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Managing thoughts of suicide & self-harm

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I figure it's better to introduce my challenges here than in a welcome. Hopefully only people willing to hear about SI will venture here.

TW: Suicidal Ideation

Content/trigger warning

I've had thoughts of suicide since I was 12. I don't remember much of life before this time. I'm aware there are times that I haven't though as much about suicide as others, but it's always been a "yes please, that would be my preference" even during the better times.

Why am I still alive then? For two reasons:

- the emotional pain it would cause to very close family.

- the physical pain of accessible methods, and the risks of non-fatal attempts causing lifelong physical impairments.

How do I keep myself going all these years?

By focusing on how I can benefit other people's lives instead. If I'm going to put up with life, it may as well be beneficial to someone.

And to help me keep life less monotonous I look for 'interesting' things - quirky people, exploring foreign countries/cultures, trying new foods (even if i dont think I'll like them). I've never been a status-quo person.

I explain to MH supports that when life is not distressing I can carry on without seriously considering suicide as a possible option. I can say "hello there thought, I hear you but I have chosen not to act on it, things are OK". But when something sets things off kilter, its a pretty quick track back to "why am I still doing this? Do I really still have the same commitment to living? And why, for whom? Why can't I be permitted to die if that's what I want for myself?"

With decades of this under my belt, I have the ability to sit with feelings of extreme distress. And the courage to text or call someone if I need to - and I'm getting a little better at doing this *before* it gets too extreme, but I still hesitate because I don't want to burden others and the frequency of it happening during those unbalanced times is too often. I've persuaded myself a few times recently to instead call a crisis line, but waiting 30-45min in a queue can sometimes exacerbate the thoughts, and sometimes the calls might help dissipate the feelings (if i called early enough) but other times I feel worse after because of course they're going to try to give some positive outlook for the future, but it grates on me because deep down I dont want a future at all. Its actually refreshing when someone acknowledges that not liking/wanting life is OK - and instead just tries to look at how to rebalance the scales to help me cope with continuing to live despite not wanting to.

I'm not sure how un/common my way of thinking is. So much about suicide prevention is focused on short-term distress tolerance or "fixable" problems (eg situations).

What do I need from the community here...?

To be heard? To know if anyone else out there has a long enduring preference to die even when they aren't feeling active distress? And if so, has anything helped them longterm to shift that thinking?

If anyone knows of any practitioners who *specialise* in chronic SI since a young age, I'd really love to know who (if there is a way someone is allowed to??). I've tried Google searching and using online psych directories and reading bio's. I've seen many psychologists and psychiatrists in the past who haven't been able to help me shift this (even if theyve helped in other ways).

I do wonder if my neural networks for positive emotional may not have fully developed or may have atrophied due to the young age and length of time. I genuinely do not know what being happy feels like, I do not have any memory that I recall as being "happy" or joy, and I suspect this makes recovery much harder.

Im ok at the moment. Im safe. But it is exhausting.

Apologies this post is quite a bit too long.

1604 replies

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In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself


@AlwaysMyself wrote:

I am becoming aware that some of the "self-management" and "coping" skills i was taught early are in some ways detrimental for me @Jynx - but because i guess of the extreme i interpreted them as, perhaps?

But i honestly dont know how they were "intended" to be taken.

E.g. being taught to *understand* why people act in ways (are they grumpy from something else? Are they busy and stressed? And they in pain? Etc etc).

Super useful sometimes. But ... if its internalised as "Now that i understand why they do that, their action should not cause me upset" then it leads to quashing that emotion and mentally justifying why i dont need to feel that way. And yeah, that doesnt seem to work for actually processing and releasing the emotion. It just shoves it in a corner out of sight because "im not allowed to feel that, because i know why they acted that way". Or "because i know it is in the past and cant actually hurt me anymore".

All those "irrational emotions" get pushed aside.

Thats just one example of a technique that can be really useful.... but can also be harmful when i have interpreted it further than it was perhaps intended?

Same goes for self-reliance. I was told to self-manage and self-soothe. I wasnt taught to reach out to people unless it was a crisis. And to me, crisis means quite possibly imminently life threatening. So anything less than that? Nope, not allowed to call someone for help.

Also not helpful 😅🤣 and now im learning to question that perhaps this isnt what was intended lol.


