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Grief and logic

Grief and logic

A thousand times in our lives we face trauma be it grief, depressive episodes or even general tolerance of life and what it throws at us.

I dont know about you but on each of these occasions during that bad period that seems to come and go so regularly, I dont feel the sun is going to rise the next day. Such is the low level of sadness and mental anguish. I simply dont feel life will get back to how it was when I was functioning ok even a few hours ago.

Isn't it logical though, for a person of reasonable intelligence, to remember that this down period will go away as it has each and every time for the last 60 odd years? My conclusion of it is that depression from grief and trauma is so overwhelming of my brain that it smothers any logic of the process of depression. If this is the case then are we thinking straight on other occasions.? For example- anger or mania? I think so.

As a young man my mania was such that its most apparent symptom realised decades later was impulsivity. I'd buy and sell a car every few weeks and every car was the one I'll "have for the rest of my life"!! So where did logic go then? I was smart, reasonable intelligence, had peer people around me in the Air Force and yes, I was immature. But why wasnt logic present when after a short time of falling in love with a super duper Datsun sss did I want a Celica? My mind like the wind changed and there was no logic as I signed the dotted line, lined the sales people with commission and drove off with my baby in heavy debt.

Back to grief. If we can somehow introduce logic into out lives to remind us that life will go on, it will go back to normal routine and it will not continue on and on...we will handle it better. We will give ourselves the time we need to recover all the time in the back of our minds we will know that its logical to believe we will overcome.

I have a laminated note in my bedside draw. It reads-

"tomorrow the sun will rise, even when today the sun appears it will set forever"

It's my own words. When down and lying in bed I reach for it. I dont choose to just remember the words, I physically read it as it then sinks in.

Logic is smothered in our down times just like calmness is absent in angry periods. We have to find ways of overcoming all that grief for a few moments only, to introduce some logical thinking of reality...that normality will return.

WK

26 replies

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In response to: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

I like your thoughtful posts @Whiteknight

Grief has been a huge factor in my life and recognising that logically has helped me.

I also see them as quite different. I have cared about logic and can be logical but that is probably as much a reaction to the level of grief I experienced ... generating a need to introduce logic.

Like you I have lost those I love to suicide, including 2 siblings.

I couldnt relate to the car topic tho. Its possible that is the way you were socialised as a male. In the end we all do have deep experiences.

Take Care

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

Thankyou everyone. It seems clear we are all on the same page.

We can always search for ways to improve how we deal with situations. I'm learning a lot from you as well.

PROBLEM FLOWER

As my problems mount

I pick a daisy flower

Pull a petal for each of my woes

An count them by the hour

And when there is just a stem

My problems as big as a city tower

I thought i had huge problems...

But not as many as that flower...

WK

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

@Whiteknight@Appleblossom@Former-Member@Former-Member

Wonderful thoughts have been shared here - I feel less alone when I read what other people share

That is an excellent poem WK - thanks for posting that

Dec

In response to: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

Hey @Whiteknight

I love reading your posts. I'm trying to grieve for my childhood lost and it's difficult. It can be days that I feel that grief is with me. And then it calms down. I know I have to allow myself time to grieve and it's not easy. I hope too that normality (whatever that is) comes back.

BB xx

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

@Owlunar@BlueBay 💜❤️💜❤️💜🌹

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

Thanks @Owlunar
Its one of 250 or so written over 25 years.

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

I've found @BlueBay that if I try too hard at remembering the distant past, that effort becomes enduring, taxing so to speak. Thats when my efforts become more hurtful than recalling my past.

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

Its interesting you say that @Whiteknight

I have recently tried to put together a submission tracing my life events in a coherent manner. When children were small I only had brief poems which were often raw. It is very draining and yet I am drawn to return to that writing project again and again. To leave some record for my children beyond more than a string of psychiatric labels and suicides.

I was watching Jordan Peterson last night (my son likes him) and he came up with the word "Complexity". I like the way he grappled with it. He was not arrogant. Complexity is growing in this world. LIke @BlueBay I am only now realising the consequences of my childhood experiences. With constantly changing physical locations and family environments it was far more complex than the average.

