Checking In

Hello @oceangirl

Thank you very much for your reply today. I am pleased that you understood the way that I was feeling last night. It is, likewise, because I find the distraction of a range of messages addressing different ideas, in close proximity to each other, distracting and, to some degree, frustrating. It was for this reason that I withdrew last night, to allow the interactions to be less complex, or maybe, less confused.

I likewise think that anxiety plays a big part in the level of energy that we use. That, I believe, can be both physical and emotional energy. It can also adversely affect our health, mentally and physically, if experienced over a relatively long period of time. That strain, that we experience, can arise from complex family and close romantic relationships, friendships, and work associations. The benefits arising from each of these relationships, thugh, can also be nurturing, supportive, assist our personal development, increase the psychological and physical returns and rewards that we can share with others.

I believe, that poisonous or toxic relationships often drain us of the benefits of the strong, positive, mutually developmental resources that we give and receive to and from our positive relationships. For this reason, it may be wise to carefully balance and maintain the mutually beneficial relationships, against those to which we give more than we receive. That is, I believe, not a selfish response, but one of self preservation. We can easily give so much as to create deficiencies in our positive reserves. At these times, our physical and psychological health can be compromised. Unfortunately, we can succumb too easily to investing so much, into some relationships, that our balance falls too far into the negative.

I understand that the forum is an environment in which we can express ourselves in different ways. I think that, partially because I am older, I find that I am less accustomed to this sort of environment. That is not a question of good or bad, but rather a question of style and familiarity. One of the issues, that I have commented on recently, with another forum friend, is that we can share information without fear of manipulation or ulterior motive, which means that, hopefully our discussions can be more open than might otherwise be the case.

I think that, if you do, or have looked at Jess O'Garr's site, particularly on schemas and their associated therapy concept, you will, I hope, connect with an understanding of the fawn/compliant-surrender ideas, whether you feel as if it may apply in some of your interactions, or not. At times, we can be working so hard to have others acknowledge and accept us, that we forget how much energy we are expending in that exercise. I think it is helpful to come back to ourselves, when we recognise that this is happening, and simply nurture our loyal and caring selves. Again I say that I think this is not selfish, but simply a matter of self preservation. The people, who match our own self perception, will often be drawn to us.

A lot of the comments, that I have made above, are interconnected with that fear of judgement. It sounds like your comment,

“coping and fear of being judged. I think that is something that I deal with the most frequently. The coping part is my way of dealing with the depression and also me not getting the help I need to.”

I'm unsure of the relationship between a) coping, b) fear of judgement, c) depression and d) not getting the help I need. Are you saying that you have most difficulty dealing with the fear of judgement, that then leads to depression?

While I agree that,

“A good Dr wants their patients to go from a place of suffering to peace.”,

I believe, that sometimes, we need to walk on a rocky path, to get where we want to go. Sometimes, doctors see that there are unresolved psychological problems that are creating blockages to realising a new better place and space. Unfortunately, the travelling along that rocky path may mean the necessity of going back over some old unpleasant territory. That sort of need is often best addressed with the help of a professional “guide”, psychologist, psychiatrist. It is a process which can be truly daunting, and met with significant trepidation, apprehension and resistance. I am, at what I would consider, the other end of my life. Recently, in part, because of the passing of my mother, who lived with me for most of the previous ten years, as well as the effects of a cyclone that precipitated my concern, I have again, sought the assistance of a counsellor with regard to my circumstances. Some of what I again need to deal with, to improve my future years, is to address issues that occurred when I was a child. I am hopeful, that by addressing and, to some degree, reconciling or possibly re-scripting some of those issues, it will make the process of engaging with my own children and grandchildren, more meaningful. What I may be saying here, is that the issues can come back to us, from time to time, and sometimes need to be attended to again. What we have experienced, doesn't necessarily leave us through guidance and therapy, but can, I believe, be changed into worthwhile and meaningful resources, for our use in the future, for our own benefit and that of others. I do not say that to scare you, but to reassure and encourage you. This might allow you to see your relationship with your GP from another perspective. However, if you feel there is some element of miscommunication or dishonesty, in the interaction between you and your GP, it would be wise, I think, to endeavour to address that, or change GP.

Another thought, that my counsellor presented to me, was that, in my 'story' there appeared to be a fear of harming others, and a conscious withdrawal from any situation that I may perceive to be a source or cause of harm to others. Those other people may be my children, family, friends or others walking down the street. I see a connection and similarity with that fear, in your comment,

“I'm someone who sees the worth in everyone and treats people with respect and to care about how I may impact others.”

