-Enigma-

Hello dear @Owlunar

The weather took a nasty turn here too - extremely strong winds with a temperature drop. Although still sunny it's cold (well cold for here). It's the type of weather change where we do get sick. I have some sort of cold or sinus - can never be sure which. Sorry to read that you have been sick - I hope you feel much better soon.

Thank you for your kind words. When I am depressed the first assault is on my self worth. Perhaps a lot to do with my past. But it is so painful to feel that lost where we don't see a point or any value in ourselves. That is where I was at, very low. It will take time to heal from that I think with all that has assailed me over the years but I believe it possible.

Indeed we are all works in progress to varying degrees - all have been scarred mentally and have to carry this through life the best we can. It's worth it if we can ride through those dark periods to those more happier fulfilling moments so I push forward. Sometimes though I do get so weary. When my perception goes as it did a couple of days ago I can't push very much or do it alone then. All your posts mean so much and help - thank you.

My daughter is 21. She has improved in her mannerisms and does love us - but disrespects and uses us when it comes to a roof over her head. And it is causing a lot of tension. We have asked her to move out and she saids she will but it doesn't seem to go past that. She does need to move to learn to appreciate her surrounding and what she had more. I am so tired of picking up after her and asking her to clean her mess only to be ignored. You are right, it's not on. It's not good for her either. Learning self discipline is essential to survival - she needs to know and learn this and that won't happen here. I don't do anything for her now but she trashes her environment here so much I end up having to clean it to preserve the value of own home. She won't learn that self discipline here as she knows she has me where she wants me.

If she pulled her weight respectfully here she could of come with us. She is her own worst enemy most of the time. You are right @Owlunar - she can't keep trashing with no consequences, as that is what is happening. I will have to push the issue of her moving - the only concern for me here is that she is in debt. Hopefully by the time we move next year she will have paid a lot of that off. She is irresponsible with money - spends it on all the wrong things.

She actually just rang to tell us she dumped the abusive boyfriend - yay! That's progress. And she isn't hurting at all. Maybe now she is learning not to tolerate it anymore (she can go from abuser to abuser). I so hope she meets someone nice who is more genuine and cares. An answer to a prayer. But it's up to her to make wiser choices to. I am so hoping so won't jump into another bad relationship and now really make progress.

We do need to put ourselves first @Owlunar when helping others is having a severe detrimental effect on our own mental health as my daughter is doing. She has so many issues to work through and I can't do it anymore. But we wou,d always be there for her if she needed as - just from another roof. This would make all the difference.

Thank you for your wise kind words and understand and care. We have a good little group here. Hope you are doing well - have you any plans also for the upcoming week? Hugs 🤗🌹xx

HI @Former-Member

This is the time of year for sniffles - okay - I could put up with the sniffles but I ached all over and I was tired - hopefully that has passed with the help of some Vit C and taking it easy - I actually got really fed up with myself - most unusual for me

About your daughter - about my son - wow - I can tell you that Tough Love really is tough love - we were warned when we joined Families Anonymous what could happen at the extreme end of tough love and there - it happened to us - but when I think back I was totally at the end for my resources and so stressed out I was eating but losing weight to a scary degree - we really did have to do something

And our son was 16 and that's really young - but the whole thing about Tough Love is to not enable young people - or anyone for that matter - somehow we have to learn to let our children know that we do not accept their behaviour

It's tough though - your daughter though - that's hard - she does need to move out - have the choice taken from her and push her out - that sounds so rough but we did it with our son - and the consequences are something I live with to this day - but he was abusing alcohol and had seriously broken the law - your daughter is in debt - so we have to ask ourselves some hard questions

Who broke the law? - who caused their debt? Whose problem is it?

I guess with our son it started very young with him being self-destructive and vandalistic in our home when he was 2 - 3 years old and it just got worse and it was a nightmare I can't relive - but alas your daughter is disrespecting you and your husband and your home and she's in debt - she gets into abusive relationships and generally disrespects herself as well.