Perhaps because of the 'extreme' interpretation, and/or perhaps because some coping skills that are regularly taught aren't necessarily as helpful for ND brains.

Sounds like what is missing from that first example you've given is the sort of nuance of multiple things being true, even if they seem to conflict. Like you can give someone grace because you know that their actions weren't intended to be hurtful, but also give yourself grace for feeling that hurt. Just because we can understand why someone has hurt us, it doesn't mean we have to then ignore the impact it's had on us.

I learned recently (from a book called 'Polywise' by Jessica Fern; incredible book for delving into relationships and attachment stuff, even if you're not poly) about the impacts of our punitive justice system on the ways we are taught to handle conflict, by and large. Most conflicts in our lives, we tend to feel like there has to be someone who is right and someone who is wrong, a winner and a loser, the good victim and the bad perpetrator. It's rarely that simple though, and so it means that someone can hurt us, but if they 'did nothing wrong' then we default to feeling that our hurt is wrong or irrational, and may ignore, repress, or diminish our experiences.

It's why one of my fav things to bring into any relationship conflict is the reminder - 'It's not you vs. me, it's you and me vs. the problem.' Has helped immensely!

Could you reframe the whole 'don't reach out unless in life-threatening crisis' into something like... 'Reaching out is a way to prevent me getting to crisis-point, where I may need a lot more support than if I act sooner' or something like that? I don't know if you carry the narrative that many folks here do, about being a 'burden' on the MH system or on our loved ones by reaching out all the time... but I try to remind people that our MH system exists entirely for that purpose, that reaching out sooner is overall less burdensome because we probably do use up fewer resources that way, and that our loved ones, by and large, would prefer us to reach out than to suffer in silence... that's been my experience anyway!

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself Hello lovely. 🙂 How’s things? I made Greek salad again last night and now it reminds me if you lol! 😂 I’ll try to remember to take a photo of one of my salads. My brain is jelly and I’m a bit like that little cute fish in Finding Nemo where I totally forget in a second what I said I would do …

How was coffee with the fur babies? It’s been hot here so we’ve been inside.

Im glad you got some things done. Well done because I know it is hard to do those things feels like climbing a huge mountain on 1 leg! Now you have a nice clear doorway yay!

Honestly whatever works food wise is excellent. Easy meals even cold are very delicious and you’ve got a healthy balance too!

What’s the book called you’ve been reading/listening to? It’s hard sometimes to know whether it’s autism or mental health stuff or both. Many over lapping characteristics too. I tend to do a lot of research into stuff and then explain it all to people so they can see what I mean. If I am unfamiliar I ask a lot of questions lol! I like to understand how people piece their views together. I tend to ask a lot of questions to understand a person better.

Im glad you’ve got a decent counsellor. That is one very important thing and very hard to find. Also that they have up to date knowledge because I do and it frustrates me when they are not up to date with best evidence based practice.

My days are hard but I’m persevering. Trying to find a way to access some quality therapy and support. I also got a new job which I started this week. It’s a research role. Can’t say too much as it is unique and easy to identify. It is short term and working from home except for when I’m doing the qualitative interviews. 🙂 I’m hoping it will help my mental health a little. Give me some people contact and get my brain working on science rather than how I’m feeling.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself thinking of you sweet ❤️.

 

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning


@Jynx wrote:

Sounds like what is missing from that first example you've given is the sort of nuance of multiple things being true, even if they seem to conflict. Like you can give someone grace because you know that their actions weren't intended to be hurtful, but also give yourself grace for feeling that hurt. Just because we can understand why someone has hurt us, it doesn't mean we have to then ignore the impact it's had on us.


@Jynx absolutely. It's what I'm coming to accept that it is OK to feel hurt - even if they didn't intend it that way, and/or even if I understand why they did it (e.g. abuse). But I recognise that in less-serious matters as a child it was treated as though to push aside the hurt because there is logic -- and so this pattern also internally of myself extended to more serious issues too, including how I processed abuse.


@Jynx wrote:

Could you reframe the whole 'don't reach out unless in life-threatening crisis' into something like... 'Reaching out is a way to prevent me getting to crisis-point, where I may need a lot more support than if I act sooner' or something like that? I don't know if you carry the narrative that many folks here do, about being a 'burden' on the MH system or on our loved ones by reaching out all the time... but I try to remind people that our MH system exists entirely for that purpose, that reaching out sooner is overall less burdensome because we probably do use up fewer resources that way, and that our loved ones, by and large, would prefer us to reach out than to suffer in silence... that's been my experience anyway!


