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Dog nuisance and the elderly

Dog nuisance and the elderly

When I studied psychology back in the Stone Age of the 1980s we were taught that, in many cases, suicide is the option that is taken when there are no other options; we were taught to try to identify the options in counselling.

On the 14th of January 2013 I made a formal complaint to the local council about barking dogs at my neighbour's property, which operates as an occasional boarding kennel. Her own dog yaps consistently and the boarding dogs which are not cared for, whine, howl, and bark for long periods. I have spent the past three years contacting anyone who may be able to help push the council into acting on my complaint. I have written emails and surface letters to any member of local or state government, including the police, who may have some power to act. After three years nothing has been achieved and the situation is probably worse now.

This morning I was woken just after 4.30am by howling from one of the Australia Day boarders. This howling and whining went on for about 40 minutes and was followed by random barking and whining for a number of hours. I have spent the past nine hours making telephone calls and writing emails without any sign of acceptance of my complaint; I have worked intensely without identifying any options.

I don't find forums very productive because they seem to only apply to younger people but I desperately need to talk.

During the past two years or so I have seen a variety of social workers, psychologists, and psychiatrists. The common factor is that nothing can be done while the nuisance continues. In August 2014 a psychologist told me that I was “burned out,” this seemed a reasonable description of Complex Stress Disorder. Late last year I saw two psychiatrists a few weeks apart. The first one talked with me for the fifty minute hour and concluded that I am not depressed but need help to cope with the situation. A week or so later I was given an appointment with a different psychiatrist at the same centre. This one concluded after a few minutes that all my problems could be solved with anti depressants; she then got up and walked out of the room. I avoid anti depressants because of the usual weight gain which would be a major problem with diabetes. I currently control diabetes with careful diet. I also find mindfulness techniques to be very effective in helping mood and sleep.

The main thing that troubles me about all this is that some 2500 Australians die each year from suicide. The Victorian state government has a minister for family violence, but seems to have no interest in suicide at all. My experiences tend to suggest that “The System” encourages suicide by systematic isolation of those with mental difficulties. I use the word “difficulties” rather than “illness” because there was once a suggestion that mental problems can be a normal response to abnormal circumstances. I believe strongly that my mental difficulties are simply a response to circumstances; I function quite well in many other environments. In my own home I spend the days in my quiet room, away from the dogs. I can't work in my yard and pay to have the lawns mowed; this is a job that I could do myself if my yard was not a toxic environment because of th nuisance. I try to get away every second day. This is how I've lived for more than two years.

I often feel that I am living in a story by Franz Kafka.

20 replies

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In response to: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Maybe doing a masters part time is a better option than the U3A ... Sometimes people just click ... sometimes the well-adjusted are comfortable uttering comments that marginalise others ... it takes all types.

Fitting in has often been an issue for me.

I have put much effort into it all my life. Patiently. I used to slump and crouch to fit in talking to other girls ... I have tall genes.. probably the start of my neck problems.

I kicked a footie, taught my son to dropkick, cos his dad wouldnt kick a ball with him, and been to one more footie match than you @Louis-Rigolly. lol I have done my bit to be Australian, including being born here and having an Aussie father.

Someone in authority at my son's private school said he wasnt putting enough effort towards fitting in ... when he refused to attend school in Year 7. ...must have been your U3A bloke's sister. I was seeing my son's huge distress and little welcome.

My son is very big .. he was almost twice the size of the little girls in his prep grade .... and was subject to a lot of their bossing. Jeez. Some of those little girls just let it rip but because they are little.... its "cute" and people presumed that my son was a bit slow for his age ... hmmm.

I have angsted so bloody much about our fitting in ... and watched others be quite relaxed about it ... I have heard the "my way or the highway" line ... too much.

I think you are right .. modern society has a lot of social problems.

