Still damned safe

@Historylover, @Appleblossom , yes, I'm still here, and still as fine as can be expected. 🙂 Thank you for your concern, all the same. I hadn't made any conscious decision to wander away from these forums, but I guess it must've happened lately, regardless. Other things going on... mind wandering elsewhere, ect.

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@Historylover wrote:

Anyway, I just wanted to check in with you. I've missed you about. You cannot imagine the delight I've had in our interactions over the past couple of years, in my most difficult times. You've brought a happy smile to my face on so many occasions, and out-loud, joyful laughter from my soul on others.

Anyway, just sending best wishes and hope all is well with you. Cheers.😊

Thank you so much for this comment on that other thread, @Historylover !😃🤗 (I'll reply to everything here, just for convienience.) It was really very uplifting and humbling! You describe the sort of person I always aspired to be, in my younger days, but that I never seemed to be able to achieve. Makes me feel like maybe I'm not a complete failure, after all.🙂

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@Historylover wrote:

@chibam. I know what you mean re trudging through dark days. I've been deep in my own, and to be honest, just can't get out of them anymore, so I'm not good company. I hope you're doing alright. And I agree re not being able to know how to help, or what to say. We can't, can we? Most of the time, I leave it to those who feel they may have a better connection to the problem, otherwise I'm just saying the same thing over and over–and I can't help myself!

I can't help but feel like it's the so-called "wiki effect" having taken over the realm of mental health while we weren't watching.

It reminds me of times when I've needed to get some sort of clarity from the ATO, Microsoft, and a few other big, complex organizations.

You go in really needing to get clear directions from a knowledgeable member of the staff; except you discover that there are no longer any direct chanels of communication to the staff anymore; and what they've done is set up community forums, so that all the equally-confused peasants can chat amongst themselves, hoping to bumble their way to a solution that really only the officials know how to attain.

It's by far a much cheaper way of managing the disgruntled masses; but you get what you pay for.

Likewise, here we all are, a bunch of hopeless individuals, totally confused about how we're supposed to make life worth prolonging; and so we get shuffled in to an online forum filled with equally-confused sufferers, under the laughable pretense that maybe we'll find an answer in a room full of people who at their wits ends for lack of having any answers.

We're talking to each other, when really we ought to be talking to somebody who's in charge.

I hear and acknowledge you have not found the support you are looking for whilst being on the forums @chibam , yet I do have to pull you up on:

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@chibam wrote:

Likewise, here we all are, a bunch of hopeless individuals, totally confused about how we're supposed to make life worth prolonging; and so we get shuffled in to an online forum filled with equally-confused sufferers, under the laughable pretense that maybe we'll find an answer in a room full of people who at their wits ends for lack of having any answers.

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I'm not sure who you are referring to when you said 'we all are, a bunch of hopeless individuals'. I'm sorry you feel this way. Yet I encourage you to look into the research about the power of peer support and community support.

I read that you have had unfortunate circumstances with 'the system' and have hence lost trust in many, yet there are also many who have thrived on the support they have received - I for starters have been using the forums for years. I have benefitted so much that I decided to look into peer work - this is not for everyone. But it shows that such supports are helpful.

Once again, I'd like to re-iterate that I'm sorry you feel like you are a part of 'a bunch of hopeless individuals', but I certainly do NOT feel that way.

Perhaps there are other forums and places where you can find supports more suited to what you are looking for?

Sorry, @tyme . I've evidantly mis-spoken. If I've cause offense, I sincerely apologize. That absolutely was not my intent.

In particular, "hopeless individuals" was very poorly-worded on my part; rattled off quickly and carelessly. What I intended to mean was "individuals in hopeless situations". I can see now that there's a potentially derogatory interpretation of "hopeless individuals" that was absolutely not my intent at all.

I also suspect that even "hopeless situations" will probably be a contentious term; and I'm not suggesting that it applies to everybody who comes to places like this; but it does at least apply to some, such as myself. "Hopeless", at least in my case, in the absence of adequate assistance.

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@tyme wrote:

Perhaps there are other forums and places where you can find supports more suited to what you are looking for?

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Well, that's the million-dollar question, isn't it? Where? I think that's the reason why so many of us wander around lost for so long, because we're told there's help out there, but nobody can tell us where it is.

I always just assumed that, if you left school with a bunch of "friends" and/or a bunch of biological relatives, help would automatically come when needed. But it doesn't work that way. It doesn't just secrete freely from the surrounding community. Apparently, you have to go to some specific place for it. And nobody will ever give you directions.