That is how I reframe it now @Jynx , the "preventing deterioration" / orange-light. But it never feels "normal" or "easy" because I always have that knowledge in the back of my mind that I can cope by myself, even without any MH supports external to me -- because I have done it for so many years. It's not helpful for me to not have any MH supports, and it leads to continual deterioration, but I can keep living with that if I want to. 😅

I have more concern for being a burden on friends than I do on professional services - because they are paid for it! 😅

But when it comes to crisis-services for immediate support - I am aware that helping me delays helping someone else, if they are at capacity. I am more comfortable to access those supports if I knew they were not at-capacity and helping me would not delay or prevent helping someone else who may need it more and may not yet have the skills to cope alone if need be. The problem is that I also know the drop-in centre won't say "Oh, we've just reached capacity now - do you want me to let you know if another person arrives seeking help, so that you can choose whether you are OK to leave and for us to support them instead?" But if I knew they would do that - then I could reach out there without any concern. And I know that if I were still really distressed and needed to talk, I'd say I still needed support. Or if I was distressed by OK to sit by myself for a while, I would just ask if I could do that whilst they chatted to the newly-arrived person, until I felt OK to leave. I don't know if they have a policy preventing them from this, or if they just don't feel they can do that because its not how they think, or if they don't realise that I'm not just saying it out of self-deprecation, I am saying it because it's what I see as appropriate triage and reduces a barrier to me seeking adhoc supports.

Interestingly, I've never felt this barrier with the phone crisis lines. But I think that is because I don't feel better when I talk to them - and sometimes I feel worse afterwards, so the idea of "I'm OK now, it's OK to talk to someone else" doesn't really come up? And because they can make things worse and only once ever maybe made things feel a little less intense after, I don't call them unless its my absolute last/only option and I really don't want to tolerate the repetitive thoughts anymore.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning


@Cuddlebear wrote:

I made Greek salad again last night and now it reminds me if you lol! 😂 I’ll try to remember to take a photo of one of my salads.


@Cuddlebear 😂 Yes!! Haha I love that you think of me now when you have Greek Salad! I had one the other day too actually, but it is a Turkish restaurant, so of course they call it a 'Turkish Salad" lol. But.. they also put lettuce / leafy greens in it... Now, I haven't been to Greece or know any other Greek-heritage people, so you get to be my authority rather than google now lol -- but Greek salads and lettuce... what is the deal?! I grew up that they did NOT have lettuce (which is why I like them lol), but a number of restaurants (non-Greek ones I will admit) add lettuce to them? Is this normal??


@Cuddlebear wrote:

My brain is jelly and I’m a bit like that little cute fish in Finding Nemo where I totally forget in a second what I said I would do …


I love that description, and it reminds me a lot of how I felt when I had my anxiety-reaction a bit over year ago. And hey, most of the time it doesn't matter if we forget right - so long as we note down the important ones (and/or set alarms) so that we do the most important ones right? (for me, that is appointments & anything for safety like turning off a stove haha).


@Cuddlebear wrote:

What’s the book called you’ve been reading/listening to? It’s hard sometimes to know whether it’s autism or mental health stuff or both. Many over lapping characteristics too. I tend to do a lot of research into stuff and then explain it all to people so they can see what I mean. If I am unfamiliar I ask a lot of questions lol! I like to understand how people piece their views together. I tend to ask a lot of questions to understand a person better.

Im glad you’ve got a decent counsellor. That is one very important thing and very hard to find. Also that they have up to date knowledge because I do and it frustrates me when they are not up to date with best evidence based practice.

My days are hard but I’m persevering. Trying to find a way to access some quality therapy and support. I also got a new job which I started this week. It’s a research role. Can’t say too much as it is unique and easy to identify. It is short term and working from home except for when I’m doing the qualitative interviews. 🙂 I’m hoping it will help my mental health a little. Give me some people contact and get my brain working on science rather than how I’m feeling.


Yes, I think it would be good to talk to someone about it once I had read the book, done some more research specifically on autism & SI, and gathered my thoughts down coherantly.

