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Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Creating a space here for us to share our Grief and Loss experiences. All kinds but mostly bereavement.
- Tell us about your loss?
- What 3 things you miss most?
- What would you like to tell friends to say, do or be - to lighten the load?
- What have you learned about loss that you didn't know before?
- Do you have any quotes, links, books, organisations etc, related to loss, that you'd like to pass onto others?
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WHAT IS GRIEF?
GRIEF: The normal process of reacting to a loss. Loss is subjective but usually the loss is: Physical Loss (such as a death), Social Loss (such as divorce), or Occupational Loss (such as a job or an established role & purpose). Emotions distress to Grief & Loss can include anger, guilt, anxiety, confusion, sadness, and despair.

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In response to: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

AN ABC ARTICLE / INTERVIEW ON TRAUMA with Gary, a survivor, rang true with me, in the way he articulates so well the private psychological impact of trauma. I was surprised how similar the feelings are even though his loss, surviving a catastrophic bushfire was so different to mine ( the loss of my girl to sudden illness). I've summarised his comments here to maybe help others:

GARY'S DESCRIPTION OF LIVING WITH TRAUMA
Being a survivor can sometimes feel like inhabiting a shadowland. At a certain point people stop wanting to hear that you're suffering. People do expect you to have moved on. I mean, I can remember even after the first week I was sort of told - 'could I be a bit positive and uplifting for other victims' Many expect victims after only one week to move on and to be talking about the future which of course was the last thing you actually felt or could think about. Some people, a lot of people, are still sympathetic but most just sort of shrug - so you internalise a lot of it, apart from when you're with fellow survivors, and that's really the only time now when you can talk openly and honestly about what's going on in your life and how you're coping. Call it compassion fatigue, call it forgetting - either way, the trauma kinda becomes a secret one carries around, an internal burden. Even when ones life seems to bear little resemblance to the one before. Material things just don't have the importance they once did.

Accepting & letting go is slow. I'm a little further down the road than I was, but I don't think the road will ever finish. People talk about how things will get better but every individual's case is a different rate of getting better — if it does get better. It would be nice to say selling up & moving away helps one to move on. But in actual fact, we move but not necessarily moved on. The memories, good or bad, are powerful, we miss the good and try to delight in recalling them, but the good is forever clouded by that terrible day. And walking away from long time familiar surroundings has been like losing an old friend in itself. In no way would I say it's part of the healing process. It's part of the forgetting process. In a way yes, I'm coping — 'I'm fine'. But one's definition of 'fine' changes after a thing like that. I mean you do get those daily flashbacks.
After that day, even ones career becomes less important. Gary ( journalist) found himself torn in two directions. I thought about the role journalists perform, whether what they do is fair on the victims of trauma. And I guess my conclusion was that in a lot of the cases, it's not fair. I think I just came to the conclusion that a lot of what we did was not so much a waste of time, but it was no longer relevant to me. Certainly daily journalism, I just find that now, in a way, irrelevant.

- - -

The full article / interview with Gary "LIFE AFTER BLACK SATURDAY" can be found:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-12/life-after-black-saturday-journalist-gary-hughes/8256890

In response to: Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Gee, @Former-Member

I hope that @Appleblossom and @Decadian read this thread.....

I certainly got calm whe n reading it.

You got me interested with

"forgeting stuff

Inhabiting a shadowland.

You have gotten more of a grip on yourself. It's been showing to me at least in how you dealt with that trip you took to your family.....

You are beautiful.

Im trying to work out what hold some family members had over me when I was dealing with my son's illness. I think that they intellectualized my .... shadowland.....

I cant explain it but it was if when I was trying to cope with just getting through day by day, even their dreams were centred on me while they interpreted them putting me as the 'mad one,' in them.

They not only wanted to stop seeing me suffering but blame me for my son's problems in dealing with what he was going through and refocus on just themselves.

One of my family members was a councellor and this person told me where I was going wrong because he/she had a dream over me and it really intimidatted me.

Thank you for writing this. IT's helped me understand a very small amount of myself.....

