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Managing thoughts of suicide & self-harm

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I figure it's better to introduce my challenges here than in a welcome. Hopefully only people willing to hear about SI will venture here.

TW: Suicidal Ideation

Content/trigger warning

I've had thoughts of suicide since I was 12. I don't remember much of life before this time. I'm aware there are times that I haven't though as much about suicide as others, but it's always been a "yes please, that would be my preference" even during the better times.

Why am I still alive then? For two reasons:

- the emotional pain it would cause to very close family.

- the physical pain of accessible methods, and the risks of non-fatal attempts causing lifelong physical impairments.

How do I keep myself going all these years?

By focusing on how I can benefit other people's lives instead. If I'm going to put up with life, it may as well be beneficial to someone.

And to help me keep life less monotonous I look for 'interesting' things - quirky people, exploring foreign countries/cultures, trying new foods (even if i dont think I'll like them). I've never been a status-quo person.

I explain to MH supports that when life is not distressing I can carry on without seriously considering suicide as a possible option. I can say "hello there thought, I hear you but I have chosen not to act on it, things are OK". But when something sets things off kilter, its a pretty quick track back to "why am I still doing this? Do I really still have the same commitment to living? And why, for whom? Why can't I be permitted to die if that's what I want for myself?"

With decades of this under my belt, I have the ability to sit with feelings of extreme distress. And the courage to text or call someone if I need to - and I'm getting a little better at doing this *before* it gets too extreme, but I still hesitate because I don't want to burden others and the frequency of it happening during those unbalanced times is too often. I've persuaded myself a few times recently to instead call a crisis line, but waiting 30-45min in a queue can sometimes exacerbate the thoughts, and sometimes the calls might help dissipate the feelings (if i called early enough) but other times I feel worse after because of course they're going to try to give some positive outlook for the future, but it grates on me because deep down I dont want a future at all. Its actually refreshing when someone acknowledges that not liking/wanting life is OK - and instead just tries to look at how to rebalance the scales to help me cope with continuing to live despite not wanting to.

I'm not sure how un/common my way of thinking is. So much about suicide prevention is focused on short-term distress tolerance or "fixable" problems (eg situations).

What do I need from the community here...?

To be heard? To know if anyone else out there has a long enduring preference to die even when they aren't feeling active distress? And if so, has anything helped them longterm to shift that thinking?

If anyone knows of any practitioners who *specialise* in chronic SI since a young age, I'd really love to know who (if there is a way someone is allowed to??). I've tried Google searching and using online psych directories and reading bio's. I've seen many psychologists and psychiatrists in the past who haven't been able to help me shift this (even if theyve helped in other ways).

I do wonder if my neural networks for positive emotional may not have fully developed or may have atrophied due to the young age and length of time. I genuinely do not know what being happy feels like, I do not have any memory that I recall as being "happy" or joy, and I suspect this makes recovery much harder.

Im ok at the moment. Im safe. But it is exhausting.

Apologies this post is quite a bit too long.

1604 replies

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In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

When GP starts talking about you being best considering to reduce hrs at work or quit altogether, @AlwaysMyself that said a lot.

remember a timeline being mentioned, that at end of timeline if I was still working full time there would be some one to one conversations between GP and me about why plus thoughts about being deemed unfit to work.

i voluntarily retired early about halfway through the timeline. For physical and MH aspects, best decision in long time. No longer going to work led to lots of things I blocked, pushed aside and never dealt with come to the surface fairly quickly, something I wasn’t expecting. Oh well, still better now than if had kept pushing myself to go to toxic environment every week day

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I feel that @Flutterbug9 . My current GP didn't suggest the idea, but he agreed with the idea. The HR support I had been speaking with during the work-crisis stage at the middle of last year was very glad to hear I was taking some time off work for my MH 😅 -- when HR are glad, I think that says something too lol. Perhaps also because they had been seeing how work was exacerbating things and they don't have the ability to control poor managers (only to go through the lengthy process of raising issues with them - which they admit can also risk resulting in further retaliations interpersonally).

Over the time since retiring, do you feel you have been able to make positive progress in your physical and/or MH due to not working?

