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A long rave

A long rave

Edit Feb 2018: This thread has evolved into a chat thread, which is fine by me. In addition, I encourage other members to feel free to post their own 'long raves' in here too if wished. I will continue to post my own longer raves from time to time, as well as chat with friends along the way.

Original post from May 2016:

First of all, a (very) long post alert. Please don't feel obliged to read or respond. Mainly I am writing today to clear my own head of some things. So, here goes...

Last week, I managed to get to all planned appointments and activities every day of the week except Sunday. That only amounts to one, maximum two, per day, but was an improvement on previous weeks and months. I've made all planned appointments in a week before, but there have not been so many appointments in so many days consecutively. Many of you will know that, prior to about mid last year, I spent years very rarely leaving the flat. This was since the last of my breakdowns from paid employment in 2008 (one of so many similar breakdowns from paid working, though none as devastating in consequence as this last one). With each of these breakdowns, the recovery time got longer and longer. It's taken eight years to recover much at all this time around.

This week, so far, I've made none of my appointments or activities. In fact, I've not showered for days. Embarrassing to admit but maybe helpful to own up to it. As I write I'm still in what I wore to bed, as I was all day yesterday and the day before. The weird thing is that I don't feel that bad in my emotions, just crashed out physically and lacking almost all motivation except to use the computer. In other words, my mind and fingertips are alert and active, in fact nervy and overactive as usual, but the rest of me is crashed out. Perhaps I have entered what some people call a bipolar 'mixed state'. Whatever the terminology, this is where I am and I've been here so many times before.

The way I see it, there are a number of possible reasons for the way I am after last week:

  • inner conflict about how helpful my psychologist treatment is for me (saw her on Friday);
  • trying to further reduce my tobacco intake (the struggle seems disproportionately huge and exhausting);
  • needing recovery time from a big week (by my standards);
  • simply another manifestation of bipolar disorder in me.

Regarding the psychologist. She is young compared to me and I have the feeling that she may not grasp the full extent of my situation, partly through lack of life experience. Perhaps she may particularly lack an understanding of the various physical ailments that complicate things with me, some age-related (menopause, musculo-skeletal problems), one of them a chronic illness (crohns disease). She is treating me with some techniques from Dialectical Behavioural Therapy, something I honestly have never liked the sound of when I've read about it. The main 'homework' I have for this four week period is a sheet I am meant to fill out every night covering various things including tobacco use, coffee intake, isolating, unbalance eating, sleep patterns, lack of exercise. The sheet also includes sections monitoring mood every day. The problem I find is that monitoring and (by implication) tackling all these things at once is just overwhelming. I am significantly depressed after filling out the form because it seems to highlight all the ways I am failing rather than the ways I am succeeding. The psychologist has given me this sheet as homework once before and it had the same effect on me then. A full month long slump into depression is what followed. This sheet makes me feel very pressured to recover quickly from all of these things at once, a message that contradicts the advice of my psychiatrist (who I trust much more). His advice is to take it slowly and steadily and not feel rushed. As of yesterday, I stopped using the DBT form altogether. I am even considering giving up on the therapy with this psychologist after my next (sixth) session instead of seeing it through to the ten sessions my GP is willing to refer me for.

With the difficulty of further tobacco reduction, I am succeeding in reducing this a little more but the effort is gargantuan and seems to be sapping all the strength I have for making it out the door to my activities and appointments (or even to get dressed and showered). Writing here is just about the only thing that is distracting me from smoking again or thinking about it obsessively.

I've run out of steam on writing about it all now (a huge sigh of relief from any readers at this point).

I wonder if anyone else can make any sense of this.

27230 replies

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In response to: A long rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Hi @Mazarita Just read your thread. I second all the great supportive responses.

I can never spend regular time filling out forms and rating myself. I only do it when I am trying to track it, for ME, so I understand myself or see how things have changed. Not when I am told by a young woman (girl) to monitor things, pro forma...

I dont really think the daily shower is needed. When going to gymn I only ever showered after and as I went all times of day .. I became very flexible .... I had the idea of only using what we truly genuinely need.

I know a lady who hasnt washed her hair for 5 years ..