That is, I believe, a worthy sentiment that paraphrases, very closely, my own feelings. In my situation, it was suggested, that there may be an element of an OCD response, in that I was always cautious, and on the look out, for any situation, where there was any possible way, that I may, even inadvertently, be responsible for any harm coming to another person through my actions. You may or may not connect with that Idea, however, I was surprised when the suggestion was made to me. I have become aware, that such a constant and prevalent concern, is a bottomless pit, into which I could sink any amount of psychological and emotional resources, with exceptionally little return to me or any one else.

The way that I can arrange, to improve my physical activity, is to avoid or overcome my fear of going outside for anything other than necessities or appointments. Then I have to service my bicycle and go for a ride for a minimum specified time each day. After that, when I have become more confident, to take my dog for a run also. That is my initial plan for exercise. I have plenty of work to do, by which I can continue to improve my exercise regime.

You are definitely enough. And usually, I shy clear of making personal observations about the qualities of people with whom I have very little contact. However, the content of what you have written and the concern, that you have expressed for others, (check out the OCD implications) indicates that you are definitely enough.

I hope that I have stimulated some consideration of the issues and possible ways and responses by which you can address them, without imposing, too much, my thoughts on your life.

With My Very Best Wishes

@HenryX

Hiw are you tiday sis @oceangirl ??
I keep forgetting to ask you- how is your dad?
♥️♥️

Hi @HenryX

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it. Its given me a lot to think about, and how I want to live my life. Its important to take stock and to assess relationships and to ensure they are good for you. And to make sure I don't invest too much in one relationship but more to people that are not good for me and I might not be good for them either.

As I am struggling with my energy levels and I need to prioritize what is important.And yes I agree with how anxiety drains us so much and I never realized then until more recently and the impact that it has on your wellbeing and physical health.

Many things trigger my depression but fear of judgement and relationships are a huge factor in my depression. Because of the anxiety associated with fear can be a catalyst for my depression

I believe we are all on a journey and life is full of ups and downs but we don't endure suffering or mental illness. There is help out there and we need to learn to reach out to others. I know I need to - it may come easier for others. Life is sweet n sour and I think having the sour parts, we can appreciate the sweet part more.

You're right issues can come back to us including various experiences in our life (good and bad). But hopefully overtime we can better understand ourselves. You seem to have a great deal of insight. I am glad you're receiving help and support (health professional). Is rescripting past expereinces, a way for you to change your mindset and to have a deeper understanding and to have more clarity in your thinking and therefore able to navigate through life more effective and to connect with others on a deeper level.

You made an intersting connection with an OCD response that I have never though about before. That has given me something to think about. It is something that I do quite often and I don't really know why I do this. However, it could be part of the fawn response. What do you think?

I would like to do more physical activity too, and coming up with a plan to make sure I am successful and improving my fitness levels. Have you done much cycling in the past? I enjoyed cycling growing up and in my teenage years. I would like to do that and to walk more too. What type of breed is your dog?

Once again, thank you for your lengthy and detailed response. I am hoping over the next few weeks I can become more physically active and to start to address some of the issues bothering me. And to start to make small changes and with that to move forward. Best to wishes to you too !!

Hi @MDT

I have not long got home and I have feed Milo. And have been reading through message here and responding. We do need to be our own best friends and to be more kind to ourselves- I agree with you Hams. What have you been up to today?

Hi my sister @BlueBay How are you sweetheart? I am feeling a bit better but also feeling tired too. My dad got good news but I am going to follow up with his Dr or ask him to phone me when he sees him tomorrow. Have a great night !!

Hello @oceangirl

It was a pleasure to have received your message reply, and to know that the ideas were meaningful for you.

You have summarised many of the thoughts and offered back examples of their possible application in your own life, which I very much appreciate. I like your analogy of life being, “sweet and sour” and the fact that even the sour has a part to play in our appreciation of life.

It's an interesting thought that our presence may actually impede the development and progress of someone else in their life. It was an idea that it took me quite a while to adjust to. The question arises,

“If we are present to someone else and we always act in ways that we consider appropriate for them, is it possible that our presence may have a negative impact for them?”