I like that he is very clear about not calling grief depression. I have found it unhelpful to mix them up. Unfortunately I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder before I even had any conversations about the death of my father and sister. There had been a handful of brief comments and that was it.

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

Hi @Appleblossom

Complexity, mmm, yes gotta agree with that. I think some people just glide through life yet we cannot. If you add up all the tasks we do over one month it is enormous. Take our car- vacuum, wash, maintenance, drop it off for service, rego, insurance and so on. Take meals- shopping, packing it away, meal planning, cooking, dishes, recycling, rubbish...make list for next shopping and so on.

If we are under stress something comes along and adds to the stress, suddenly we are overloaded. So how can we counter this? I've had limited success at it. My family originated in Tasmania on a farm. Generations in the farming community then suddenly us kids were in the western suburbs of Melbourne. This meant that I wasnt in a calm peaceful environment my forefathers lived. At 29yo I had the opportunity to move to the country, a decision that has assited in lowering my stress levels. Add to that direct debit on bills, a reliable diesel car, bush walks and so on and you have gone a fair way to avoiding stress.

I see the reason in separating grief and depression. You mentioned leaving your history to your kids in the written word. I recommend it. I've written a manifest that my kids grandkids can read. It has 100 poems in it, the best of them I've written. Grief and the endurance of mental illness is its main theme. EG

LEGS OF SPOKE

How can I let them know?

When the dark exceeds the glow

When the sun hides behind the clouds

Silence they hear...but I scream so loud.

Some stand beside a 6 foot hole

Shake their heads and see its toll

They ask how he could have dropped

Out of the circle -a forget me knot

Yet they seem to see clear and there is hope

When they sight a person with legs of spoke

A crippled girl pushing her chair

A man be manic- there's no one there.

"Storm in a tea cup" hurts so bad

Like the cyber crow who remains so glad

Keeps flying and in full flight

Achieves his art...in the middle of the night

For some in power see it their way

Even at the side of a 6 foot grave

Shake their head and call out "why"

"Why on earth- he didnt have to die".

So kind some be they reach out so true

Smile away "we want to meet you"

Bring along your vintage car and your smile"

But leave - what's behind your dial.

So we laugh and dine and all's ok

Leave at home come what may

If I be saddled with legs of spoke

They'd lift me around- bloody good bloke.

But as my mind hurts so bad

Cannot hide my feelings- mad?

Can no longer be bloody good bloke

Sometimes I wish.....

I had legs of spoke......

SOCIETY OF SAND

I’m sitting in a desert

Upon sand of friend and foe

Can’t find a piece of turf

Where I cannot stand on toes

I collect a handful of grain

Then watch as it escapes

Just like some friendships

A barren temporary landscape

I create my own oasis

By weeping on a weed

But the sand around me laughs

Cause it doesn’t have a need

Till lately it be the friends

That helped me walk the land

They holding me up under my feet

-supportive grains of sand

I begin to sink so slowly

As they gather my precious hide

The quick sand laughing so loud

A kind man says goodbye

And as I become one of ‘them’

My heart now granuled and dry

I try to weep to water the weed

But sand has no means to cry

Damn it! I struggle so

Be damned if I be like them

I crawl out of the society of sand

To remain the man I am…

WK

So, this oozing out of words is, I have to say, been far more effective for me than therapy. Therapy is still improtant though. Obviously this bottling up of emotions in childhood took its toll and once I had a vessel in which to extract it in the form of prose, I was on my way. It has helped me find a level of functioning I might not have had otherwise.

WK

In response to: Re: Grief and logic

Re: Grief and logic

Thanks for that. @Whiteknight

Yes I know the psychic difficulties of living in the western suburbs.

Is the anger thrown around worse than the arrogance of the eastern suburbs?

Detachment is often the healthiest response.

The individual differentiation and the oceanic sense of oneness in a desert of sand! Interesting.

I have a diesel car but more bush walks would be good.

Could you talk more about legs of spoke .. not sure I understand ... started thinking of cycling days??

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