a good time and burn the candle at both ends 😄

Hi @Former-Member,

I think you have summed up the situation very well.... I believe I was forceful with my opinions... I certainly didn't set out to be, but it just happened. I didn't mean anything by it... it just a few topics I feel passionately about... but, obviously my friend does not feel the same way as me. It shouldn't have bothered me, but it did.

I suppose I was looking for a deeper connection, but I couldn't find one, because my friend and I are just too different. It shouldn't matter... we can be friends anyway.

An interesting comparison is the relationship I have with my husband. We disagree on quite a few things (political and ethical issues)... but we never seem to argue. We just agree to disagree. I don't know if this is because I couldn't bare to argue with him because I love him so much. Or is it because he is male and therefore doesn't remind me of my mother?! It probably has something to do with it!

The relationship with my friend had become more distant in the past few years, anyway. I think that since I got married, I stopped calling her as often.... but she did not pick up the slack. When I was single, I would call her every month or so and we would have a good chat.

Sometmes I would let it go a few months between phone calls, but she would rarely ever call me. I think that for the past year she has not been on my radar and we probably went around 8 to 10 months without even a call!

In the past, I used to send her emails and occasionally post-cards, too. But I distinctly remember that she often didn't answer my emails. I remember feeling very curious about her non-answering, but I never asked her about it.

I'm glad that I am getting all this off my chest, @Former-Member. I feel better once I have written things down.

I'm glad you have been spending some time at the beach.... it's so rejuvenating. I love the beach. I used to go quite a lot when we lived in the city. I love sun-baking, too. Now we live in-land but we do have a river.

I am not a night-owl like you... I am an early bird. I love to wake up with the sound of the birds singing.

Thanks for saying you would be my friend... that is so nice. I don't think I am all those lovely things you say I am. Maybe some of the time I am.

Hi @Sahara

Your lifestyle of getting up earlier is far healthier than my own. I would love to get my body clock back in sync to be able to that again. I have trouble sleeping but once I get enough I feel really good. But have missed out on the best part of the day. I think all the stress has put me out somewhat with a few bad night owl habits (reading, playing words, YouTube, chatting on here and the rest.). I have to get a better sleep routine or it will cut my life short.

It is good to put all of this in writing - it's a good way of working through our issues as it helps to sort it out in our own minds. Freeing it from the painful depths of suppression in our subconscious.

I can only speak from my own life experience.

I have a deep connection with my best friend but there is no way I can talk politics - we have opposite views so I leave it. We connect deep in others ways - she genuinely cares for me and we enjoy each other's company. She is there for me in the dark times - that's a deep connection. I ave told her about my childhood abuse (a bit of it) and never mentioned it again - I like to leave that behind so I can move forward. The friendship we had took years to nurture.

I have other friends I made at my volunteer work which took nurturing. Once they got to know me, saw that I was genuine, honest, non judgemental and truly care for others they have moved closer and I know I can count on them in dark times. Such friendships take time and consistency to grow. But I still self doubt myself at times - those mental scars I still carry but I will push them away with more positive action and it works. If I hear they make a comment that I agree with I will jump in then and join in the conversation. It's easy at the shop with politics because all can see the harm this current one is doing to the disadvantaged as we deal with this everyday. So we are like minded.

@Sahara The best way to nurture a deep connection with others is to help them in different ways. Listen to them when they need to talk, go out with them and enjoy their company when they are stressed, bored or lonely (which can cause depression), support them in hard times, help them in practicular ways when they need it (like my assistance at the charity community centre), have a good laugh with them and enquire after their lives (how is the family and what are they doing etc and be genuinely interested in them), doing all this without expecting anything back- and those who are real will offer that all back to us anyway I find. And self confidence grows. It does not always run smooth and I dodge the bullets but by hanging in there I have reaped the benefits of true friendship. It takes nurturing and for people to get to know the real us. Then those who matter will love us for who we are.

Doing the above I needed to not listen to my negative self talk or second guess myself. I just did it - with the passion I had to give back to the community me to achieve this.

With me I need to give back and have purpose or life can become empty. And the work I do I genuinely care for those who struggle. I see them all as equals. There has to be some meaning in life for me and to be productive, but I can also equally enjoy peaceful activities as I am largely a independent and private person. So sometimes I have to push myself - well all the time I have to push 😉 Hope you are enjoying your weekend.

