Self-love and Self-Hatred

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@Maggie wrote:

The L word isn’t really in my understanding not experience

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This makes me so sad, @Maggie 💔

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@Maggie wrote:

I know you don’t say much about yourself, you don’t have to, I think we feel it somehow. 💚💚

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Yes 💜

@Maggie @Owlunar @TheVorticon Good Morning all! Thanks for that understanding Maggie. It was just that having said good things about my ex-psychiatrist, I was unable to switch off having not yet come to an understanding of why he did what he did - and had to re-open to clarify that it is all still a work in progress. Have a good day everyone. A beautiful day here in Melbourne!

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@Maggie wrote:

I tried many ways to forgive, but felt a failure because I couldn't. My counsellor said to me one day that some things are unforgivable, and for me, a weight had been lifted. I was free to forgive or not to forgive. Strange, but I hadn't thought I had a choice.

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@Maggie this in your post from last year really resonated with me. My psychologist said the same thing to me, and it was a relief.

@Owlunar I could also relate to what you said about bringing home 9/10 marks or 10/10 marks and they weren't good enough. If I brought home straight As in primary school, there was no praise, just criticism as to why they weren't all A-pluses. Actually there was no praise in my childhood at all - it was a deliberate policy of my father, that he stands by to this day. I'm sorry that you experienced similar things.

Good afternoon

@NatureLover @Historylover @Maggie @TheVorticon

And a thanks to @Jupiter for merging the two threads

I am amazed at the degree of information written in the short time since I went off-line yesterday - and it is so good to read people's comments. I will try and answer some of them as I have time - it is very encouraging and I thank all of you

It is very encouraging

Dec

Hi @NatureLover and @Maggie

Maggie - I do remember your comment last year about not knowing you had a choice to forgive or not - and for everyone - we do have a choice about that - one of the things that sets us aside from other forms of life is that we have free-will - we are blessed or cursed by that but we can make choices

When it comes to forgiveness it means we have to really understand what the word means - it doesn't mean forgetting. I have a toxic sister - I decided to forgive her which really is a works-in-progress. I have done this for my own sake - not hers - I know she will continue with her strange behaviour regardless so my thoughts on the subject of forgiveness is

We can - if we choose - to forgive a person for their behaviour - we may never forget and we also make sure that they are not given the chance to repeat themselves in our presence.

The last two occasions I saw my sister were at a funeral and at a birthday party and neither event was the time or place to tell my sister I'd had enough - but the chance will come

Anyway

NatureLover - it is hard work when we can never be good enough for our parents - I would have nightmares as a child - and I must have run away from them once because in the dream it was always in the same place - and I would be puzzled as to why they were chasing me because obviously they didn't think I was good enough for them. At the same time I was breaking my heart to be the best I could -

I am the first child in my family - my father was too - and he was easier going - my mother though - I am still wondering what she wanted of me but I will never know now and I guess it no longer matters

But about "Pious Abuse" - I know - it must be "Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child" - really hard methods. I know we have to teach our children how to be safe in this life - and these lessons can be hard to teach and harder to watch the progess -

It's delicate work - child rearing - and we all make mistakes doing it - I have to remember my parents were very young when I was born

Dec

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@Historylover wrote:

@NatureLover @Maggie @Owlunar I have just been trying to get an early night and my mind just won't let this rest.

I have heard of women who defend the men who abuse them but never did I think I could ever become one of them. I defend my ex-psychiatrist all the time because I know what he did for me - but here I sit with my life in ruins, holding on to the hope that my family will sort itself out - and wondering if it is me who should be wondering if I believe the words I'm speaking. They will never sort themselves out. None of them. I just have to find some way to make something of the rest of my life and I don't know how I'm going to do that. I just know that I am going to do my best. Sorry to burden you with this but in case you wonder if I am totally gullible - perhaps I'm just having trouble letting go of believing in the people who played such a major part in my life. See you all tomorrow.