It is cold in Melbourne and I went 3 days this week without a shower... and didnt feel guilty ... in fact .. I had to visit someone who had given me the pip and boasts of being an urban softie .. and I was secretly pleased about it ... Nah gottcha .. silly me .. and I wore my gardening shoes .. though I had a nice dress, leggings and jacket on ... in rebellion for feeling coerced about dress and all sorts of other "standards". Showered today though.

The daily shower robs our skin of its natural oils and IMO is just another excess .. when they developed plumbing we all went overboard with the thrill of being clean and the goodness of hygeine etc .. we are a water stressed country. I rewear clothes as I dont want to waste washing water .. we also confuse being clean with smelling of product .. why should we waste money on scents .. I agree .. with Si's idea about musk ... natural // not purchased.

In response to: Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Hi @Appleblossom, thanks for your sensible response. I agree that a shower every two days is generally enough. And that we have as a society become obsessed with cleanliness and wasteful of water with the frequency most of us feel we must do it. I too rewear clothes if they are okay, which they usually are by my standards for at least two wears, depending on fabrics, state of cleanliness of me, physical exertion, season, whether I've been sweating a lot, or not. But at the moment the washing is outstanding and if that goes on for too long, this too makes it less likely I'll make it out the door. Still, I agree that perfectionist me really needs to take more of a back seat. Cheers again.

In response to: Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Go back 100 years or so, and it was probably the weekly bath ...... and depending where you lived and how much water you had to cart and heat in a copper over a wood fire for an hour, it was probably a shared bath at that, starting with the youngest in the household and working up ....

Yep, modern luxuries that have become somebody's idea of a "have to" .....

Like with eating and sleeping patterns, we have an awareness about what is healthy ❣

A nice hit shower is a great way to detox a bit emotionally ........ sometimes it's a good idea to think about why else we might like to do something, for our own reasons.

@Mazarita, I like how you have a consciousness about yourself, that if you let things like showering, washing clothes, etc slide for too long, it affects your motivation to socialise and change your environment fir a little while. We can all use some of that ....

If I can't motivate myself to deal with something in its big size, I deconstruct it a bit and work on a piece of it - ie, too much washing up ? Okay - "deal with self" - wash up three cups, two spoons, and one side-plate. Done !

Next ?

❤️

In response to: Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Good morning, @Faith-and-Hope. Again, wise words. I like how this thread is turning into a discussion about how much 'personal hygiene' we really need. Something that is definitely worth questioning. Thanks for your thoughts. Looking after small bits of what we can do at any given time is good advice if not able to meet the full task.

In response to: Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Morning @Mazarita 😊

Woke very early (west coast) and have been doing a bit of a catch-up, but I have a "deal with self" to roll over and doze for another hour now ....

See you a bit later, no doubt ❤️

In response to: A long rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Hi @Mazarita ! I struggled with finding DBT infantilising and paternalistic as well - as well as having an emphasis on tough love that was unhelpful to me. Even though its origin is in someone with bipolar disorder (Marsha M. Linehan, the guru of DBT), it doesn't seem very helpful unless you're fully committed to the exact method.

The way my ex-therapist described the emphasis on self-care (even the things I felt I'd mastered at the age of 8...) was that if you get all of your self-care duckies in a row, everything becomes easier to deal with.

It seems like your therapist is not understanding how much of a struggle reducing your smoking is for you, that she's miscounting how many balls you've got juggling in the air right now.

Did you try telling her, could you try telling her, that having to quantify and metricize yourself (harder, better, faster, stronger... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjR4_CbPpQ ) makes you sad, focuses you on your 'weaknesses'? (And creates 'weaknesses' where you're doing mostly ok...) Would she see that as 'the bipolar talking'? Can you disagree with her productively? (As in, you both understand where you're coming from a bit better after, and maybe work towards a compromise? I guess that's what I mean by 'productively disagree'.) My experience of "DBT & my jerk of an ex-therapist" is that it's prescriptive, almost like there was no room for me in there - not sure how much of that is DBT's bootcamp nature and how much of that was the jerk.

Sorry to respond with 'me, me, me'. I don't think your concerns are self-indulgent - you've gotta be your own advocate. If that means knowing when to cut your losses and say 'no thanks', that's what you've gotta do. Have you had a word with your GP about your experiences with the homework sheet and the slumps?