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Hi Appleblossom

Humans are social animals and we need other humans with whom to interact. If we don't fit in then we don't interact and this causes all sorts of problems, as you and I know. I described one of my recent experiences in the previous post and the worst part of experiences like that one are that they did not happen before to me. Until I moved here I had always fitted in to some level, sometimes better than others. As you describe, there is always a sense of judgement around those who do not fit in and this can make one question oneself. It can be made worse if we try to change too much to fit in; a little adjustment perhaps, but not major change. I met a man who is a distant cousin and lives a few streets away. We had a cup of tea together and it was plain that he had tried too hard. He talked about conspiracy theories which involved a secret government department which would need to be twice the size of the tax office and pretty much impossible to keep secret. His mind-set seemed to follow other people who I have talked to up here.

I have a friend who lives in a different area completely and she has similar difficulties to you and I in that she has neighbour problems which her council won't address even though there are obviously laws being broken. I don't know whether it is simply a change in society or we are all being unlucky.

I start a U3A course later this week but it is back in my old area, a 45 minute drive each way away from here. The problem with the Christmas holiday period is that these things close down. U3A could help with some of the feelings of isolation. Also have a visit from a Psychiatric Triage Team next week and an appointment with the community legal service the following week. It's all go; just hope that some of it helps.

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

@Louis-Rigolly

U3A is designed to reduce the isolation and keep older people learning and socially active. There is a lot of variation between suburban groups, just depends on who is around and doing stuff. Good Luck with it.

I agree we are social animals. One of the possibilities of pluralist society is that everyone can find a reasonable match in interest groups.

I have questioned myself a lot, more than the average, but now I have seen a lot more of life and other families and cultures, I am standing my ground more.

Its good that you have some things set up. I have called the CAT team on myself 3 times, over the years, and found them helpful.

There is a problem when people get too blinkered and paranoid in their thinking and fall into the conspiracy theory thing ... I have listened to a lot of raves like that over the years. Mostly, I was patient and bit detached from it as it seemed obviously too obssessive to take seriously. Maybe I was lucky in working for govt when I was young in life and had realistic understandings of the limits of govt.

cheers Apple

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Hi Appleblossom

I went to a U3A play reading group today. Well worth the drive; the kind of people that can't be found near where i live. Very nice couple of hours with nice people having a bit of fun. Today's play was a comedy with a political theme.

It's interesting how people can be so much influenced by the environment. The people in Melbourne's outer suburbs can be very easy to be with. Today was so easy and so much fun. You mention people being blinkered; that pretty much describes the people here in Boganville. Conversation tends to be around fundamentalist Christianity or conspiracy theories, never about ideas. A fundamentalist group, better not name them, set up here in the early 1900s and their influence has developed from there. As you say, one can go along with their line of thinking but it can be difficult when we are a bit fragile.

I wonder whether the key to mental survival is tenacity. I maintain my fight with the council re the dogs and seek support from anyone who will listen. If I did not do this I don't think I would survive; you know what I mean.

My reason for choosing the name Louis Rigolly is that he is something of a model of tenacity. Rigolly was the first man to travel at 100mph. I think it was 1897 he got to 100kph and hoped for 100mph before the turn of the century. Each summer he would come back to Ostend in Belgium with a car made by Gobron-Brillie and gradually raise the speed little by little. In July 1904 he made 103mph.

I've always admired Rigolly's tenacity and his story gives me strength. Perhaps, if I keep at it I will succed, but I must have the tenacity that Rigolly displayed.

I recognise what you say about understanding the limits of government. I was very naive three years ago when I made my first complaint and believed the dog problem would be solved by simply making a complaint to the council as laid out in the applicable law. I have learnt a lot since then about the realities of working with government.

All the best, Louis Rigolly (If only)

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Thank you @Louis-Rigolly for telling me about your choice of name and profile pic.

It is great to get a fuller picture. I like the tinkerer type of person and have known a few ... am not a mechanic myself but had help to take apart my 250 cc motor bike engine to replace head gasket and put it back together successfully. Those years from 18-20 riding motorbikes gave me a great respect for that side of life.

Yes tenacity is important. In a psychodrama a director told me "not to let go of my own agenda" ... at the time I was not as clear about what my agenda actually was .. that was about 25 years ago ... I think I am getting the idea now.