"That's your problem."

"You have to figure that out for yourself."

"I don't know" (with cheesy, mocking grin)

The ridiculous secret that everybody knows, yet nobody will ever share.

@Appleblossom,I just don't understand anyone being a Trump supporter! By what reasoning? Are Americans very uneducated, perhaps? Whenever I look at people who are rich, I assess if it suits their skill level or if it's just the consequence of their personality type (and types vary), and how they came by it...then I assess how many victims they have left in their wake. And then I back away. I'm all for achieving but if it hasn't been honestly/honourably acquired, it shows. I'll do it my way or not at all.

There was only French or German when I went to school. I did French and taught myself German when I was researching my genealogy. It was very enjoyable to get in touch with the language of some of my forebears.

You have had a very interesting life, @Appleblossom. I married a Dutchman, by the way–out of Rotterdam. It's a wonder you didn't speak Dutch. A lot of culture in your family. You are very lucky. My family didn't want to stand out, so they underplayed our social position until it became unrecognizable. I crave it and strive to get it back, everyday. I just wanted my family to want it too. I don't want to be part of a life without it. That wouldn't be life, to me. I've had that, and I never want to go back to it. It is just a very bad memory for me.

I hope you'll still be my friend if I say that I agree with your neighbour! You can answer me back too, though. I regard Australia as Boganville. Football, beer, uncultured music taste, unrefined appearance and manner, no sense of what is proper conduct in which different situation, swearing without restraint and in mixed company, sexually promiscuous and without a moral compass...I know cultured people exist, but I'm still waiting to link up with a few who share many of my tastes and opinions. I just keep looking.

Well, time moves on and I have to drop chibam a few lines too. Take care.

Makes sense @chibam - I get it.

I was a lucky one that did manage to get the most incredible support through the public MH system. But I'm afraid for many, they continue to ask, "Where?"

I definitely hear you on that one. Even if I go back and look back to where I received support and treatment, I don't think they would be able to accept me if I were to wind back the clock and rock up for their services.

To this day, I'm still in awe at how I was carried and supported through the system. To me, it doesn't make sense. But I'm glad I did get the support because now I can support others.

Thank you @chibam for understanding.

tyme

You've achieved the person you wanted to be, @chibam. You have been an absolute treat to exchange posts with over this time. I can honestly say I have never met anyone like you. Life would have been much more interesting if I had!

I'm pleased to hear you've been plodding on too. I'm feeling a little brighter today–a lot, in fact. Yesterday I wouldn't have thought it possible, but we have to just keep plodding on, no matter how difficult it gets, it seems.

I sometimes think here is the blind leading the blind, because it's all we have sometimes, and it's immediately accessible when other avenues aren't. But I'm sure countless people have been helped, countless. I certainly have and wouldn't be here without it. It's just a shame that other avenues are so unhelpful for so many. And despite it, I sometimes feel like we are used up and discarded...to society's great loss. Our day will come!😊 I know it will! We will find our way out of this maze @chibam!.

I actually find it interesting that responses to people's problems can often be so varied, so it just goes to show that therapists only have one point of view, and sometimes we might need choice.

Cheers @chibam. Take care.

Well now I am really offended, @tyme. We weren't even talking to you, yet you have taken @chibam's comment to me and responded most inappropriately.

I agree with him. This forum is priceless but all of us have a life in tatters. No? Then why are we here? Sometimes I feel like we are the blind leading the blind. Other times it is my greatest fear that this is a dumping ground, and that few of us will ever get out. Other times I despair that so many people think they that are actually being helped by their therapist when it is obvious that they are not–and I just want to scream to them "Expect more from your 'therapist'! Fifteen years and you think progress is having your medication dosage changed instead of your medication!" AARGH!

And I defend @chibam's right to express how he is feeling in his comment to me.

And I take offence at being tagged in a post about gratitude! Seriously inappropriate @tyme! Very seriously!

I'm sorry you feel that way @Historylover .

However, these forums are open to the public and as a moderator, it is important we consider the thousands of others who are reading these posts. My intention is not to offend, but to ensure the forums do not hinder help-seekers from seeking support.

You may not have been helped by therapists in the past, but there are many who have been helped.

If you'd like any clarifications, you are welcome to email team@saneforums.org

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@Historylover wrote:

You've achieved the person you wanted to be, @chibam. You have been an absolute treat to exchange posts with over this time. I can honestly say I have never met anyone like you. Life would have been much more interesting if I had!