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

TW: ED, SH (Non-SI)

Content/trigger warning
When writing things down yesterday I realised that my phase of "not-eating" coincided to be around the time I stopped SH (which was due to a friend having nightmares). I never considered my eating behaviours an ED- because I did not meet the DSM criteria around the focus on body-image. So whilst I knew about ED's, I didnt ever identify as having one (and nor did my psychologists classify it as one either!). Plus, I didn't show physical affects of it.

i tried to think back about why i had that behaviour. I was depressed and didn't have appetite or motivation, yes. But I do remember times when I felt the physical signals to not do the disordered behaviour. 😬 I only behaved normally when someone might notice if i didnt. I realise now this was an eating disorder.

so of course I reflect on why I put that control over myself (and I know from reading/listening that control over something is a really common motive with EDs too)... and I realised.. because I was expressing pain that I felt within myself. The same as I used SH for.

Did some googling, and really interesting to read that this type of eating disorder has only been in the DSM since 2013 -- which makes sense why it was not realised back when I had this in 2005! and even then, the linkage of this condition to SH has only been around since 2024!! 2 years ago?!

Apparently I was wwaaayyy ahead of the times? 🤣 But I guess I just didn't know about it either!


Just noting in case this is interesting learning in case its not something yet commonly known/taught about.
@tyme @AuntGlow @Jynx @Ru-bee @rav3n

Not something I need help/support with myself. I haven't had this since the end of 2005 😊.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

My physical health has improved @AlwaysMyself

MH struggles I was dealing with have decreased also.

example cataract surgery 2023 would have resulted in me having to have taken few weeks on leave for each eye.

the stress of dealing with management.

the stress of working out which type/s of leave I had the most of that I could use and having to apply to take the leave. Stress and talking behind my back from other staff about impact on rest of the staff.

I didn’t have to deal with any of that.
was straight forward chat with ophthalmologist, dates set, over night stay in hospital for each eye followed by relaxing at home post surgery, doing things I felt like doing.

other option would have been using planned leave. Applying for holidays/annual leave 12mths prior to period requested for and hoping it was granted. If granted, I would then have had to contact specialist rooms requesting them book surgery for time I would be on leave. Most likely only being able to have one eye done one year and then waiting another 12mths

are you thinking about quitting current employer?

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Eating disorder. @AlwaysMyself Do you feel it was 100% subconscious, 100% anxiety driven or mix of both?

Content/trigger warning
I went through period of time where it felt useless to try to eat. 100% anxiety driven, I was unable to keep food down. reached a point stopped trying to eat anything unless my father was home. Had to “eat” those times to try to prevent verbal abuse starting. Very different circumstances than what you described. Only mentioned due to semi connection to feeling hungry and impact of attempting to eat.

here for you if you want to chat, no pressure

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

How are you going on your own record of health background etc? @AlwaysMyself

work in progress?

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I am glad things have improved over time @Flutterbug9 - and yes, I can see how retiring pre-op makes it much easier than having to arrange it around work leave. I'm not sure if you have mentioned what line of work you did? But also know that might not be safe for you to answer for privacy & that is completely OK too.

I am currently on personal (sick) leave from work, and after that I plan to take Annual Leave. That should last me another few months according to my latest balance from HR last week. After that, the plan is to take "leave without pay" which is usually permitted/approved for up to 12 months (I could not believe this when I first learned of this 4 years ago lol). During this time I can work out if I am able to work longterm, and if I am, what type of work I will do, and then based on that whether I will return to my employer. My employer is large and thus internal transfers to a less harmful team/area is possible as long as I have the skills for the role (whether HR would facilitate this, I am not sure. I may have to do otherwise do it like any recruitment for a role via competitive applications. However if it was under a "return to work" plan, I think HR might be more flexible on deeming what is safe for my own MH). There has been so much... uncertainty .. in my workplace over the past 3 years and constantly hearing that the org structure might change drastically - which would be a good thing in my view based on the problems that are happening between teams.