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Hi @Historylover

I missed this post on Saturday - I ran out of forum-time as happens and I have copied it so you can know which post I am responding to

I know there are women who defend the men who assault them and the thing is I really don't know about their lives and why they choose what they choose - I have heard that after years of abuse and gaslighting people can lose track of their own journey and I imagine this would make very hard to focus on one's on path - these women get lost I think -

I did read some of what you wrote about your psychiatrist - it seems as if he was doing an excellent job but things went a bit wonky and now you just don't know about it - or what to think about it. I understand that and it's okay to post what's on your mind here - I know some people post Trigger Warnings to warn other people not to read the post if it might affect them - I am okay with what you have written here though

I hear you - you are sitting there with your life in ruins and wondering if your family will ever sort themselves out. Mine didn't. My father had to wait until he was in hospital to speak with me - where they were in Aged Care my parents had a small apartment and my mother was always there with her waspish tongue and I would sometimes just walk out - it was good to see Dad alone the day we had the last conversation - something everyone should have -

Dad had made his choices too - allowing and enabling my mother with her games - and they are gone and my siblings live out of Melbourne now and I don't have to see them - which is a total relief - still I hear you - what can you do to sort them out? Alas - not much - and it's really hard to know that - to say that - to write that - etc - there are some Happy Families - it would be so wonderful to be able to have a stable home to return to

Doing your best is the best you can do. Have you got any ideas about what to do with the rest of your life? I am always interested in History and I have spent a great deal of time looking into the British Royal Family - Queen Victoria's family now - they were dysfunctional and being a Princess in the C19th must have been gloomy with no different future - bleak thoughts

So I have cheered Harry and Meghan on - glad they made the break and hope they will be happy - they have a chance to be their own selves in America

But for you - I started writing that because my interest in History has been a huge part of my life over the last few years - the internet is a wonderful source of information - if you are interested in history then I suggest you find a focus and go in deep into it. I read a lot of War History in the past and moved to British History -

Now I am working on Women's Rights and although I stalled because I injured one of my shoulders a few months ago and the pain was bad and I couldn't do much more than my laundry and cooking - I am recovering after a procedure and getting my routine back in order and I hope to write something about it. I was going to write something simple but when I started research I found things to vary in Australia, Britain and the US so it was a bigger project

So - I don't know what your work situation is - or your social situation - how you are affected by the lock-down - etc - but I have found private study fun after an unsually long time doing formal study

Btw - I don't think you are gullible - you might be but I don't know you well enough and I wouldn't judge you anyway -

The aim of this post and these threads is for people to join in the conversation and open their own mind and lives to things being better. I have found life as a sole agent challenging and worthwhile

All the best HistoryLover and I am certainly glad to have come across your post this morning

Dec

Thankyou for your post @Owlunar.

Sometimes I become a bit overwhelmed by the situation I find myself in - so unexpectedly. It is very distressing but I am trying to draw on the training my ex-psychiatrist gave me to get myself out of these difficulties.

During the many years of rehabilitating my broken physical health I studied quite extensively. Please note that everything good in my life is the result of a psychiatrist who took me under his wing and guided me onto a different path to the lost one I had been on. And everything newly bad? Him too. But as I said, I am still working to unravel that event and just giving it the time necessary to fully understand it.

As to my studies, my genealogy was an absolute passion. He helped me with that too! I can honestly say that it helped me find out who I am, discover what had happened in my lineages which had brought my family and myself to the state it is in, and gave me the impetus to try to correct the misdirection of that which I hold most dear - my family.

That done, I had a burning desire to travel for the first time in my life. Again, guess who helped me. He showed me that being on a pension need not be a hindrance and that it is not how much money we have, but how we use it. It took me 21 months to save for my first trip to England and Scotland. No-one helped me with money and I travelled on my own. During the 21 months, I studied travel books - mostly from the library - and when I arrived in London I felt like a native! My itinerary was meticulous and achieved the most out of everyday. I lived on hamburgers and stayed in B&Bs with big breakfasts. Some were dingy, others just like home. The sights were what I went for and they were the same for me as for everyone on a higher budget. It was the most exhiliarating experience of my life.

When I got home I determined to travel further - my appetite now thoroughly whetted. About 2 years later I had saved for travel to Germany, France and Spain. Again, budget all the way, without financial help from anyone and on my own. And again - exhiliarating. Quite an achievement in every way for someone who once was so undeveloped in so many ways. So, as you can see, I have much to be grateful to him for. MUCH!

I came home with seed money sufficient to travel to China the following year for about 2 weeks or so also. My travel to Italy, though, was not from my pension.

He helped me achieve this!

I will post this in case it gets lost in transit and continue on another post.

@Owlunar As for my family - what a mess! My own, my birth family and my extended family - all broken. When I was doing my genealogy, I wrote to families in relevant districts in England, Germany and Scotland to see if they were aware if our families had historical links. Many did - and it was thrilling to find others who had also researched their genealogy and could show me my connection.

