Let's talk about Grief & Loss

I can truly understand that @Former-Member

What can I say?

Um yes - be honest with yourself about how dysfunctional it all is - and that you cannot have excaped untouched by all of it

By this I mean - accept yourself that your mother's behaviour is unacceptable and that your father has his demented "happy place" and that your brothers are being badly behaved and whatever has caused that and the results are real - and there is nothing at all you can do with all of that - including your sister - she's as scarred as everyone else

There is this concept of loving and forgiveness in Christian teaching and I hear people saying that the Bible contradicts itself - and as a reader and scholar of Comparative Literature I know that the Bible has different writers with different ideas - and with my education I feel okay with interpretation

So - here's the thing - forgive the people - yes - go on and on and on forgiving the people

But the behaviour - no - don't - you can't alter what they are doing and it only hurts you to put yourself in the path of the behaviour that hurts you so much you are caught there when you only want to help and make life easier - believe you - it will only make you uhappy and question yourself

And you are doing the very best you can

And although I don't feel lonely often now - I really do know what you feel - or something like it - because for years I would walk along the beach - crying sometimes - hurt to my bones - with my birth family, my son and his destructive and increasingly criminal behaviour and my sham of a marriage that had ceased to be a marriage -

What can anyone do in the face of such destruction?

What I said about acceptance - you need to find a way to accept this as it is - and don't feel badly yourself that you have to keep away from it

I pray about TS - I pray a lot - and my prayers are that someday she might become reasonable - not really every expecting that it will - and to protect myself - and feel unhappy - she is not someone I can feel comfortable around and I am allowed to feel unhappy. You are allowed to be unhappy. There is nothing at all wrong with being unhappy sometimes.

You are not at fault - you are not a terrible person - you did not cause this - and you have to find a way to love yourself -

Maybe then - able to accept the situation, be unhappy, sometimes - and lonely - sometimes - and know you are not at fault and take this to God and tell him your sorrows

That's all - I hope this helps - there was a time when what went on in my family was destructive. No one seemed to understand but I understand you and other people -

It hurts us to be with them and it hurts us not to be - and we are still at the mercy of the bloody text messages - so ingore the texts - delete them - and let your brothers muddle through - I believe if they can text they can wash the dishes

And when your mother finally passes - be stronger because you have sent her a kind comment in return for her bitternness and wait - she can't help herself - but like me - don't stand in the way of it

I'm sorry about your situation Tawney

Dec

The practical stuff you did will always hold firm. @Former-Member You did the right thing to go and I felt they needed it with all the chaos and problems. Your instinct was probably attuned to the most necessary as you know them all and know nursing.

Even if there is a little shift towards sanity and better communication, that is also a huge outcome.

Glad it helped. Competitiveness is so tricky .. also from the previous topic

"intellectualisation" does not mean our intellectual life is not a valuable part of life .. we need to integrate experience and feelings with our minds and intellects ..its the mind body spirit connection ..

and the "shadowlands" of grief .... are transitional as we do the grief work .. but this business of get it over and done with already .. is ridiculous ..and should not be pathologised

I am waiting for societies pendulum swings ... back to slower and less superficial obssessions with youth and fear of death ...

I sometimes think that anthropolgy has a lot to say .. about rites of passage .. overcoming fear .. and pain .. and connection with ancestors and our dead ... and that if we managed it better socially we would have less MH issues ..

Someone once said .. "everything" triggered me ... and that was when my brother was still alive ...

for a long time it did ... any word .. or image or glance .. and after about 10 years ... I had managed to cut it back to about 100 trigger words that would sens me off .. if I was engaged .. or totally detach .. if I did not want to .. now maybe I am finally starting to have more choice and be able to make a half rational decision about how I engage .. maybe its down to about 30 main triggers ..

having children does help us all, including the boys, open our eyes to seeing things more wholistically rather than just from the point of view of our gender or sibling order or pet hobby horses.

Today I walked past the building where my daughter has started her new job.