I have a friend who has let go of his fight to be himself. it is sad as he is losing faculties and giving in to Alzheimers, stopped going to U3A cos he lost his licence. I dont know how much personal control we have in life .. but he is a good person who was an industrial chemist at first and then became a christian minister ... a gentle caring soul.. and I miss him .. was one of the few non Bogans but now he has left my local area ... and i couldnt visit him as his wife was a bit controlling of him and of any conversation he had, though I was friendly with her and taught her piano for 4 years ... unfortunately, its the way it goes.

Glad you do have a group that you can relax with, and can relate to and be civilised. I havent found that on the level of ideas yet.

My writing group is a bit conservative and tight laced, but recently we have an almost retired English professor from Cambridge join and the level of acceptable ideas and discussion is rising. I feel more at ease with people in the Shakespeare Society for their general level of education ... and many of them are way way more educated than I ... we will see how that pans out ...

Its a pity we have to travel to find like minds .. but I guess I found the reiief palpable when I do connect ... so that I have resigned myself to travelling for it ... it is part of why I probably jumped at the idea of moving house when my son started study this year .. 5 days pw in CBD. Now I have backed off a bit ... going more slowly .. may move .. if contacts in the local area dont pick up. I am sick of being put down for being educated .. I am inclusive and dont put others down for not knowing stuff. But Bogans are not into understanding their own projection on others .... hmmmm.

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

I hope the community legal centre works out for you @Louis-Rigolly. Some are better than others and they do have significant funding constraints now but they're all staffed by lawyers who could earn twice the money in private practice, and have chosen to forego that in order to help people who can't afford commercial lawyers. So I am biased but I think they're pretty special 🙂 And yep, if they can't help they should send you to someone who can... not just leave you hanging.

In response to: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly


@Louis-Rigolly wrote:

the one thing worse than being alone is to be with people who make you feel alone.


@Louis-Rigolly

So, so true. Oh how I would love to see this fact drummed in to the populace as a matter of community awareness. I dare say that the government/society's interest in attacking mental illness, depression and suicide needs to acknowledge and factor in this fact if it is to make any significant headway. Though once again, this idea would seem to be "unAustralian" in nature, so I think the odds of it being seriously acknowledged in our lifetime is slim.

Incase you haven't gathered, @Louis-Rigolly, I know the truth of those words all too well. I am most definitely not a member of whatever community/society the people I know personally make up. I have no connection or understanding of any of them.

As you seem to indicate, "doing as the romans do" just doesn't work. I tried to pretend to be like everyone else just as a matter of manners for many years. But the problem is if your pretending 24/7 to be someone your not, at what point do you advertize who you really are, so that the foreigners (for lack of a better term) that you are accomodating will understand how to accomodate you in turn? How will they know who your true community is and therefore be able to direct you to that community if it is frowned upon for you to carry yourself as a member of that community? Not only that but I would assume that most people hope (in the broadest sense) to accomplish something good with their life; and this concept of what constitutes "something good"would be defined by the values and ideals that make up their own personal character. Thus if they are committed to dancing to the tune of the foreign culture that surrounds them, they may well not be accomplishing something good nor admirable with their life. If fact, if there is a significant enough deviation between their own agenda/dogma and their surrounding society's, they may well be working against doing something good by "doing as the romans do" - they may be doing something bad.

I still find myself play-acting a part that has some repugnant characteristics, simply because it's the way the people in my life want those before them to behave. They have customs that I can't understand the appeal of that I must nonetheless adhere to to be considdered a respectful neighbor/aquaintance/relative.

Of course the other major flaw in the "as the romans do" approach is that the people around you all too often won't tell you just what they want you to do or say. I dare say that this was the source of the souring of the vast majority of my relationships with others. Faking it only goes so far. And I am, if I do say so myself, an excellant faker. If you aren't one of them, you simply won't "get it". And eventually your failure to do what they expect you to do will out you as a foreigner to them and insure that your forevermore percieved as one.

Naieve optimism, perhaps even theoretical logic would suggest that there is merit in "doing as the romans do", that there is a titt-for-tat dynamic; that if you are a respectful and helpful pilgrim, the tribes you wander in to via birth or circumstance will show you respect and kindness and aid you in finding your own family. But that train of thought doesn't factor in the flaw of corruption, which is sadly an all too real element in our world. The other party in these exchanges abuse this otherwise fair bargaining system because they have the power to do so. They take advantage of us wayward pilgrims without mercy.