TW eating disorder SH

Content/trigger warning
No anxiety for me. I behaved on those occasions because I did not want to be noticed as abnormal behaviour. Did not want to raise eyebrows. I always hid my depression and SH as much as I could.

My actions weren't logical, and so I struggle to put meaning to it sometimes. I felt depressed. I felt angry. I was hurting inside and couldn't express it. I wanted to punish myself perhaps? I recall telling myself that I shouldn't feel hungry (because I was depressed?) and willing myself not to eat and to mentally dispel the thoughts and sensations - in the same way that I do for pain management.

Actually, I do notice that when I experience strong physical pain (eg my weekly remedial massage), one of my brain's auto-jumps for coping with the very strong pain when it is intense it to say "you should feel pain, like inside" and "think of your depression, its like SH pain" and somehow even though I don't believe it myself "you deserve the pain, to learn to tolerate it". I try not to encourage these thoughts in my mental pain-management, I focus on breathing and relaxing muscles, etc. I do notice sometimes when the pain get very high that I come close to dissociating. I know I could ask them to be softer, but I know the deeper massage helps the muscles a lot and something in me always tells me it is "healthy" to learn to sit with and tolerate even extreme pain.

I realise on reflecting that I actually had a very short time of doing this disordered eating 3 years prior too, when I was on a school camp - and thus no one was monitoring what I did or did not eat. This was at the very start of my depression, before any SH but I already had SI by then. It was only a 4 day camp. I honestly don't know if I did this at any other time, but this one situation I do remember.

I managed to write down dot-point timeline of things impacting my MH (and fatigue & pain which impacts it). I realised how hard it is now for me to place which specific years things happened even during high school. I have to place it against which classes or teachers or such events to allocate the timeline. Else they feel more like snippet blurs of just "in high school" generally. I also honestly am struggling to remember non-factual (i.e. emotional or photographic) memories of things from after that time too, even from as recent as 5 years ago. Everything feels so... generic? disconnected I guess. there are just facts.

Meeting with counsellor today was good I think. We spoke in more depth about my primary school experiences, but also how they likely impact why I never feel certain on knowing someone's intentions (because of the variable treatment i would get from the same people on different occasions) unless i know them very well and "know their heart" as it were. Any time I perceive people are half-in half-out I find it very hard to know where to put boundaries.

We also touched a little on the other early-childhood experience with my grandparent, and kept that very non-specific. More about how I responded to the realisation when I was a teenager and how i see their actions/motive now. But I did not open that can of worms further because I noticed we were over-time and she had not stopped the conversation flow lol. I guess she didn't have anyone booked in straight after, so she didn't feel the need to shut down the conversation once I had started to be OK to connect a little about it. She even took the time afterward to make sure I was OK, and instead of letting me just "shutdown" emotionally and "mask up" because it was "the end of the session, and back to the outside world" (as I say it) she invited me to sit for another 5 minutes to just let the emotion be before leaving, not to shut the emotion out like I have always learned to do at the end of sessions in my younger years.

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself wish I could share some of my personal anecdotes about PAT with you. One could perhaps say that there's a reason why it became a special interest for me. I suppose all I'll say is... I have high hopes for you 😉🤞

Your whole paragraph about the 'cost' of maintaining a certain output of work whilst also being able to maintain a healthy balance with other needs and pursuits is just so spot on. I could rant for a long time about the pressures of being entrenched in systems that equate our worth with labour, and fill a book with all of my condemning thoughts about crapitalism... it sometimes feels like it 'taints' everything, and so yeah it makes sense to me that sometimes, finding that 'I'd rather live' factor can feel so incredibly challenging.

That sucks about the way your mum is hovering over you. Even if it is coming from a place of care and concern, it sounds like it's not the right support, and is becoming more of a hindrance to your day-to-day. Could you maybe express to her a bit of a boundary around feeling 'monitored' and offer some alternative ways that she could support you that would be more meaningful/suitable? That way she can still feel like she's 'doing something' but it wouldn't make you feel overwhelmed about something as simple as leaving the house when you want to.

