Church Matters (no mockers please)

Thanks no good buddy. Is your arthritis localised to one area or generally everywhere?

I caught the gist of what was happening for you over the last few days but didn't read everything. Seems like you have been having a really tough from people that really should know better - as far as I know christianity should be about acceptance and inclusiveness - not making people feel alienated and inferior!

You don't deserve any of that!

I've certainly been better! Definitely was hoping after being on such a high last weekend if the low was coming - didn't want to pre-empt it in anyway but from experience the highs don't stay up for too long.

Was really ready to confront some stuff with psychologist and the session took a turn I did not expect. She was basically asking me a question - that she already knew the answer to - but it was the words she used and the way she asked it that she hadn't done before. I became really distressed as it was the first time anyone, including me, had put it into the words she used (quite bluntly), It kind of made me realise, for the first time, the enormity of the situation and wonder how I survived. Really wanted her to take her words back and for me to stay in denial.

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@TAWNEY wrote:

Especially in relation to MI, in the church, because even thats viewed as a lack of faith, a choice, more so than physical illness. A friend once told me 'despair is a sin' (to be turned away from), hello, I'd give anything to stop hurting that much.

Any ministers on the forums? If I was one of your flock, what would you say?

I oft wonder, if there was NO church, would the world remember Jesus? If there were no christian nations (no west), what would the world look like today? There'd certainly be no Christmas.

xox

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Hi @Former-Member

You have raised some interesting points - I would say most of us can relate in someway. Please remember that "no one can judge you unless they have walked a mile in your shoes". Did the woman whom stated that despair was a sin lose a child? Or abused as one? She may have meant well my friend but people won't understand unless they have been through it. Best when it comes to MI or distress is to talk with others and seek support from those whom relate and have had success in handling it. They may be people of faith or no faith. Those whom have true compassion for you. For whatever ones beliefs are the latter is what is healing. And there is so little of it unfortunately...When I discovered this when ill, instead of getting more depressed I vowed to fill that void. And that helped me somewhat be stronger.

If there was no church would the world remember Jesus? I think the world has already pretty much forgotten about Jesus as we witness the true meaning of this year is becoming lost. All about consumerism now. I am not a regular church goer but I am a believer - for me what is important in Christianity is the commandments. That is what values/morality is based on. And Jesus came and preached them, lived them and fulfilled them. And what a cross that can be! (hence why there are so few genuine followers)- but worth it in the end.

When one does not have a moral compass they will hurt themselves and others. That has been my life experience and so the commandments makes sense to me, and being the only answer to peace if upheld means coming from a higher source. As human nature can't seem to achieve it throughout history. The rest of organised religion to me is man made and can be interrupted to ones own agenda. Depending on whom is "leading the flock" and whom assists - determines the credibility of that particular church/organisation. Whether they are genuinely driven by divinity, selflessness, purpose or self interest will determine the credibility of that particular church or organisation. And if those who have influence and lead are strong and genuine enough to call out the Judases that seek its downfall (which was the downfall of the Catholic Church - weak leaders "at that time". Not necessarily before or after). That's my personal opinion on it.

Look at every hurt and injustice in the world and you can see that it's broken one of these ten commandments. They were left to protect us from ourselves but so often are ignored. That's the part of religion I focus on and see the sense in - love thy neighbour - simple really. But we complicate it. Some call it weakness, human nature, vice, selfishness or sin. But all means the same.

But even that can be misinterrupted. Loving your neighbour does not mean putting up with abuse or ill treatment and injustices. It also means loving ourselves which calls for self respect and justice by peaceful means.

Mental illness can be part of physical illness and not always a result of bad decisions or poor judgement/self inflicted/self abuse/negative thinking (as I assume that's what your friends meant as "a choice"). It can be the result of abuse inflicted on us or witnessing trauma. So many things. People want MI as much as they would choose cancer. No one wants the pain. I am with you there!! It's usually a complication of many ills and different circumstances as everyone is different. And no one can judge unless they are in that situation.

Thats my rant my friend. Growth in Spirituality is important to become whole as a person. Some find it in church, in a purpose or through values they were bought up on and life philosophies/ideals. But most seek something as it's a very real internal need. Ignoring it results in emptiness in my life experience and what I have witnessed.

When it comes to Church, religion and/or life philosophies/ideologies - my stance is take from it what inspires, guides and strengthens you to be a better person, to be happier, to be more whole. What can help others. And ignore what does not feel right to you. Don't do it to please others. As this is not about them but between you and God only. LIke in anything there will be flaws as no human is perfect and in some cases not all have genuine intentions. It's seeking out the roses amongst the thorns. More importantly be true to yourself and follow your heart. Hugs 💕🌹

The really weird thing @Former-Member and @Former-Member

Is that in spite of all the church abuse scandal

I only had one negative interaction with a priest in an intermittent lifetime of being involved. its the laity I had a harder time with.

I have mentioned this to the lady who works with the Abishop .. took her a while to :"get" me .. but I think she finally has .. however I am getting curry from a lawyer lady at the moment .. I am sick of having to go through a 5 year proving ground for every newbie on the church site .. so I am making phone calls .. regarding current justice issues ...and not against the church ...and working within THE LAW of the REALM.

Thats my irony .. I would not have survived but for the true charity within the church .. as a kid and then as an adult discussing issues with adult who happened to also be priests. There were many who had charity in spirit which was just as important as the practical stuff.

I wonder of the lawyer lady will be their for Midnight mass.

I put my sister and mum in the MEMORIAL BOOK today .. another job ticked off the list ..

@Appleblossom made a very important point above I believe. Judging on whether a religious organisation is genuine or disingenuous; whether it is good for us or not, is its presence and experiences of "lived charity". Not just talk but in action (you will know them by their fruits). Whether this outweighs the negative or disingenuous in the group/organisation as there are always a few bad eggs. Thank you all for the interesting conversation.