One researcher linked back to the 1830s and had gone further to 1700s which I was given - and agreed was correct. It is very necessary to check all details given to us. But the prevailing sentiment was one of broken families. It seemed to have happened at every generation - to this day.

Of course, that was also impetus for my ex-psychiatrist and I to try to do something about this situation and bring about some sort of family unity. I mentioned in an earlier post that I had tried to build a family history project at my parents' Brisbane home - where everyone lives - and that no-one would co-operate. I should add that some time later there was a family reunion there and I wasn't invited. Such is the nature of relationships in my tribe. I stopped trying with any of them. I consider that a loss for us all.

English history was also a passion of mine. So much so that I created genealogical charts for them through the centuries - so many inter-marriages - but, with me, if it isn't used it's forgotten. And yes - even the Royals had dysfunctional families!

What will I do with my life now? Perhaps I am a fool - but try as I might, I just can't concede defeat with my family. There are short stints when I think it will never happen - then I remember that the reason for this break - although vastly prolonged - was to give everyone 'clear air' to think, to learn that we are all responsible for our own actions and that we can't continue to blame others for everything.

I am not the same person as I was 35 years ago and any reformation of my family would have to start from ground zero. We would have to re-learn who the other is - just as I have been doing here on this forum - taking the time to get to know people. This has been quite a learning curve for me. As I stated on a prior post - we just role-played our way through life and no-one truly knew who the other was. That would have to change. So, I am still hopeful despite occasional bouts of doubt. I have done everything I can to facilitate it - but they have the ball in their court.

Again I'll post this before continuing.

I am very sorry @Owlunar that your family is also dysfunctional. Relationships are so difficult and take so much work for some of us to function in. Others seem to have it happen so effortlessly. But to be honest - perhaps it just seems that way.

I came to understand so much of my parents after they had passed and the friction abated - although it took quite a few years before my understanding grew. I hold them both dear now and always will. Our relationship wasn't as terrible as some had it, but it was fraught with confusion and misdirection - but they too were the product of their upbringing and experiences. Sometimes we forget that, I think.

Unlike you, Dec, I can't stand Meghan! And I regard Harry with lower regard that I would have done years ago. Meghan has split everyone down the middle I think! I find her shallow and attention-seeking - just like a celebrity - always playing to the camera. And I consider her fawning over Harry to be sickly - not representative of a loving relationship as many consider, but one of simply playing the role of such.

For me - I hold William and Catherine in high regard. I like their CLASS! They are REAL! And I think Prince Phillip is quite a character. Charles is someone I would like to meet - and I feel similarly towards Camilla even though it was not a good beginning for them. But perhaps they were robbed of their proper beginning due to rules imposed on them by others. I just hope adultery becomes a thing of the past in their ranks. Nothing good can be said of such conduct. As for the Queen - we couldn't have asked for better in my opinion.

Sorry to hear of your injury Dec. I've had a few over the years too but they have all healed, thankfully. I really look after myself these days especially regards diet and exercise. I am pleased you have found so much to interest you from the internet. What would we do without it? I am currently wondering what I will try next or if I'll rekindle an old interest.

As for my work situation - there isn't one. I haven't worked since my health broke down 35 years ago so severely that I had to lock myself away so that I was disturbed as little as possible and could heal my broken body. I haven't missed it in the slightest. It has given me the opportunity to study and take life as I have been able. Yes, private study is so rewarding.

I have been trying to find a youtube channel lecturer/teacher in Astronomy who inspires me as much as the lecturer I found there in Medicine - Dr. Najeeb. He is incredible! How lucky students are who have had him to teach them. It's all the luck of the draw really. I tried other medical lecturers but he is thoroughly inspiring!

Lockdown is really becoming a drain, isn't it? I just hope that everyone continues observing restrictions so that we can get on top of this situation. Another outbreak would be dreadful. I feel naked when I go out without a mask these days and soon scurry back for my mask. It has become impossible to forget for long. I am waiting for the shops to open so that I can get a pair of binoculars to do some star-gazing!

Yes, life as a sole agent is certainly challenging and worthwhile. I genuinely wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Nice to hear from you, Dec.

I just saw the topic of this thread - need to read it all

However, at first glance My immediate thoughts are I have personally never had the priveledge of experiencing self love. During my childhood, my teens, early adulthood and now. Till this day, I HATE myself, Double HATE my body and the way that makes me think/feel. Physical illness contributes to this, but not anywhere near as bad as others. I hate myself and the thought of self love makes me pull away in disbelief