I also visited my ex uncle in law ... last week .. the one with BiPolar and serious TD and (MA psych) we hugged .. I cant visit too much as he is now divorced ... but I did quietly mention I was not impressed with his ex .. my aunt.

and he said how hard it was as his dog died and it was like losing a family member .. he was studying me closely for reactions ,,, I just calmly agreed ... I knew he was also allowing it as a gentle passing acknowledgement of the massive grief I had experienced . but it was not the time to delve .. and no need ...he has been the MOST REAL about all the issues ... despite his MH issues and the APPARENT lack of MH issues in the rest of the family ...

I am coming to the belief that my own biological family members are confused with their own sense of guilt and responsibility about not being there for us ... the only 2 I speak with are my son and youngest still living brother B2 .. neither of whom had much to do with B2 joining the family at the end .. yes he was ridiculously competitive and that probably upset my B1 a lot .. but their circs were so different ... and it certainly didnt effect the affection and respect I had for B1 .. but I think it is boy thing too ...and by the time B2 joined ... B1 was showing a lot of BPD traits ..

and my poor son was 20 months when B1 died but because he had to deal with witnessing major violence at that age .. it made it really tricky .. for him and I ...

All the other gamily members and there are about 12 mature well to do ... now ... and there offspring who have cut and ridiculed me.

I cant visit th

Hi @Appleblossom, I hear you, so many broken relationships - so hard. Sometimes it seems the living deaths are so much harder to bear. How hard it must be to have a child around you can't reach. Does she have children herself? Wonder if that will help. I just had convo with my son & he defended my sis not having time to see me because I "didn't give her enough notice" (1hr, but she knew I was at mums for 2wks never once initiating contact with me, even when she rang mum in my presence). Its hard. For many years I encouraged him to have relationships with his extended family (feeling inadequate after a breakdown), now that key relationship is being used to come between us. How dare they come between mother & son, the evil of it! She has a history of replacing people. Also, I know there's a powerful teaching amongst MH professionals to sever from relatives with MI. Because of my breakdowns (suicidal depression, before my son was born & after his sister died), that marks me as having MI, which I know my son is disappointed by.
Anyway, with you, I am so sorry your life has been so hard and pray for you some wonderful times on earth before you are called home. There's a bible verse of hope - that "our suffering today cannot be even compared to the eternal glory that awaits us". Just have to give the timing to God and do the best here with what we have. You may not know it but you still being here, after so much loss, brings me great hope to go on (it can be done). You are a blessing sis. Let's both just self care pamper the rest of tonight, big hugzz xox

DEarest @Owlunar @Decadian

Im slowly getting off for a while...

But I have much respect for you. I don't know if I explained myself and am good at writing but her ...thats @Former-Member message meant something to me.

In my life:

When this person wrote to me about HIS/HER dream that he/she wrote was awful for me and affected me for years. It took me years to rip myself away from his/her influence.....yes, it was because of the University dregrees that I was so impressed with not that person.

But I am tired, really tired. Can I speak about this more when I coe back, I always love what you write....you are very wise.....

With much care to you @Decadian

PP

My daughter has twins (boy&girl 2yrs old) not her DNA but her female partner .. through in vitro .. so she is doing things differently to me.

Its harder than I can say .. been a torture since she was born .. not her but the close inspection of the comparison of my mothering of the 2 girls, but she would not know .. just felt all my turmoil.. my psych who I have had 12 sessions with .. says .. it has all been too hard .. I have barely touched on my relationship with the girls .. just given her about 7 pages of notes ..

I cant believe I have accepted it ...I wanted to be a good mother so much .. but none of it is my choice .. though one silly counsellor at the law courts said .. it was my choice to leave (after one session they think they can make such assertions) .. she did not realise my physical pain in marriage was .. mostly a 9-10 .. to get it down .. has been rehab exercise and careful monitoring ..

I had to let go of my daughter .. I managed to arrange for her to get into a select entry school ..she became very independent and opportunities to study and live abroad and worked her butt off and made good choices ..