Thanks @Former-Member,

I have had a good day so far, just doing little things about the house. I went down to the community arts project and dropped off some home-made snacks to the volunteer who was there today. I could go back this afternoon, but I think I need some time off. I might go back into the kitchen at home and do some more cooking, as I really love cooking.

I know what you mean by being a good friend... helping people, doing things for them, listening to them.... being good, supportive company, especially if they feel down or if they have a problem. These are good traits that anyone would appreciate.

To be honest, I have never felt that I could count on any of my friends to be there for me when I needed them! Not my sister, not my 'best friend', not my friend from the trip and definitely not the friend from my dream. I have always had the impression that I'm on my own when it comes to dealing with problems. They are always busy, distracted, tired, dismissive (that's the worst one) or just unavailable (not answering or replying.)

Strangely enough, I have always felt that I have been there for them when they have been in trouble. But perhaps my mind is twisting things.

I think I have a few issues to work through regarding emotional intimacy and trust... because while I crave emotional connection, I seem to have trouble with it too.

Part of the problem is that I have an idealized view of what friendship should be. I keep thinking back to my teenage years and the fun I had with friends back then and I want everything to be easy and simple and innocent again. But my friends and I have all 'been through the mill' now and nothing is ever going to be simple again. It's like all the fun times are over and we are just left with adult woes which seem to be never-ending.

So I really have to accept reality and accept that life is not all dancing and laughing and staying up to 5 am talking under the stars. That kind of thing just doesn't happen to regular adults... it only happens in the movies.... and even then, it only happens to very good-looking people.

Still, I kind of have some suspicions that there are people out there really enjoying themselves and feeling very accepted by and connected to their friends.... I suppose these are the same people who have never suffered MI?

The good news is that I did hear from my friend from the trip- she answered my message. This is a great sign, as it means she is prepared to keep on trying with our friendship, at least to some degree. Well, we left on good terms, anyway.

Hi @Sahara

It's good to read that you have had a good day. I ended up going to my best friends house and had a good wing-wag. They can't believe I am still sane with what I live through - I tell them it's about blocking it out when I have peace and making the most of that time for equilibrium (sanity). And I have the love of my husband which goes along way.....We always have a good laugh also when we get together.

@Sahara human nature can lean towards selfishness in a lot of us. Sounds like you have been a true friend but your friends and family aren't as selfless. If you are doing all I suggested and you can't rely on these people at your darkest times - if it were me I would begin to shift my time and energy on making new acquaintances and friends. It's not good enough @Sahara in my humble opinion and I dont blame you for feeling disillusioned with them. If you were that good a friend with me I would give back to you tenfold. I never take anyone for granted and appreciate true offers of friendship. As the latter is rare and not easy to find admittedly. But it's out there. And The fact that you have been so giving - you are undoubtedly the person I described and expressed admiration for in my last post. Don't lose you because others can't recognise your beauty. I really like you and I never say anything I don't mean. You are good to chat with. A gift.

My friends are givers - I met the latest ones through charity work and their characters were more selfless to start with. The type of people I like to make an effort with. Do you know others that give their time willingly to help others? They usually make the best of friends - that's what I have found.

You would love one of my closest friends - she dances the night away, is kind, fun, strong and intelligent. She has the type of fun you mentioned regularly whilst holding a good (although stress job) and she loves life. Although 50 she has the energy and outlook of someone who is 15.

Only problem is she is German and lives in Germany (she has never been outside of Europe but speaks and writes English better than a lot of Australians I know.)On top of all that she volunteers her time to help the disabled at their special Olympics oversea (I think the last one was in France). She has a heart of gold and yes, I don't think she has ever suffered MI issues but her friends have and she is always there for them. And we are always there for each other by email. We are like sisters. So adults like this do exist. So don't give up on that dream. Joining dance groups, dinner parties etc - you are bound to meet people like that. It's just putting ourselves out there and getting to know others first before we allow them closer. I am a big believer in self preservation having been abused and traumatised in the past. But I am positive about it all at the same time.