I'm pleased to hear you've been plodding on too. I'm feeling a little brighter today–a lot, in fact. Yesterday I wouldn't have thought it possible, but we have to just keep plodding on, no matter how difficult it gets, it seems.

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Thank you, @Historylover . 😊🤗 I'm glad your feeling better. 🙂

To be fair to @tyme , my phrasing of "hopeless individuals" didn't sound very nice, and I didn't catch that until @tyme called me out on it. As I explained earlier, I intended a very different meaning; but in hindsight, I realize that I too would probably feel insulted if someone called me a "hopeless individual" and their meaning was unclear.

I see a lot of the issues coming out of a general tendency of people to over generalise. Trying to be careful with my words here.

A lot of the time I have come to accept that, and rarely take it seriously but mentally step back, and often do a work around. like taking the issue from another vantage point. In many ways I was lost in "the system"....the state wardship system in group and foster homes, and then almost felt more at home in bigger systems with clear rules of engagement that smaller social groups with "in" language or values. I knew often that whatever was being said from those with "the power" was usually not about me, but some other kid, but we all got the lecture.

Now I have significant and broad education, I can get a bit cross about all the B&W thinking and overgeneralisations I see out there among the NORMIES, who do not give it a second thought, whereas it is listed in DSM as a symptom. Its a blooming symptom of Homosapiens.(edit cos of language algorythm) The sapientia aspect...imho.

Yet often the mind tends to go in that direction with sweeping comments, so "among friends" it is easy to slip into that mode without taking into consideration all the exceptions to any given statement. For if we did that ALL the time, we would be speaking in legalese too much and communication would be clogged.

When I read your post @chibam I did not feel offence intended or taken. I got that you were mainly riffing with @Historylover and that it was mainly a statement of how you felt about yourself. I did "think" about whether I would support the whole post, as I did have the thought, that I did not agree with that small paragraph that @tyme indicated gave her concern. It was not an offence, just a mental "yes this, yes this, no that". I laughed inside when you ended with we should be speaking to those in charge. Mostly I like your thoughtful posts, and can never be bothered with nitpicking, that does not mean I do not notice subtle things. I just understand we cannot all agree on everything all the time, but we should be grown up enuff to take minor disagreements or differences with maturity. That was before I read tymes post.

In the end I supported both your apology posts because I thought that took dignity and forbearance, but I also supported tyme's post.

@Historylover

Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, re Friendship. I tend to build on common ground and take a step back when it is not. If someone continually picks a bone with me, I might stand up once or twice, but if its repeated I do back right off tho and let them go. I have to deal with constant neck pain. I am just not that interested in argument, tho was good at debating at school, never bothered with it at uni, too busy with motherhood.

We did not have the French option at my school and it always seemed mysterious to me with their weird pronunciations. Not sung much in French! Not well at least. lol.

It is usually a GOOD when we explore and respect the cultures and histories of our forebears, tho can get problematic when we live in the past. I am sad about the Leicester attacks in UK atm. Humankind has a history of migration and it can get tricky.

One line of my family was in Rotterdam during the war. Not a nice place to be, and a lot of trauma damaged individuals. Can only imagine what you went through, as my Dutch family were in "general" ambitious and focussed on getting ahead, and dropped us as the poor rellies. Not interested in defending all folk from that city, or any other city or country, religion, political persuasion or ethnicity. Open to discussion tho.

I agree with you about boganville ... a little. Sadly after my father died that is mostly what I got from the Aussie quarters, such a bloomin over dose it drove me into books literature and fine music!

I had to go back and look for more redeeming Australian culture in last few years, better than various socially based dualisms of Catholic/Protestant, Men/Women, Damned Whores or God's Police and xenophobic provincialism probably caused by The Tyranny of Distance.

Letting go of that neighbour. Learning to trust my instincts. Not investing any more deeper understanding or kindness in him, just superficial casual friendliness tho I will still have time for the family he attached himself to, (he actually does not live in my street but comes every day to visit. He also kept patronising my son and almost was mindlessly inciting violence in the protest movement last year but then smoothly denying it, and smoothly boasting of his enlightenment, but I know what I saw and heard. I also know ... he had a hard life, but many people have, and I know where my duty lies.

I did a lit major with no Aussie lit, (turned my nose up it at the time ...lol) but things have improved and I love the emergence of a local literary culture which fills in some of the gaps of why people are the way they are. Reading "Wild Abandon" by Emily Ditto atm. An old lecturer started the Stella prize .. so I keep informed and somewhat current, and Yippee I am too old now, to have to always do or read what everyone else tells me to. Sorry if my essay is too much. Take Care