PP

In response to: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Thanks @PeppiPatty, grief circumstances are different but felt similar in the heart, nice to know were not alone. How ya going in yourself? Everyone's complaining about the heat this summer. How is it for you?

In response to: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

In response to: Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Dear @Former-Member

One day, I'll be able to get away from sane Forums and get my other stuff on going but I read your message...oh wow......it's good.

I live in WEstern Australia, My husband and I were daydreaming that you people pver east and us may change conditions for summer? We are usually sweaty and hot hot but no, the weather here is just lovely.

How is it being at home?

PeppiPatty

In response to: Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Hi @Former-Member and @PeppiPatty

You have both written such indepth stuff here - I don't think I can add much to individual comments except that I don't know about "intellectualising our Shadowland" - it's a real place we go to and why forget? -

Trauma is painful and when I have my PTSD moments of my car accident - which last less that a second - I flip back there - and yes - if it helps - the PTSD about that is so much less than it was - time and therapy help

But about the trauma we have experienced - I don't know if I can ever forget about the events in my life that have helped define me - they all led to a process that has brought me to a better place

You have both said so much - but here - why do we feel guilty about being the survivor? - a school teacher told me my son was a survivor and would be here long after she and I were gone. I don't know about her but I am here 30 years after the event -

And at that time - before my son died - for some years I knew he would die from his behaviour - and I carried it - and as it got near the end I survived a car accident that could have taken me - and I had promised to take the kids for a joy flight but cancelled at the last minute because of the high wind - and took them somewhere else - and driving home behind the airport saw one of those small planes tangled in the barbed-wire a the end of the runway

I survived and my son took his life - but I don't think I have to feel guilty about that

And I don't think anyone need feel guilty about being the survivors either

But the truth is that people do - look - I read through your posts fairly quickly and might have missed something - but one thing is that we cannot forget our past without it coming back to bite us in a different way - and who survives is not our decision - whatever we believe in - there are higher powers at work in the universe than ourselves

I believe in God and the promise that he does not expect us to endure more than we can - and at the point of our lives when my son died - neither of us could continue the way things were

I know both of you have been through extreme life events - and I do understand - but there are so many people try and take our experience from us or try and make it less

But it is what it is - and we are entitled to our grief and pain - it is ours - we own it - we earned the right to have it and we are allowed to have the experience

But of course it hurts - of course it hurts

Lots of hugs

Dec

In response to: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

@PeppiPatty, I'm glad when you pop up here on the forums, and hope you never leave, but understand we all need to pull back and forth with it. You're a blessing you know xox

@Decadian, hi. How are you today? Still in the oven down south? we are - 42 yesterday, already 37 on my veranda 😞
This grief & trauma, its all 'relative' - so very personal. Hope it didn't trigger you. Flashbacks are hard and things trigger us.

Only this morning my ma was talking about my uncle's last days (his wife her sister visited mum), in detail, inc aspiration (like my girl), as if I had no feelings or had never lost my girl. Then she went on about my sisters conversation with her this morning (the sister that has cut me off), my bros 'secret' new address they're exchanging photos over... as if my being 'left out' I don't matter. The big bro, the one who .... me, and cut me off when I asked him to apologise 'just once'

Yep, ma knows these people hurt me but, as usual, what I feel just doesn't matter. I usually think its accidental, her clumsy way of trying to o keep me involved, but also sometimes I wonder if she deliberately brings up hurtful things. If I get personal - ma changes the subject to 'her' pain (which is always 'worse' grr), or some recent media coverage.

I really must find a subtle way to terminate triggering conversations. At least now, through therapy, I am more in touch with my internal responses BEFORE they escalate out of control so much (blaming / overreacting). Yes, it hurts that my sis talks to mum and not me and is involved helping our older 'big' joke of a brother (he interfered with us as children and never said sorry), yet my sister still shuns me (slap in the face, how can anything I have ever done be worse than what he did?) and...

