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Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Good morning Forum Land,

So... @CheerBear @Zoe7 and I have decided to embark on an adventure of working through the DBT skills training manual together but not. That is, we all bought the manual at the same time, but we will probably work through it each in our own muddled puddled confuddled way. Consequently, who knows how this thread will end up looking. That's ok, that's why it's an adventure.

We would super love other Forumites to join us on this adventure if they want to. You definitely don't need to own the manual to join us, though if you want to, this is the book we are working from: DBT Skills Training Manual (second edition) by Marsha Linehan published in 2015. The manual has LOTS of worksheets in it, but happily, you can download those for free from this website: https://www.guilford.com/companion-site/DBT-Skills-Training-Manual-Second-Edition/9781462516995

It is important to be aware that this manual is not a self-help book. This is the manual designed to train therapists in how to deliver DBT to clients. Therefore, it can make for challenging reading at times. Personally, I find it hugely validating reading the way in which Linehan addresses the all-too-common negative and stigmatising attitudes that many mental health professionals have towards clients with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). However, others may find it distressing realising just how pervasive these attitudes can be across the mental health profession.

DBT was originally developed specifically to treat people with BPD. However, there is now a strong evidence base showing that is effective across a wide range of mental health issues. This is due to the core focus of DBT being on emotion regulation. DBT has also been shown to be effective in helping non-clinical populations manage their emotions. It may be of particular interest to some people in Forum Land, that DBT skills training has been shown to be effective in helping the carers of those with mental health issues cope with the challenges associated with that caring role.

As I said, I'm really not sure how this adventure is going to pan out...but we will never know if we don't try, will we! The manual begins with an introductory chapter outlining the theoretical basis for DBT. It has lots of nice little subheadings which breaks it up into easily manageable chunks. Thus I'm thinking @CheerBear and @Zoe7, that we could tackle the introduction based on these subheadings. Ideally I would love to do a little bit each day, but given the muddle that is my world, that is unlikely to happen. I expect it is far more likely that some weeks I will have a lot to say, and at other times, weeks may go by where I have nothing to say. I am guessing it will be the same for you...and that is a bazillion percent ok.

I superly duperly hope that some other Forumites decide to join us. But if not, that's ok too. I'm just as happy playing by myself.

And on that note, let the adventure begin...

Finding your way in the DBT adventure.

The following is a bit of a guide to navigating your way around what I anticipate will end up being quite a lengthy thread. The link will take you to the relevant page. Here in Forum Land, there are ten posts per page so you may need to scroll down a little way to find the actual post. The relevant headings are in large blue font to help you find them easily.

What is DBT? (This bit is on this first page so just scroll down).

Understanding Emotion Dysregulation

Are People With BPD Manipulative?

Accepting Our Emotions

The Consequences of Emotion Dysregulation

An Overview of DBT

Orientation, Goals and Guidelines

Pros and cons of learning and using DBT skills

Pros and cons of using DBT skills versus self-harming

Introduction to mindfulness

Mindfulness "What" Skills: Observe

Mindfulness "What" Skills: Describe and Participate

Mindfulness "How" Skills: Part One - Nonjudgmentally

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In response to: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Good morning DBT adventurers,

I confess that I have not written the next installment yet - mostly because I've been playing around far too much on the Christmas thread. My plan is to super work on Operation DBT over the Christmas/New Year period and then have all the remaining posts for the mindfulness module set to go when the world starts functioning again at the beginning of January. Poor @CheerBear, she truly thought the 24 week DBT program was going to take 24 weeks. Clearly she has never done anything with a turtle before!

@NatalieS I find it really sad that your psychologist would keep asking you why you don't feel safe. To me, that shows a lack of understanding of the effects of trauma on the brain. We can't talk ourselves into feeling safe. Our thinking happens at the front of our brain, whereas our feelings happen further back in our brain. Your psychologist could tell you eleventy million times that you are safe in her office and that isn't going to make you feel safe.

