Looking for advice

Hi @P12,

I have often heard Aspergers described as a high functioning form of Autism. There are many highly successful people with Aspergers, including Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft. I am friends online with an artist with Aspergers who is very highly regarded internationally. There are many people in the wider community with this diagnosis who are living well with it.

So sorry you cry in the stairwell at work. Many years ago I had a similar experience when I would come home from work each day and burst into sobs and crying into my pillow. I believe no-one should have to suffer that much stress and pain in the workplace.

I too feel sad that the psychologist you saw sent you away feeling that there was no hope of effective treatment or change for you.

I am hoping your question about psychosocial and peer support can be answered better by @TideisTurning or @Former-Member , who are peer support workers at this SANE website.

I have searched Google about Aspergers/Autism. The 'Autism Awareness' website has some good information and links to similar organisations that could possibly help you further.

1. https://www.autismawareness.com.au/could-it-be-autism/autism-signs/adulthood/ (info and links)

2. https://www.autismawareness.com.au/diagnosis/who-can-diagnose/ (scroll down to the heading for "State autism organisations")

Thanks for your suggestions @Mazarita though I don't think I am the same condition as Bill Gates and he doesn't really inspire me. I've also asked some of the organisations you suggested but was told they are more suitable for people with Autism rather than what I apparently have.

Hi @P12, yeah Bill Gates was a bad example. I'm seeing now that you have thought deeply about a lot of things and explored a lot of avenues.

I've had a little Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. My five years psychologist who has now moved away said she thought it was superficial, and I tend to agree. I do not feel that therapy has significantly helped me. I read that it draws ideas from the historic philosophy of Stoicism. I did not experience it as suggesting withdrawal from society or other people though.

I'm in the process of exploring further mindfulness, and starting a six week course with my new psychologist, also a hypnotherapist. I'm finding significant improvements in some areas in the small number of sessions with him so far, especially in feeling calmer and more relaxed. This is very good for me as I have so often felt that I have an overwired nervous system, anxiety, worry, fast paced mind.

One of the things I am learning with mindfulness is about healing that may be found in becoming more aware of the body beyond words. I have believed for some time that the body has its own intelligence. It is helping me to relax to move my attention more towards my physicality, walking more is helping me a lot. Conscious slowing of breathing for relaxation each day helps me at this time, just randomly as I need it to calm down emotional upset to a less distressing level.

I totally agree with your question, where is the place where people are allowed to do what they are good at and for which they have natural talent, interest. In the case of people like me who some may describe as 'neurodivergent', workplace life has been terrible, and I have had devastating breakdowns a number of times. I now receive a disability pension, a huge blessing in my life.

I wonder what sort of work you do. Really hope you find a better situation with that in future.

I also have difficulty understanding the basis of acceptance and commitment theory. It says that one should accept emotions, thoughts, and behaviours as meaningless events, disconnected from oneself. It says one can pursue their values throughout their life to obtain purpose. First, as these two ideas seem opposites, how can they be sustaining when to act on one diminishes the other. Second, if they are true and you can pursue your values but their occurence is meaningless, what is the purpose in pursuing them and what is the purpose in being alive?

Two weeks ago I spoke with a psychologist but was disappointed to be told I couldn't continue to speak with them because I was already speaking with a different psychologist. Has anyone else had a similar experience and is willing or able to share your experience? I speak with my normal psychologist about once every three months as that is the frequency with which I am comfortable considering the cost and the rate I can intellectually process our meetings. However, I feel I am in need of more regular and diverse advice.

Last month I found a free mental health service, Head to Health, which accepted me for treatment although I already have a Mental Health Care Plan with another practitioner. I am using the treatment to try to make a friend as I have been unsuccessful in this goal for more than 14 years and believe it is a significant contribution to my distress. Apparently I have a mental disorder which is the cause of my inability to make a friend. So far all I have achieved is using cognitive behaviour theory to change my perception about the need and strategy for making a friend, and using acceptance and commitment theory to identify my values and affirm them in the world around me. However, the difficulty I've found is that I am only able to formulate an imaginary friend with whom I can associate, I am unable to actually make a real friend with whom I can practise empathy, and this is accelerates my mental disorder. While the treatment will not tackle my mental disorder, I hope it might stimulate it toward a solution.

Hey there @P12,

I think a previous member commented on your strength at staying the path with working through these difficulties, and I wanted to start out by saying right on for committing to that for yourself. You very clearly articulate your desire for friendship and connection, which is common to so many of us.

I'm wondering what you've tried that has worked, or not worked, in terms of making new friends? Meet ups in person have been a little thwarted in this respect due to covid, but there are so many different online groups out there (in fact, I just joined one myself this morning!). Do you have any interests or hobbies that you could explore with others? This is just one example, but I've been curious about NFTs in the art and design world so I just joined a Discord group to learn more and chat with others who share this interest. I'm also attending an online Zoom meetup tomorrow morning with a bunch of people who share a commonality with me. The possibilities for connection are limited by our own interests, and whilst I know it's not the same as meeting up in person, connection within some online communities can be quite rewarding.

Stick with it, @P12. I for one am fascinated to hear more from you, and I know others will be too 😊

Hello @Former-Member,

My interests are: fracture mechanics, numerical analysis, Australia's natural environment, conservation, bushwalking, cricket, running, cycling, research, studying, writing, speaking, mental health, personal development, and religion.