The book is https://www.amazon.com.au/Autistics-Guide-Self-Discovery-Flourishing-Neurodivergent/dp/1608689980

"Autistic's Guide to Self-Discovery, The: Flourishing as a Neurodivergent Adult"

I like that the author also does mention that some cPTSD symptoms can overlap with autism, and that if managing those symptoms in the same way as it would be for autism helps, then that's great - welcome! but if it doesn't and there is a different way that works better for you, then that is also great and do that instead. I thought this accepting approach and recognising that regardless of the cause these symptoms can have similar affects and challenges in life.


@Cuddlebear wrote:

My days are hard but I’m persevering. Trying to find a way to access some quality therapy and support. I also got a new job which I started this week. It’s a research role. Can’t say too much as it is unique and easy to identify. It is short term and working from home except for when I’m doing the qualitative interviews. 🙂 I’m hoping it will help my mental health a little. Give me some people contact and get my brain working on science rather than how I’m feeling.


Oh wow, a new job?? Congrats! I hope that is also a really good thing on multiple fronts - meaning & purpose, contribution, recognition of your intelligence and skills, a good distraction during the day, and some social contact (via online) with coworkers/interviewees. Ahh I am so excited for you! (well, as much as I feel excited about anything that is lol but my heart skips a beat when reading it - so it counts lol)

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@MissGremlin *insert support button* Thank you 😍 feeling the care.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

I don't need anyone to respond. I just need to vent, to have a voice, to get it out.

Last night listening to people complaining about poor experiences with support workers and agencies, gov centres, etc. And i agree there are soo many problems and sometimes a support worker may not be suitable or understand your needs and that is not good -- i am not saying that doesnt happen, and im not saying its ok that it happens, its not ok and it needs to be addressed when people raise it. But people just blaming the frontline workers and especially saying that *all* of them are like that and that theyre bad people if theyre working in those roles --- that is upsetting to me. I know it may be these people havent experienced a good worker yet. I dont discount their experiences. But not everyone is like that. And saying they are can also be harmful. I know many who have worked in those roles that DO care, that DO go the extra mile. They dont get recognition from their workplace, and sometimes the client they have done this for may not even be appreciative. But they know they gave care and support when someone needed it, they know they did they right and humane thing, and thats enough for them. The people saying that *all* who work in those organisations/roles are (various words for) bad people -- they dont even know if the other people they are speaking to may work or have worked in those roles.

Then this morning, talking to someone else who is complaining that their ndis funds have been cut. And that they used to be able to use these support funds to pay for costs like petrol to care for their elderly parent.

(Topic started because they asked if i am still off work, until when, do i have ndis yet ,etc. Yes they know difference between ndis and dsp.)

I dont know how/why their plan manager justified paying for petrol to take a parent places (they care for their parent, not the other way around). They dont seem to understand my question about how they got that into plans until recently - they just repeat "because centrelink wont pay me a carers payment, and they wont accept her into the aged care supports. So my ndis pays for it".

For some reason this frustration and annoyance has really triggered me off. Im annoyed that people who need more support cant access it. Im annoyed that some people use ndis funding for things not related to their disability (i also know someone who used theirs for a holiday). Im annoyed that its sp hard for people to get the support they need. And im annoyed that people just blame all the frontline workers as being soulless, rather than just the ones that behave that way.

Content/trigger warning
Im annoyed that we arent allowed to choose whether to live. Im annoyed that VAD is only allowed for certain/terminal illness. Im annoyed that if anyone else wants to die they will be actively prevented/detained. But also at the same time the government wont/cant provide healthcare, supports or fincance to enable that person to live in a way that will prevent them from wanting to die. It feels unfair to have it both ways

Yes i am safe. I am just annoyed. I am waiting till either i calm down or the local safe haven open.

Venting helps.

@moderator sorry. I know this needs trigger warnings. I am on a mobile phone so i cant. Please do so as needed, and much appreciated.

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Hey @AlwaysMyself I've added that TW for you.

Hearing your frustration at the system and the lack of agency it allows, and I'm glad that venting here helps. How are you feeling now?

In response to: Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Thank you @Ru-bee . Messaged someone i know that was happy to listen which has helped also. Still struggling with the "fairness" issue in the trigger section. But waiting somewhere nearby to where the drop-in centre is so that if things dont feel a bit better in an hour i can go there (that is when they open).

In response to: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

Re: TW: The 'real' me inside - I come with an SI warning

@AlwaysMyself I hear and understand your vent. Understand possibly more than you might realise

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