I had my first session with a new psychologist last week. She is the thirteenth therapist I've tried in less than two years. Finding a therapist who truly understands trauma is HARD. I spent most of the session curled up on her couch under a blanket, with my own soft toy and her teddy bear and weighted toy. I also got to choose which of the many other sensory objects she has, that I wanted to fidget with all through the session. She asked me early on in the session if there was anything in her office that made me feel unsafe - there wasn't. She also told me I could wander around and look at and touch anything in the office except for her desk. This approach made me feel safe. We probably won't talk about anything too deep for quite a while. Her focus right now is on helping me to feel safe, and yet I know we will establish that sense of safety without her ever asking me why I don't feel safe. We both know why I don't feel safe - because like you, the world has not been a safe place for me. Nope, I definitely don't understand why any psychologist would think you can make yourself feel safe by changing your thinking. The idea of changing feelings by changing thoughts is very CBT-ish. DBT (and some other therapeutic approaches like ACT) were developed because it was recognised that while CBT is fantastic for treating some issues (e.g. depression), it simply doesn't work with others (such as BPD/complex PTSD). The so-called "third-wave" cognitive therapies such as DBT and ACT build on CBT by incorporating mindfulness. That is, they still include a lot of CBT-based skills, but they also look at ideas like accepting emotions rather than challenging them. I wonder if it would be helpful to do some of your own research on the effects of trauma on the brain??? You mentioned that you find your psychologist really nice, so perhaps this is something you could talk through with her???

@Faith-and-Hope soooo my master bridge building consultant, what I'm hearing from @Former-Member is that you are teaching me social skills that are going to get me beaten up. Am I allowed to sue if I suffer physical injury while following any of your suggestions?

@Former-Member I have to admit, I would want to punch someone who started a sentence with "with all due respect" too!!! I super like "I statements" - which, as an aside, I learnt from the DBT manual. Stay tuned for the interpersonal effectiveness module, which, if we continue at our current rate, we should get to sometime in the year 2020!

Ok, that's it from me. Thoughts, anybody???

I use the following "I statements."

  • I want...
  • I need...
  • I feel...
  • I believe...

When I was writing my honours dissertation, my uni counsellor used to review the emails I sent to my supervisor because I had so much trouble communicating with him. K explained to me that although I was super good at using my I-statements, if you ONLY use I-statements, the tone can shift from assertive to aggressive. She said I should throw in a we-statement occasionally too. I found that super helpful.

@Former-Member how would you feel if someone started a sentence with "from my perspective..."? I don't mind that cushioning statement and I have started practicing using that one. I also like starting a sentence with "I can hear what you are saying, but...".

Anyway, that's all from me, for now. I'm super interested in hearing any thoughts/comments others might have.

In response to: Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Hi little turtle,
Yes, I like those statements
I also like "I think you're saying x, y and z however I think/feel etc etc" That one gives you an opportunity to check in with them that you understand them and let them know you are listening to them. And I find it does the opposite of what I feel when someone says to me 'with all due respect'.
Using only I statements makes you look, well...... narcissistic?
Also, you have to bear in mind,
1. This is just one dinosaur's opinion.
2. I'm a very punchy/stabby dinosaur. That's just the way I am. (If you ever hear of someone being stabbed to death with a highlighter in a library, it was probably me, and they were obviously talking in the silent zone!)

In response to: Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Not everyone is the same .... so we need a “fruit salad” of responses .....

Thats where psychs teach certain ones ..... like “I” statements .... for certain people or certain situations .... and there are times when “with all due respect” is appropriate, like offering an alternative opinion to that of a visiting international lecturer in a subject they are well versed in, and you are relatively not ..... but of course that is not an every day event either ..... on the other hand you are unlikely to be beaten up for it in a lecture room full of witnesses ..... lol ....

The point is finding your individual comfort level with whatever you choose as an opening line.

In response to: Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

@Former-Member I super like that one "I think you are saying x, y, z, however I think/feel..." I laughed a lot at your comment about stabbing someone with a highlighter for talking in the library.