In response to: Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Hi @CannonSalt,

Thanks for your perspective, very interesting to read. I think it's true that the psychologist may be not taking into account the difficulty of juggling things at my end. I have not yet had the opportunity to discuss this with her, but will do that in our next (and possiby last) session. From past sessions, I sense that objections I may have to particular aspects of the therapy may be seen as obstacles to be overcome by her rather than possibly valid matters to be negotiated. I have found a 'metric' quality to the way the sessions have gone so far. However, I may be quite mistaken in my impressions, so it will be interesting to discuss these things with her next time and gauge the outcome. I may not make a final decision on whether to continue with her beyond the next session until I am able to hear her responses to what I have to say.

By the way, your post raises another interesting matter for me. @Former-Member also mentioned it. That is, the use of 'me' and 'I' in our language. Somehow this has become taboo in some peoples' minds. I have no problem with 'me' and 'I' statements. In fact I find them much more helpful than supposedly 'objective' language. Using 'me' and 'I' says to me: 'this is just one person's perspective', rather than, 'this is the truth'. Personally I do not believe in objective truth. Most things seem to be relative in this world. But that may just lead us to a whole new philosophical discussion, which is probably not needed here. Be assured though that I find your personal perspectives and experiences very valuable to better undertanding. I also find this the best kind of peer to peer support we are able to offer each other on this forum.

Thanks again!

In response to: Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

@Mazarita - DBT therapists are trained to see signs of dissent as being "therapy-interfering behaviour" to be expunged. After my experience with jerkface, I did a bunch of reading about DBT - there was an older thread here: http://saneforums.org/t5/Our-experience-stories/Dbt/td-p/35817/highlight/true where I provided some links to DBT websites for therapists and DBT in the peer-reviewed literature.

I only managed to escape jerkface because my bestie, my father, and my GP all said I was getting worse, not better, and that I should quit. I would urge you to talk about your experiences with this therapist with your GP so that they can give you a better referral next time.

In response to: A long rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Very important conversation, peeps...

Sometimes a therapy can make us worse rather than better...

And just to confuse things, sometimes that process is proper and appropriate... getting worse before you get better...

A classic example is if we are kicking a drug habit - we get worse before we get better (withdrawals, etc.)...

@CannonSalt - thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts... it has given me some very interesting things to explore in my own life journey...

@Mazarita - I use I and Me language lots, precisely for the reason you said... to me, the only thing I really feel qualified to talk about with any authority is my self, so I use self-centric and experiential language...

I avoid telling people what is wrong with them or what they must do. That would be rude, ignorant and dangerous of me. All I can do is to relate to others through my own experiences, and present those experiences in the hope that others can get something of worth out of it with relevance to their lives...

That's the sweet spot... 🙂

That fires the reward centres in my brain and makes me think "I dun a good thing, I dun a good thing."... hahaha...

Huge hugs to you all... 🙂

In response to: Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Re: A long and self indulgent rave

Hi @Mazarita,

I have been thinking about this thread for a few days for both yours and everyones comments. I wont name everyone because I'll forget someone. Anyway my reactions are as follows - this made me feel human. All of your beautiful, honest and vulnerable responses bought some humanity back. I tend to see everything in black and white, so no shower = bad. It has helped to possibly temper beating myself up over this.

Secondly I think it was interesting and thought provoking to see people's resonses to therapy and therapists. On this topic I want to make a correction (this is for my own sanity and integrety). I wrote that my psychologist didnt help but I skipped the word always. She helped me greatly on many things but didnt always help. I have had a terrible run with psychiatrists but most of my experiences have been through hospital admissions and community mental health, Ive not had a psychiatrist whom I've seen regularly before.

Lastly thank you for your kind resonses about the use of I and me. i guess after thinking about it the most useful things I've found on this forum have been people descibing their personal experiences. There was no better example than on this thread regarding showers. I guess it still feels weird talking about myself here as well.

@PeppiPatty. Thank you so much for your especially warm welcome and positivity I think I was overwhelmed by it (in a good way). I thought your Mandela quote was very apt for this thread.

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