In simpler terms, the reigning culture of "normal" people around us bully and shame us into playing the characters they designate (another so-called "normal" person), without any intention of repaying this sacrifice because they know we are desperate to be helped on our way to meet our kindred spirits and are therefore likely to try to appease them forever, clinging to the hope that they may one day show us some kindness in return. We essentially give them a free ride because we need their help, even though we know we're almost certain to never get it. Then to add insult to injury, they have the nerve to persecute us when we don't play-act this incomprehensible role of theirs with absolute perfection!

The better advice, is "never go to rome in the first place!" Though sadly, not everyone has the fortune to be able to adhere to this piece of advice. Some of us pilgrims find ourselves in the foreign city of Rome before we even know what's happening.

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

@Louis-Rigolly What a fascinating discussion you have set up! I initially read the thread because I'm in a v different position regarding dogs.... I have 4. 2 elderly ladies who I've had since they weaned, they bark for about 30seconds when I get home, and maybe up to a minute when we have visitors, but really they are enjoying their crone days on comfy cushions enjoying filtered light in a sunroom... Some years back I took on two younger dogs who had experienced abuse. We recently moved to the town area of a regional city from a coastal village, and I now have access to respite, so I regularly go out of an evening. Village life included very few visitors and an old stone house with high windows; less sound travel, no windows out of which to view the passing traffic, which was more likely to be kangaroos than people anyway..

Since moving the younger pups are exposed to more noises, cars, and neighbors playing cricket at the end of out culdesac. And they bark. They bark and bark, it's driving me crazy! (My eldest child laughs when I say that! And he usually 'corrects' me, with Crazier, Mum!) And when I'm going out they bark "constantly" or at least every time the respite worker gets up to check on my children, and the noise when I get home! I'm amazed the kids don't wake 😬 I have called in trainers, have anti anxiety meds for them, we are using all sorts of gentle methods to reduce the barking. I am constantly worried about neighbours complaining... Admittedly only one of 25 homes in our court is without dog/s, but even so...

A significant slice of the population in our regional centre could be described as bogan, too, but fortunately the enclave we are in is largely Uni share houses and has a fair share of academic households thanks to the presence of a huge regional university campus. (I previously lived in the beautiful but socially challenging area you mention living in, @Louis-Rigolly, and have a pretty good idea about which religious organisation you refer to...) Isn't it interesting how some people can have such different positions on similar issues. As a dog keeper, I feel personally embarrassed that you have such a difficult time with your neighbour's anti social attitude to her dogs, and @Appleblossom how scarey having a neighbour who smashes her friends' possessions (did I read that correctly?) I feel so lucky with my neighbourhood, even though it's hard to be far from the ocean, the bush and Roos. (I also went to one only foot brawl match, 1976 tigers v cats, school excursion. It was the first (and only) time I have had a hot dog.)

As an aside to another issue you brought up @Louis-Rigolly, I think you have more in common with people in this forum than you may have realised 😄 I think for many people who feel at odds with their physical local community, that fora such as this actually offer multilayered communities of support and friendship.

May this night offer peace from the aggravation of inappropriately tended canines.

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Yep @GothMum you read correctly. What is also scary is the cool calm and "friendly" way she talks to me if I am in myfront garden and there is another person present.

I keep responses minimal ... but she revels in it.

There were other things that have happened ... my bedroom is close to her driveway.

In response to: Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

Re: Dog nuisance and the elderly

That kind of behaviour is very worrying, @Appleblossom. I feel for you. Many years previously I decided to sell a beautiful home below the realtors suggestions because of proximity of a not dissimilar bully, who I just had to escape from as quickly as possible. It's terrible when one needs to be walking on eggshells because of someone else 's violent tendencies. And for those of us with acute sensitivities to things, it is just impossible to have a quality of life when your senses and awarenesses are on acute standby mode, as we closely monitor ourself not to bring such a bully's focus to us, and we closely monitor them to be able to escape quickly as soon as we see a shift.... (Crickey, I've just described my fraught relationship with my mother,)

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