I had a bedroom for her .. but she stayed overnight only a few times ... she was vocal and well able to look after her needs .. tho we will never know what she has missed .. the last dozen times .. I saw her were so strange ..

The marriage was a war zone .. it was like people in germany or holland sent their children to England or South Africa .. to safety with relatives .. I sent her to my mother to live in a house with 2 uni students .. so that was a choice ... and then

at least I got her away from the control of her older sister .. who was wagging school and doing piercings and playing Madame .. and still is working poker nights ...

I think family dynamics is scary to counsellors who are not trained in it .. and they just focus on the person in front of them .. that has skewed some of the natural balances ...

then again it is more complicated treating a group than one ..

Run into our old (family therapist director) at a parents night when my son was in a groovy elite school but he only stayed with his dad for 3 months .. and came home to music with mum .. I had even let go of him too .. that 3 months .. was bad .. but I know I promoted family relationships and did not block them .. even for the step .. and thats that ..

I have heard lots p.o.v.s from both sides of the mental health fence .. eg those with LE and their parents ... . its just rife ... so so common .. its scary .. yes in my choirs .. all the top ones .. tragic stories .. and suicides .. admissions .. MI .. I no longer feel an alien .. it doesnt bring my loved ones back .. .. it is teaching me not to carry grudges .. helps me to know we all struggle .. human condition

my daughter does not approve of counselling or religion or ... me .. solid lesbian feminist atheist ...

but she has also missed out on a great deal .. I think it is amazing she has achieved so much .. but I am focussed too .. and she is very like me .. so I am just quietly proud of her tho sad we cant share our lives .. maybe one day .. I keep my heart open for her .. but dont hanker ... but have to model a productive life for my son .. so pull up the bootstraps ..

it was weird .. walking past her building ..

it felt oddly comforting .. to know ... ah you go there 5 days per week ..

I often thought I would go to her partners place of work (fancy school) and cause a scene .. did speak to the principal .. she was my daughters teacher... but it is the way the world is going .. and they do care for each other ..

Hi @Former-Member

That's a wonderful post - no - it does not overwhelm me - it takes a lot to do that - I feel that some of the people here are so close to being my life-long friends even though I haven't actually known anyone that long and that we will never meet - I actually feel honoured to be part of your life

It seems to did do a lot of good there - and your dad with his positive call about the wheelchair - that's a plus - and conversations with your brothers - one did the dishes and took the bins out and the other could talk about computers without going on and on about the lasers - oh boy - that has to be hard when people are delusional - I can't comment on that because I don't know

Your sister want to the only girl - so does mine - bad luck - we exist in the world and as hard as they would like it otherwise - we are here and we have our place

Your mother though - she sounds as if she has a form of dementia - as does mine - I can see that with your dad and bros you can give them a bit of a point in the right direction but your mother - oh dear - how I feel about that one - very much like mine - to pick and pick at the inconsequential - that gave me such a pain when my mother was in my life -

If I took a plate of cup-cakes she'd tell Dad to take one - I had made it - but don't break your teeth on the cachoos - or try these - but they are very sweet - like a little compliment with a sting in there -

Yes - I understand - how can you clean her house that needs it with all the clutter and her defensive behaviour - she needs the help and that can be arranged - I have help twice a week and I am just so pleased that someone comes and does the chores I cannot - I am delighted.

Sure I have had a few people here who have grated - usually it's a personal issue - and they have been people who come rarely - but mostly I get on with people

I am glad these conversations have helped - I know it's a battle for you - different for me but I was driven away by my mother snarling - who would stay if ordered out?

I hope things can continue - hopefully by phone - it was too much for you living there - but you did good

Lots of hugs

Dec

Thanks @PeppiPatty

I would like to hear more when you come back

It's always good to get feedback - otherwise I might just rattle on and on and make no sense

I can wait until you get better - btw - is your tree having a bad leaf day

Sending hugs

Dec

@Shaz51, thinking of you, your mum & hubby, hugz xox