Overall, the best strategy I've found is to participate in activities in my interest areas, as there I am most likely to find others suitable and willing to communicate with me, and to meet as many people as possible hoping that eventually someone suitable and willing will form a friendship with me. However, I found that, despite meeting hundreds or thousands of people, I am still looking. I found lots of people who were willing to participate in the interest activity with me but unwilling to form a friendship outside the activity.

• I've attended more than 150 Meetup events in the past six years, including about 75 events I've organised myself, and I am the owner of one group. The closest I've come to making a friend was one person, but they apparently lessened interest in me because of their commitment to existing family and friendship groups and because our interests were slightly misaligned. Most members are older than me and a high proportion are from a different culture, which also reduces the likelihood of shared values and perspectives. Sometimes I organise events for which other members register, but then no-one shows, leaving me to sadly complete the activity alone. Usually I do so while trying not to cry because my efforts to organise interesting events were apparently wasted and I don't understand why people deceive me. My events are free.

• I've been a member of four recreational clubs (soccer, cricket, bushwalking, and Toastmasters), but can't say I made a lasting friend. I've known people for 2.5, 5, 10, 15 & 20 years through these clubs, but again found people are willing to participate in the interest activity with me, but when I try to develop a friendship outside the activity they are not interested.

• My work colleagues seem to have different interests and beliefs to me. When I have invited them to extracurricular events I enjoy and have organised myself, I have received only three attendees to more than fifteen separate events. My work is apparently so competitive that that those I sit next to in my office are actively in opposition to me. Employers closely control employees seeking others in their interest area as it normally conflicts the employers strategy. I am traumatised by past experiences of criticism, bullying, and exclusion.

• I have been a member of three professional associations. I attend regular seminars and workshops, but the people I meet have attitudes like my work colleagues. Sometimes I've attended networking events but left distraught when I felt deceived by the events or treatment by other people. I asked two of these organisations whether I could advertise my own events that I would find interesting in the hope they would help me attract similar people. But the organisations didn't allow it. I don't understand the purpose of the associations if they won't allow paid members to seek and connect with other paid members. I organised a discussion group last year with the third association, then attended three out of five events by myself because the registrants didn't attend.

• I found an online forum about one of my technical interest areas but the people are almost all from other countries and appear to have different motivations to me. I asked two leading subject matter experts in my city for their advice, and one of them allowed me to volunteer to supervise a student, but they are both from different cultures and age groups to me and I feel were not really suitable a friends, more collaborators.

• I have attended church periodically my whole life. Almost all other attendees are much older. I have attended two courses at my church in which the participants were younger but I seemed to have a different theological understanding to them and therefore didn't make a connection.

• I have used online dating. In three years all I have achieved is three phone calls. The people I send messages to often don't respond or respond only once of twice, then stop abruptly. I really don't know why or why I am not interesting enough to others to at least engage in one phone call. Those who spoke to me then said they were not interested in speaking again.

• I tried to receive professional help. One counsellor suggested I try laughing therapy and proceeded to demonstrate, but I didn't find it funny and felt I was being laughed at, that was after telling me that she was unable to help and I should consult a different practitioner. A psychologist told me he believes I have a recognised mental condition and recommended I attend events for people with the condition, but when I attended I found the others were different to me. I feel let down after visiting practitioners because I feel the costs are disproportionately high in comparison to purchasing a home, food, and basic living expenses, and I believe practitioners are conflicted in forming friendships with patients due to codes of conduct. I have participated in this online forum and other mental health online forums. However, the forums are anonymous and I've found it hard to make friends with faceless people.

• I once saw someone very interesting on a train and found their contact details. However, I received no response to my messages.

• The act of forming a friendship is apparently so trivial to most people that organisations such as Relationships Australia mostly have resources for people in relationships, not those trying to form a friendship.

The second strategy I've found is to analyse my interactions with others in the hope that I may identify deficiencies in my communication, which I can then change. I've studied assertive communication and empathy but either I am apparently not using it correctly, am unable to make sense of the feedback I receive, or the other person simply stops communicating with me for reasons I know not. Sometimes I practice empathy with imaginary friends or people with whom I would like to form a friendship in the hope this will give me some satisfaction or telepathically influence the other into forming a friendship with me but it is not the same as actually having a friend.

The third strategy I've found is to use psychological treatment methods such as cognitive behaviour theory and acceptance and commitment theory. The trouble I've found with these is that they seem to focus on cognitive rather than practical techniques. I am able to suppress my desires and distress by intellectual activity but this just increases my feelings in an accelerating cycle.

There is more discussion about the topic in my following forum thread. Independence-and-Friendship

ahh ... fracture mechanics sounds interesting and unusual. I will look it up later. Did a bit of earth science in another life.

@P12

I am probably a lot older than you, but am struck by many similarities in personality we share. It may have something to do with some aspects of our parental experience. Defences, resilience and strengths we developed. Bottom line eben most professionals have no idea how to handle close relationships with people in serious mental distress.

The level of personal analysis about my interactions I have tried, has been serious, but in the end I had to learn to laugh.

WIll look at your new thread.

Apple