Really appreciate the insights into ED behaviours, sounds like it's been quite an epiphany to connect those dots. Glad it's something you've been able to work through even without that overarching framework of understanding! Totally goes to show though, that's it's never straight forward and that everyone's experiences are unique. I'm of the opinion that no DSM, no matter how meticulous or detailed, can ever truly capture the breadth of ways that human minds work, or how human bodies respond to trauma.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Thanks @Jynx . You have me intrigued lol. But encouraged. If the powers that be permit it, I give you absolute permission to email me with your anecdotes/experiences. It could be both motivating-encouraging to hear personal experience from someone I know, and good to have a better understanding of what the physical and mental experience might be like -- because I have no 'informal' experiences to refer to there! Nor friends of that inclination to ask.

I did tell my mum that I didn't feel it was reasonable to expect me to tell her every time I am going somewhere; she said she knows she can't tell me to and can only ask. However I think she took my point, as she has not raised it again. However I have at times been considerate to tell her when I was leaving, if i didn't think she would know I was going out. She hasn't been "checking" on me as much this week - but perhaps also because I have spent most of my daytime out instead of at home. I think asking each other if we want to watch a TV show together is a good way to "check in" because it allows either one of us to say "yes" if we want/need company, even without saying how we feel. (I say "we", but she never talks about her emotions - only her physical health).

Yeah, I guess the ED behaviours slowly stopped when I was able to acknowledge they were unhealthy and had a decrease in the intensity of my feelings or how I expressed them? I honestly do not remember stopping the behaviours, I only know when I did because I remember a friend making a really unintentionally-insensitive/easily-offensive comment with reference to it. But I knew they meant it as a complement, it was just ... a really weird way to say it. So I just laughed and didn't take any offense from it. I think you may get a laugh from it, so I shall share what was said in a box.

Content/trigger warning
Context: prior/during I was very healthy physically. However, when I did start eating normally again my metabolism did not adjust. So what did my male friend (a very close friend, well intent) say to me after a school holiday break?
"You're looking nice and plump today"
😳
Thank goodness my eating patterns were not related to my self-image at all!!!!!! 😂
This friend themselves had issues with ED so I don't know if somehow their ED impacted on their thoughts with regard to this comment. I think they probably assumed that my eating behaviours were due to self-image (bearing in mind that back then the only EDs were).

Yep, true story. I laughed at the phrase then, and I still do now. I am glad that is just how I roll with things when people say something well-intentioned but... inexplicable.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Paid work I did was for Aust Federal Government in generalised field of customer service. Different departments, different roles. Roles that have seen me working with refugees and people with disabilities and various other groups. Prefer to leave it at that. (Edits made by myself)

good that you have lot of options available before you will need to make big decisions of returning to work or not; if yes, number of hours plus roles. If return to work, regardless of employer, could letter from specialists explaining your work capacity possibly be an advantage?

uncertain of people’s intentions. I get that and hear you. Know that feeling all too well. Developing brain trying to process, deal with and come to terms with impact of everything on your nervous system, the lack of eating makes sense to me.

how does knowing you struggle to have memories about certain times etc make you ‘feel’ ie sad, nothing etc. does it worry you?

reading where you are having some of, what can/might, be really heavy things to talk about …. Well done. Really proud of you. Great to hear counsellor didn’t come to “times up” and just leave you to deal with initial flow through of things talked about in counselling. Approx how long have you been seeing them? Do you ‘feel’ comfortable and have a sense of trust with and in them?

@AlwaysMyself I only share things I’m comfortable to do so and that I know I can share. 🙂

approx 30 here today led to me putting my hair in a ponytail for comfort. Shoulder joints told me they were far from happy whilst doing so. Another reason I’m looking forward to next week.
pre puberty my hair, apparently, only evenly grew to top of collar. Post puberty my hair thickened and finally started to grow in healthy condition. Apparently I used to beg for my hair not to be cut as I wanted it to be long like my maternal grandmothers had been when she was young. Apparently hair length enabled it to be sat on.

Mid teens and my hair grew to my waist approximately. First overseas trip in early 20’s and was cut similar to short pixie style.

i have photo of my maternal grandmother similar age to my current age, her hair quite short.

my twisted sense of humour sees another connection between her and I.

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