Riding a wave

Okay .... first of all I never think of you as bad ..... but that word comes up for you sometimes ..... so .....

“I don’t mean to be ____________ (upset, disruptive, difficult, awash, emotional, disregulated, demanding, turbulent)

Note: none of these is “bad” ..... they just “are”.

Second of all, yes ...... I do see the abandonment feelings, and the displacement feelings ..... and the insecurity of not being able to rely on something that you thought was stable.

I wish (E) had not been in such a hurry to make drastic changes to a relationship (meant innocently) that he had encouraged to be that close. I wish he had been able to tell you that he was embarrassed, and perhaps something had been said to him that challenged his own sense of integrity or worthiness in that month away ..... who knows ? The other ministers may have been running an intervention, and it may have been at the request of his wife in an effort to restore what they saw as appropriateness.

The thing is, you see things very clearly when they are explained and black and white terms, and kept stable ..... the fact that you are studying and exploring DBT here on the forums shows that you do do change ..... you just do it slowly, carefully, systematically, with full cognition, right ?

So ..... if (E) had explained the issue of things being seen to look correct as well as actually being correct, and you worked out a plan to gently transfer your kiddo status to both husband and wife, and then to other church seniors and supportive members of the church community, carefully working from Point A to Point B on Project Re-defineAppropriate Boundaries, I am guessing you would have been fine.

20/20 vision in hind-sight, right ??

But you were the minor, and it seems to me that the duty of care towards you was not upheld .....

Absolutely I can see how the structural changes within the Moderator hierarchy (and I am presuming here .....) have left you feeling similarly bereft.

What can we do about that ?

Formulate some questions perhaps .....

I am hearing that the forums are intended as a peer-to-peer support. That would mean that the moderators are intended to move from the front passenger seat in the Forumland buses progressively towards the rear of the bus ..... unless there is an emergency or a major altercation, at which point they are to come tearing forward to be on hand.

Does that mean they have changed who they are ? No. They are still the same lovely moderators we have known to date ..... along with new lovely moderators whom we are getting to know (bm’s, right ?) .... so we are actually going to have more lovely moderators than ever before as we gather more forumites than ever before ..... which means opening new threads so we don’t have to all crowd on the one bus thread .....

Is that sounding and feeling a bit better ?

I think Forumland started out with maybe only NikNik and Cherrybomb .... and a lot of the time the6 would have been sitting there waiting for a single post to come through in maybe half a day .....

Fiunding has likely grown along with membership, which means Forumland can meet and mentor a lot more people in need of what we have been benefitting from so greatly here ......

Suggestion -

Email Rockpool and ask about the @ Mod function ..... how it should be used .... what alternative (think: buffet) options are available ..... and whether it is a problem to tag mods by name.

Ask about Help Centre protocol and how to manage when you’re feeling overwhelmed. Perhaps there can be a key phrase you can use so the mods have their own safety plan for calks that are beyond their usual experience ...... perhaps they need a little extra training re BPD forumites, for instance, and what are specific to their needs .... their “dialects” ..... Aspies too .... PTSD challenged ones ..... etc.

I hope I haven’t missed you going to bed in answering with such a long post @Phoenix_Rising ..... and I hope it has answered a few of the confusing thoughts.

🌿

Goodnight @Appleblossom ...... ♥️😴

@Faith-and-Hope The problem solving part of that is helpful, the attempt at reframing it, not so much. I find reframing intensely invalidating. This was exactly what kept happening way back with the situation with E.

When I read the bit about the moderators gradually moving back, that triggers precisely the issue. As I said, I can do boundaries SO LONG AS THEY DON'T CHANGE. I feel better for having dumped, but I really need sitting with the mess rather than trying to put a silver lining or a positive reframe on the mess.

The holiday E went on was simply a holiday. It was a tour of the holy lands. I feel angry and frustrated that you are making assumptions. This is what always happens. People try to reframe things when what I need is people to SIT with them.

Some of those words you listed as not "bad" are amongst my "bad" words: I am demanding and manipulative and utterly selfish and difficult and annoying and exhausting to be with and scary.

If I'm not bad, why have I been thrown out of TWO churches? Why have I had FOUR restraining orders taken out against me? Why have I had other people threaten to take out a restraining order if I attempt further contact with them?

I don't need positive reframing, I need help to deal with the situation as it really is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Angry turtle...and I know you know I super like you and I'm not angry at you per se. The anger is just secondary to the grief and despair.

You are right that E could have managed the situation a bazillion times better. If he had simply stood still (i.e. not getting closer and not backing off) I would have naturally moved away from him just like a typical kid gradually moves away from a biological parent. That is what he should have done. He should have simply stood still.

Understanding the "why" of why the moderators have become so distant will in no way at all help me - anymore than it helped me when E explained why he was pushing me away. On the other hand, talking it through and coming up with some compensatory strategies would definitely be helpful. As you say, if E really felt the need to withdraw, it should have happened oh-so-slowly with a lot of other supports in place. Something seems to have gone very wrong with the recent changes at SANE.

A lot of what you are suggesting is what I've been crying out for, for the past few weeks behind the scenes. This situation definitely didn't just explode into being on Thursday night. The events of Thursday night just threw it massively into the spotlight.

I keep deleting bits now - again, too scared of saying the wrong thing. One thing I'm sure it is safe for me to say is that NikNik made the rule that we aren't allowed to call the new moderators BMs anymore.