It's really hard to write but she really does need to find the consequences of her trashy life hurt and to get her life together and how you can do that is not something I can suggest - only say I have been their and I know if I had to face that again I would do the same

But it is so hard - it really is so hard - and no one knows until they have lived with a child (or anyone) who causes so much dissension can they know. Yes - I can - I do know - but what to add - alas - I really don't know

I'm so sorry

Dec

@Former-Member I think I'm trying to find myself, or a self. That might sound strange for someone my age, but the choices I made throughout my life have all been of self sacrifice. I was born, unwanted, into an Irish Catholic family, the only girl with seven brothers. Girls weren't valued just baby bearers, and they saw no need in educating their only girl. I brought up my younger brother, I was 10 when he was born, I cleaned and was abused. I escaped into a convent at 16, there seemed no other choice, I had worked full time since I was 13, but not allowed any money. I did believe in God back then and hoped for better things and they were, but it brought its own difficulties. I wasn't a physically strong person and the demands of the religious life were great. I struggled through nursing, it was a teaching nursing order, but broke many times. There was no assistance and I had no idea of how to ask for help, I didn't deserve it in my opinion. Just before final vows I left, back into the world I feared and so much had changed. We were cut off in those days during training we had to keep the world out. Then I escaped into an abusive marriage for 18 years, again, in my opinion, what I deserved.

When everyone walked away, I waited for someone to come for the lost sheep, they preached about it often enough, no one came and I made my choice. I wanted honesty, truth understanding, just humanity really. I got sick of hearing one think and experiencing another. Now it's the simple things that mean the world to me, nature, a sunrise or sunset. Yes god is there somewhere I believe, just not sure of where amt.

I will look forward to the post when your daughter has moved on. She does sound selfish and unaware of your needs and those of your husbands, you both deserve better than that. I can hear your concerns for her future which must always be on your mind. But @Former-Member you deserve a life, we all do. Coming from abuse makes it hard to accept. We feel like we have to be there for everyone else, I've done it all my life. I can look after others, pets and plants, but it's another thing trying to look after me. The things learned back in our youth can still control us all these years later, but we must learn new ways. Putting me first has turned everything I was taught upside down, inside out and rocked the boat. Small steps. I made one. My friend gave me some nice perfume, normally I would give it away, but I've kept it, and at times, I use it, and enjoy it. Small step for some, huge for me. All depends on the viewpoint.

You sound like you have some plans for the week ahead and they sound good. I think peace might come with your move, hopefully before. Your husband sounds like a fine man, you have Brough happiness to each other, you deserve this. I think I night have a nice long hot shower, my bones are aching. Rest well. Warm thoughts.

@Maggie, @Former-Member, @Faith-and-Hope, @Owlunar, @Former-Member

@Owlunar Yes, I can hear you have indeed had your dark times, by the sound of it far too many. I know those days of nothingness, nothing else seems to happen. Then the pushing and getting on with whatever.

I would not wish to be young, nor am I coming back for a second round as some believe. This is it for me. And if Peter isn't at the gate, I'll have a thing or two to say. Lol. You can bet I'll have my voice then.

I'm sorry you've been hit with a virus, they take the life out of you. I hope you are feeling a lot better.

As I've rambled on in my post to @Former-Member I won't ramble on anymore. I hope you sleep well. A hug for you. And warm wishes.

Oh sheesh @Maggie

You did have a rough start - the only girl in a male-heavy family - and unrequired - how bad this has to have been - I really can't imagine what you suffered

I was lucky - I was born first and my parents wanted a girl - but alas - that girl wasn't me - their second daughter was not clever, rebellious, didn't ask questions - generally gave our mother an easier time

But although this was a shock I cannot imagine what you have been through and now wonder you have had trouble finding yourself and your place in the world.

Yes - I have been through a lot in my life - maybe this is why I need this Forum even though my stories and mostly in the past - I indentify with many stories - I know what it's like to have my mother deliberately misunderstand what I was talking about and her verbal abuse took a lot of getting over - I had repressed memories that came to life during her funeral and I wanted to run out of the chapel - but my sister-in-law and her husband held me down and they are both big people - it was a nightmare - and I fainted after the funeral and was taken to hospital for the night and yet

Those memories - they had been down deep inside me - I had a rough time for a time after my mother died but I saw a therapist and now I feel released from a co-dependent and bitter person - it was pretty toxic but finding what was in the past was scary but a relief -

So I had a choice I guess - to remain in a bad place or get out of it - I no longer have a tight, painful knot in my chest - but still - I do have my bad moments but I can say that the years make it easier

I am over the virus thank goodness - I have a lot to do today - I seem to have done most of it - it would have been pretty rotten to have been sick today - so I am glad about that

It's good that you have shared something from your life - the more we read about people's lives the better we can understand each other - and I think that is the beginning of - or one of the beginnings - of wisdom

Thanks Maggie

Dec

Hi @Maggie

Self discovery does not sound strange at your age - we keep evolving until the end of our life. And some of us can get stuck and lost in that journey. It's never too late to move forward when the opportunity arises. It's a good thing. I feel I have evolved since my breakdown, since my volunteer work and the fulfillment of it and I hope to find more opportunities to broaden my horizon of life experiences that enhance myself and others until the day I drop.