Yep, it goes on, the hurting with family. But to not have them hurts too (all accept big bro. never been close). I don't know how much forgiving can change someone else, hang on, it can't. lol Just have to figure out a life, as @faith-and-hope ssuggests, a life with my 'Friend Family' (missing you lately F&H)

Gotta go have breakfast / brunch I guess. Check in later xox

In response to: Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Hi @Former-Member

No - you didn't trigger me - I have read so much of what your mother is like I understand - I understand what you are feeling and what your mother is doing - it was hard to stick in there at the start when you were at your parents' place - but it was good that I did

I don't know why your mother is the way she is and about mine - I did and internal journey to get to know her - I spoke to my Dad's brothers and remembered everything I could and even went to Canberra to the war memorial to find out about her father - and yes - she had a rotten life and was co-dependent with her mother, my father and TS - and I can understand the way she was - and forgive that - but the behaviour - she had control over that so that is harder to deal with - but she is dead and can't hurt me any more now so it's easier

But I still don't understand the behaviour at all

And your mother seems the same - except it seems to be really cutting - and what my mother said was cutting - and I can tell you a bit of my story because I walked away from my family for years at a time sometimes - and about 2.5 years before she died I saw my mother and she snarled

"Gitoudahere"

As apparently she did to everyone - so I walked up to her bed where she turned her face to the wall and said

"Mum - you have been driving me away all my life and if you do it today I am not coming back"

And she didn't move - so I opened the door and stood there for a few minutes waiting and hoping - and I walked out and never went back

I sent her short notes in cards telling her I wanted to see her - with my phone numbers - every few weeks - and I rang her once and she gave the phone back to the nurse without speaking to me when it wasn't TS - and I never had a reply to my mail - and I had enough - and I still loved her but I didn't like what was happpening and I don't feel guilty even though TS tried to lay a guilt trip on me. And TS was reading my mail and not responding herself and when mum was in hospital TS said if I ever had it in my heart to visit my mother I should go that day - and I did

Crap - yes - I understand Tawney - I have been through it - and I could never talk about my son to her - she would get upset - and to this day I think if my mother got upset she could have endure the death of her grandson - but no - it was as if it had never happened

I know how heart-breaking this is - for me in my situation and for you in yours

And I know TS was caring for my mother and her affairs - and I know you did so much for your parents out of love for them - but I can only be honest out of my own experience - if your mother treats you like that - then keep away - because she will open every wound you have - whether she knows it or not

The difference between your mother and mine is that I don't think my mother was suffering dementia until Dad died - (oh God - today would be his 97th birthday - no I didn't just think of it)

But when Dad died Mum totally dropped her bundle and was really nasty

I think your Mum does have some kind of MI - along with cancer - and you have these brothers being helpless parasites - so it seems - and I can only feel that unless you can see them for a day or even less - it is better to stay away

That is only a suggestion - you are free to do what you choose - but to have someone cut you as your mother does has no future - and this doesn't trigger me now that I understand more - but for your sake I really feel the connection and I know how hard it is - but no one has the right to treat us the way our mothers have treated us -

It is my opinion that when we are adults - even when we are children - our parents still have to respect us - and when they don't - I can remind you of a Bible verse - and something I wrote in a letter to my father years ago

Yes - it tells us to Honour our Mother and our Father - but in Eph. 6 it also says - "Parents do not provoke your children lest you discourage them" - and in that letter to my father I told him I felt provoke to the point that I was thoroughly discouraged - and

The good news is that Dad was really angry - and we had a stand up fight about it and he realised I would never lie and from that time on Dad and I were on good terms and he kept Mum and TS in line until he died 6 years ago

I am so sorry you are living through this - torn two ways - and suffering if you go there and feeling terrible if you don't - and I also know the loneliness of not having access to your family because of this kind of situation - I used to feel lonely and wretched at slammed doors, phones banged down and mail returned

Yes - I do know Tawney - and I care a lot - and wish it was different

I can see it too - and although today I am not triggered - I can feel your pain

Lots of hugs

Dec

In response to: Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

@Former-Member

I am really glad you wrote what you did - I just read your post again - about your brother interferring with you and your sister and there is so much dysfunction there - it's a real puzzle

Dec

In response to: Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Re: Let's talk about Grief & Loss

Yep, puzzling indeed, messes with my head!

I have yet to 'reconcile' - how to live the 'christian' faith with such a family as this?

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