@Faith-and-Hope Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh see, this is the problem!!!!! Everybody's different!!!!!!! Now with numbers, it is always the same. That's why I can do numbers and I can't do people!!!!!! All I have is rules, like K's rule that I should throw a "we" in sometimes amongst the I-statements. I can learn LOTS of rules. I can learn (and recite!!!!!) rules and subclauses of rules. But every darn person and situation is unique and thus I seem to have a remarkable talent for using the wrong rule in situations. It superly duperly hurts my brain, especially since no one will take the time to explain my mess-ups to me, they just dump me.

In response to: Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

@Phoenix_RisingI totally GET that we cant always have frontal cortex to control whole brain for sustained mental activity like uni assignments.... or dealing with powerful biochemical cascades within the brain.

A lot depends on the nature of the overwhelming feeling.

Sometimes there is no choice but to defer a task or a semester or a whole course .. and shift direction.

I love your tenacity. You seem to love the intellectual life and hold it in high value and only are able to function in it at 95%. I am a bit like that but I am also fine with 75% .. so I go with the flow more ... but only sometimes ... other times I just cannot .... there are too many competing issues for my attention. and my brain cannot put a sentence together let alone write a paragraph.

This is such a good thread to read ... I love that so many people genuinely engage with the DBT ideas and ARE BRILLIANT at pointing out limitations, problems or their own experiences. It is not just about having handy tips and strategies but working out what actually does help. Yeah @Faith-and-Hope a fruit salad of tips ....

Ha Ha @Former-Member love the thriller in the library ... very up my alley.

I have been away for a couple of weeks part darn NBN and darn life.

Good to be back.

In response to: Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Hey @Awpgirl ..... perhaps this thread can help you if you go back to the start. It’s working through the manual and workbook.

In response to: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

@Faith-and-Hope thanks a million!!!

In response to: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Hi everyone I am new to this group and am wondering if you
guys are taking new people into your group and if so how do I get started.

Also is anyone else just starting out want to buddy up with me?

In response to: Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Hi @Awpgirl,

Welcome to our DBT adventure. You are extremely welcome to join us - just jump right on in. The adventure started when @CheerBear @Zoe7 and I decided to buy the DBT manual at the same time a few months ago. As you may have noticed if you started reading the thread from the beginning, it isn't a terribly fast-paced adventure. That's partly because I'm a sea turtle and thus never do anything very quickly, and partly because CheerBear and I both seem to routinely find ourselves having not-so-fun adventures in real life that leave us feeling like we've been squished by a bus and thus the DBT adventure gets put on hold while we get unsquished. So...even though we've been DBT-ing for a few months, you haven't actually missed much!

In the first post on the thread, there are details about the DBT treatment manual and the DBT skills workbook. You don't need either of these books in order to join in the conversation though.

I have actually managed to get my brain in order enough to have been reading the manual over the past week and I plan to post my next post about it on Tuesday or Wednesday when the world kind-of starts to return to normal. I plan to finish off the mindfulness module over the next couple of weeks and then it will be @CheerBear's turn to start posting about the distress tolerance module (I wonder if she has started writing those posts yet... ). We are following a 24-week schedule from the manual and I think when we started, CheerBear had the hilarious idea that we were actually going to get through the manual in 24 weeks. Yeah...at the rate we are going, I'm anticipating a finishing date sometime in the year 2020. At least it gives everyone lots of time for reflecting and practicing each skill before moving onto the next one!

Welcome again @Awpgirl. I super hope you find the discussions on this thread helpful and I super look forward to hearing any thoughts that you want to share.

In response to: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

Re: Let's do Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT)

@Phoenix_Rising yay I'm excited.also coz one of my name's is Phoenix ❤️❤️❤️

I have the workbook however I dont have the other manual. I'm staying at my boyfriend's till Nye is over (safety plan)

Once I get home I'll read through all the posts.

My life is one of in and out of hospital so I understand how things can go slowly.
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