Great news that you heard from your friend from the trip - there's something there that keeps you both connected - it's just now you are evolving and want more/better and need more, and I say go for it and don't look back. I see a lot of dating sites on the internet but never have I seen sites where people are just looking for platonic friendships with people of the same gender. I think that is a big shame as many are feeling like you do and there is a need for something like that out there. Maybe I will look into starting something - who knows. Enjoy the rest of your evening. I so enjoy our chats my friend. Hugs 🤗🌹

Hi @Sahara. Apart from lousy country internet connection, I started to feel a bit of an addiction to posting and checking to see if anyone had replied or 'liked' or agreed with me. Not a healthy thing in my opinion. I gave up Facebook long ago and avoided forums after a really bad experience of being attacked, as I mentioned. Not suggesting that this conversation is unhealthy. I was posting elsewhere on the forum, and had an insight into an issue that had been bothering me for years. That was, 'what is a victim mentality?' What the Hell does that mean? And if I have it, how do I un-have it please? Ha ha ha.

now I have observed it here on this forum at last (not right here). I can see how there is a stage (I think) of trauma or depression when , whilst claiming to be seeking help and support, there is actually a closed mindset that just wants to complain and cry out 'my suffering is worse than yours' and kind of a rut that involves lashing out at others and kind of wanting (or being compelled) to stay stuck and not accept responsibility for one's own healing. In this instance, the kind of words or personal insights I have to offer - born of personal experience of recovery- are not heard for their intention, but dismissed as unsolicited advice. Or incompetent. Or moralistic (a crime of the present day). Whatever. Unwanted, in short. I see that we tend to want a 'cure', rather than acknowledge that recovery is a shift in our way of BEING that requires enormous deep inner change. And I find that I am NOT a victim. Phew.

And whilst I still have PTSD symptoms, I am well into recovery.

Neither I think are you or others still in this conversation 'victims'. Being able to share tactics or strategies for coping is liberating here. Both the giving and reading of 'unsolicited advice'. Ha ha ha.

but that's just my trip. In life, I have been doing as @Former-Member mentions. Nurturing my real life friendships. My current friends are few. At one stage of my trauma, I found that allies (people who stick by you) were far more important for my survival of an on-going crisis than superficial friendships. I discovered boundaries - a revelation- and started 'enforcing' them for my own self preservation. Now I cherish the few with all my heart. And that includes a couple of new friends of the type you have both mentioned. Compassionate caring souls, whose opinions might differ from mine but who are able to set aside the huge need to be right that each of us has. Until we challenge our own tendency to succumb to CONFIRMATION BIAS - twisting any and all incoming information to confirm the decision we have already made. It's the 'normal' way of being.

seems your dream has sparked a reassessment of your friendships too. personally, I still have momentary feelings of guilt or shame about dumping people who I might reasonably formerly believed would be there for life. But if I meditate or ruminate deeply on it, I then rest easy that I have done the right thing for the person I want to be moving forward. Boundaries I learnt are about setting parameters for how we want to be treated, and that's fair enough. So, if I don't want to be mocked, undervalued, lied to, judged, constantly criticised or used - or gossiped about (a biggie) - then I find a skilful way (if I can) to articulate that. If the boundary keeps being broken, or the person gets angry and abusive at the very suggestion that they are not perfect, I let them go. Now I'm at the rectification stage, and the wasteland that was the landscape of my personal relationships is beginning to bloom like the aftermath of a bushfire! If it weren't for the crisis, I'd still be hangin with the wrong crowd man!

Thanks for the invitation to post. I can write or talk about this deep stuff until the cows come home. But I have a fledgling new person inside just learning to walk out of trauma, so I don't want to form any new addictions. New friendships need space and time too. It's been great to find you guys.

Oh, and another thing @Sahara! About an idealised view of friendships?

Ditto. One of my big realisations was that, raised as a Christian, I had mistaken one of the famous directives, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I had somehow grown to expect others to treat me as I would treat them , which is not the same thing at all!

as @Former-Member mentions, learning to give and expect nothing back in return (or worse, cope with betrayal back in return) is an enormous life skill that is very hard to learn. I'm still working on that one. But one day I hope to not even feel a glimmer of hurt when a kindness of mine is returned with cruelty or whatever. Wouldn't that be great?