Well, I believe that it can be so. If our presence holds them in a place of stagnation, not because of what we are doing, but because we are a foil or buttress for them, our presence can hold them back. And that means that there are others who may benefit more from our presence and attention. And who, in return, can afford us with better opportunities for our own development and theirs also. Unfortunately, there is no tape measure or measuring flask to quantify such interactions, but we generally have a sense of any imbalance. I believe that your uneasiness with the person, to whom you have referred, probably indicates that sense for you.

In answer to your question about re-scripting. Yes, exactly, it is a way for me to change my mindset. There are, as with all of us, events, decisions, actions, even thoughts that we have in our lives. Of each of those, and more, there are things that we have to, or wish to own, as good and positive. The positive, good, enjoyable experiences are easy to account for and accept as part of our lives. However, there are negative, unpleasant events and additionally those, as a result of which we feel disappointed and sometimes a sense of shame. We can assume the mantle of “sack cloth and ashes”. That ever present sense of guilt drags us down, makes us less able to offer and contribute the best parts of ourselves. I am not suggesting that we try to cover up and ignore such events, over which we may or may not have had any varying level of control. I am suggesting that acknowledging and changing our approach to such events, nurtures our own spirit and leads us to a point where, if we ever find a need to, we can use our perception of such events for good, either through positive educational scripts for others or the awareness and prevention of similar things happening to, and against, ourselves and others. And sometimes there are events from the past that I need to respond to from the perspective of what I know now, not what I did not know, understand or realise the implications of many years ago. If I do not take this approach I cannot, as you expressed, say that,

“re-scripting past experiences, is a way for me to change my mindset and to have a deeper understanding of myself and others, and to have more clarity in my thinking and therefore be able to navigate through life more effectively and to connect with others on a deeper level.”

{A lovely synopsis, your words paraphrased with minor changes.}

The OCD connection was offered to me by the counsellor, not by a long way, as a diagnosis, but rather as an element of that category of symptoms that I appear to have adopted as a, possibly, maladaptive reaction to events and circumstances in my life, based on past experiences. When these observations are made, like the reference to OCD like behaviour, it can act as a springboard for further attention and discussion. I also came to realise that there were other similar examples in the way that I tended to deal with some situations.

In the observation,

“In my situation, it was suggested, that there may be an element of an OCD response, in that I was always cautious, and on the look out, for any situation, where there was any possible way, that I may, even inadvertently, be responsible for any harm coming to another person through my actions.”

I deliberately wrote that sentence in a type of broken, staccato, repetitive style, that was a verbal way of depicting the way in which I was constantly cautious and looking for, maybe possible actions or behaviour of mine, that might cause harm to others. That behaviour might be similar to the repetitive checking of locks, to see if they are secure and other like examples. Here, it is not appropriate for me to make statements about your behaviour or that of anyone else. However, I can present examples of my own behaviour, with the implied or direct question as to whether you, or any other person sees any connection, or similarity, in their behaviour with examples from my own.

My understanding of the “fawn/compliant surrender” response is where one member of a family, work or social situation, habitually complies with another, in order to avoid an, otherwise expected or anticipated, inflammatory response. I believe that there could be a connection between that and the constant surveillance for potential harm. However, I don't necessarily think that they are the same thing. In my situation, as a child, the fawn/compliant surrender response was exhibited when I habitually stayed quiet, or complied with demands, which, by my behaviour, I perceived to be a way to maintain some sort of peace and stability within the home. It became a habit. This, I believe, could have lead to the continual OCD style surveillance that later became part of my lifestyle.

As a child I rode to school, used a bicycle for a paper delivery run, and used to go on extended bike hikes, in Victoria, around Wangaratta and as far as Mansfield. I really enjoyed the freedom of cycling. More recently, after back operations, I went back to cycling, since I had difficulty walking because of balance problems. That was about ten years ago. Since then, my main attention was given to my mother, with whom I had the pleasure and privilege of sharing the ten years till two years ago when she passed away. I am now trying to motivate myself to “get up and cycling (running) again.” There are good cycling areas around where I live, with gently undulating hills and reasonably good roads.

My dog is a Kelpie/Labrador cross, dominant Kelpie, so very active and a delightful companion.

I hope that some of these ideas will be helpful for you, @oceangirl

With My Very Best Wishes

@HenryX

@MDT It sounds like you had a nice day, Hams. Good luck with your job application. I went to the sanctuary and just been looking after Milo and tidied up at home. Tomorrow taking Milo back to the specialist surgeon and hope he is happy with him. He seems to be doing really well.