What relevence is it to me whether the moderators are the same wonderful people as they've always been, if they are now invisible? I believe E to be the same wonderful man as he was twenty one years ago - that doesn't in any way help with the grief and loss.

I so very very badly need help with this muddle. Super super SUPER big thank you for being here tonight @Faith-and-Hope. I know I'm using my angry voice a bit, but I know you know it is because of the giant hurt feelings. There are parts of the puzzle that you don't know and I know you can only give advice based on the bits you do know. This is why I really really really need to work it through with someone who knows the other pieces of the puzzle and from my perspective, that should have happened at the earliest opportunity - i.e. Monday. My understanding from Rockpool's email is that it will happen some time today.

I have had a MASSIVE cry and feel better for it. I am ready to snuggle back into my shell now. I super like you @Faith-and-Hope and I mean what I say about hoping that I'll be like you one day when I grow up.

Oh and I SUPER like the poem. Thank you for being you.

Night.

@Phoenix_Rising ..... it is pumpkin hour here now, and I have made a commitment to trying to go to bed by now, if not before ..... whenever possible.

I hope the seas have calmed enough for you that you can park it up enough to sleep now, and explore this some more tomorrow.

I know you don’t do hugs ..... so I am going to push some petals across the water to you, and if you don’t want to gather them, then let them drift on by ..... but know that I am thinking of yo7, and very fondly .....

Goodnight my favourite turtle in al, the world .....

Hearing you @Phoenix_Rising ..... and hearing all the anger and hurt .....

I am not sure the moderators have moved back ..... I am thinking that they are sitting still..... but that is just my perception and I know everybody’s is different according to their own experiences, personalities, outlooks, etc ..... and you feel what you feel .....

I am glad you’re feeling better for having had a massive cry. I did the other week .... was feeling really muddled about my muddle and having had my fingers slammed in the door .....

G’night .....

Re dump. Better out than in.

I am amazed at the way you describe your BIG feelings. When I read those posts they sound so accurate of feelings I have had but would not have the words to describe as you do. SO I learn from you.In my world there was no gradual anything. A great deal of what should not happen. The more I struggle with the injustice of it the more tortured I became.

I believe in your many strengths and hope your faith in yourself grows. I am sorry you have had a hard week and big negative response to mods backing off. Panic and abandonment are hard and so are big angry feelings. Can your turtle see your strengths?

I have had my own fire breathing dragon, turbulence and tangles tonight @Phoenix_Rising and do not think it wise to interweave our tangles, but read your posts with sympathy.

I am more Aspie than my bro but he struggled with BPD and it broke my heart seeing how hard it was for him, but he was also hard for me.

Personal growth can happen in so many ways, sometimes without us even knowing, as we try a bit of this and a bit of that.

Tried to sleep, but as you can see ... no luck... but I will try again.

Hope you manage some shut eye.

@Phoenix_Rising Sitting with you this morning - still on my rock stack unless you would prefer me on Gen Giraffe out on the ocean

I understand how you are feeling around the changes that seemed to have happened which have left you in such a muddle. There has been a very distinct change in accessing support - I do not feel comfortable myself with this and also feel that what has previously been indicated is no longer an option for me. Like you (but not to the same extent at all) it is just more people in my life that say they care but then 'pull away' - so any trust that I had developed is also now gone. I get that over-reliance on one or two people can become an 'attachment' issue but it feels like one has been 'reeled in', allowed to get close, stopped fighting to escape getting close and then once accepting this - thrown back into the ocean (using a sea analogy here just for you ) I know things change but it doesn't just feel like the flags on the beach have been moved - but the whole beach has. One cannot do boundaries if one does not know what they are - and definitely can't do them if they are changed and one is unaware of the changes.

@Zoe7 Super big thank you for validating what I am experiencing. It is impossible to say whether I am experiencing more distress around this than you. What you describe fits very well with my experience. Perhaps we just exhibit the distress differently. One of the diagnostic criteria of BPD is makes frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Um...yeah...if anyone has ever wondered what that actually looks like, it pretty much looks like all the storm damage across Forum Land right now. You probably don't have to think too hard to imagine what it looks like when a situation like this arises here in the real world. That is why I won't ever do it again here in the real world - get close to someone, I mean. Indeed, you may have noticed, I find it really really REALLY hard to get close to anyone in Forum Land. What is unfolding right now is the reason why that is so. In the time I have been in Forum Land, I have started to feel safe enough to accept a hug from two people. Those hugs have now been withdrawn as being deemed inappropriate. How is any little turtle supposed to make sense of that.

Your description is SO accurate of the way I am feeling. I haven't completely lost trust yet, but the trust is definitely being superly duperly challenged at the moment. My deepest hope is that although this is causing a whole lot of harm right now, perhaps we are in the process of changing the world. Changing the world is HARD!!! Often when structures are rebuilt after an area has been flattened by a storm, they are stronger and better than the structures that were flattened. Right now this storm is still going on. But hopefully it will settle soon and then we can continue the cleanup and then begin the rebuilding process.

I am SO confused and I am certainly doing nothing other than staying alive this morning. This is so so SO hard.

Similar place, similar things happening for me....so very destructive and it’s hurts so very deeply. Was making so much progress. It’s ripping me up.