But I find the cycle of depression puts a temporary stop to that. I feel some others also tried over the years and presently to bring my naturally happy self down. And they succeeded to an extent. So I dont feel myself presently and I just want to get my natural self back again consistently.

I could imagine you and your needs would of been overlooked as an only girl in such a large family - with no sister to look out for you. Do you have any contact with your brothers?. I felt a spiritual side in you. Wow what an experience to of been a nun in a convent when young. People don't realise what a displined and hard life it was. Following vows of poverty and self denial in many ways. When I have visited monasteries and convents in the past - they did have an ambience of tranquility about them that was quite intoxicating at times. Not many of them left now though - which is a shame I think as a lot of charity work was undertaken - especially among the poor.

I understand about what you say about wanting to be rescued. Looking for honesty, integrity and compassion in humanity. My idea of a the lost sheep were people who broke Gods law hurting others (sinners) - then needing to be saved. But I could be wrong. I think you were like me, hurt and bewildered and looking to see if love and goodness existed. It was not going to come to me so I went out and searched. I found it in degrees and also found the opposite - choosing to move away from the latter. I found it in my husband.

Spirtually I relate to the God on the cross - the suffering, betrayals, hurts and the "God why have you abandon me?" I realised then Jesus suffered too....And if all followed the commandments there would be no hurt and so much injustice in the world. Made sense to me and lead me to believe. I can find God through the kind gesture of a person, a smile, in a good heart, a compassionate person, help in time of need with no motive, providence, true friendship, a compassion hug, a heroic act to save a life, in nature, flowers and plants, the cure of disease, the selfless love of a pet, and the innocence of young children - regardless of religion, creed, lack of faith or culture. In all the good things and God's love is in the midst of it. That's what I believe and that he works through others to right the wrongs. So the simple things are the best and I share this with you. When depressed I can lose total sight of all this and it's such a dark night then. My sight focuses totally on my pain and as it overwhelms it snuffs out all the light.

Thank you @Maggie for saying I deserve a life. I believe I do too but not sure if life will grant that opportunity - I live in hope. I hope this will be the case when I move. I also look forward to the day my daughter moves out where I know she is safe and keeps contact - this is so against the odds but I still hope. And for my husband's health to improve so I can enjoy life with him. All dreams - and time will tell if they will come true.

I too find it hard to put myself first for the same reason as you - not sure if I could. I am glad you let yourself enjoy the gift of perfume given out of love from a friend. Such friendships are meant to be - you were not forgotten. I am so pleased you are allowing the joy of it into your life. Lonliess can be the pits at times and allowing that to be broken up occasionally having human company we can trust and enjoyed is to me one of life's greatest gifts and enhances our lives. Things are starting to look up for you my friend and you so deserve it.

I am off to bingo tomorrow - will have to push myself as I still feel down. Something was said today that hurt me and robbed me of my good mood, my happy self, which would not take much at the moment. Oh well tomorrow is another day and hopefully will be a good one for both of us. Will talk soon. Sending a warm hug xx

@Shaz51 ❤️💜🌹xx😊

Hi @Owlunar

I totally relate to being out of resources and at the end of ones tether through stress and that things can't keep going that way in the home without something giving or someone breaking . We have reached that breaking point as well with our daughter as you did with your son. We both did our best and probably went even further but that's all we can do. Tough love does have to apply when all else fails. Not easy to do but it's all we can do.

Your right, we can't enable continuing bad behaviour resulting to all parties concerned detriment, and that is what it comes down to in the end. No choice. Our daughter has to accept the consequences and move on. I appreciate your support and understanding with this - thank you my friend. I hope your day went well. What are your plans for tomorrow? 🤗🌹xx

Hi @Former-Member

I am just flying bye to say hello... I am hoping you are okay my beautiful friend. I volunteer today and I did a great job. Thank you for your friendship and support.