Struggling to be

I am aware of the patronising aspect that helping cultures can contain. It is a problem and I am a sometimes goody 2 shooos helper from way back, but I am here FOR ME and am trying to teeeach other helpers (mods and shrinks included) that they need to dig deeper if they reealy want to genuinely help.

Just found my inner child last week, letting go my inner teenage boy, and am embracing my cranky old lady, which I admit contains a little vinegar, but to which I am adding the teeeniest dash of sweetness in order to ferment in just the right kind of non-virtual self individuation.

My gay ex-uncle taught me to cook. Just made big cook up of his authentic Italian/Californian hippy version of spag bol, but added a green chili and some legumes. (lots for the freezer too.) He also stressed making a recipe one's own, had a MA in psych and lit helped me with HSC and buying a bicycle ..... and he is the one I am distressed about suffering from 35 years med side effects. But him and I would both agree meds were a necessity .. I just KNOW it is very important that legal drug pushers keep patients well informed.

So glad you are back. @Aonaran Space Odyssey was a big hit with all the druggies when I was young but I never had cash for movies so didnt know what all the fuss was about til decades later. But your explanation and choice of proto man with tools is spot on for this gadgety age. I just reread Golding's "Inheritors"and love anthropology, ethology and Bonobos.

Hey @PeppiPatty

You know how I hang out in sometimes snooty classical music circles. Well I grudgingly decided to lift my dressing up game and can almost pass for a genuinely middle class middle-aged lady. But I tell people who give me those little compliments .... that I strictly include an opshop or "free" item in my outfit repertoire to keep me grounded .. it is a proud and disciplined part of my new personal style.

Hi @Aonaran,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and explanation of your avatar.

I just want to quickly let you know that I have read your post, but haven't yet had a chance to respond tonight. Very briefly though, what I meant about boundaries, wasn't about needing to tip-toe around your or tolerate you.

I will write more tomorrow that will explain what I meant.

Sorry, I'd like to write you a more detailed response, but time flew has flown tonight, and I've found myself short of time.

Speak soon,

CherryBomb

Heya @Aonaran,

Hope this post finds you well. Last night was so super busy here on the Forums, so I was quite exhausted by the end of the night. I wanted to write a response to your post when I had more energy so I thoughtfully write a response to you.

My reference to boundaries was not to suggest that I need to dance or tip-toe around you. I guess what I was trying to say is that I think I have a clearer understanding of how certain behaviours (i.e., being told who you are and by doing this assuming that I know what is best for you) can impact on you. So I would like to be mindful of that. To me, that's a boundary – having some awareness (though weary of being naïve to assume that I am fully aware) of the consequences that certain behaviours has on someone, and being conscious of that in my interactions with that person. In my perspective, it's not dancing around someone, but part of getting to know someone and developing a sense of safety.

In my own experience, the utterances of 'you should...' or 'you must' can be pretty frustrating, particularly when I just want people to hear me out. I find that a lot people have a tendency to want to go into solution mode to help and attempt to give advice based on their own experiences or opinion. They assume that what worked for them will work for me or that they know better. In doing this, their help can reflect an assumptions that I am in fact helpless. But in the end, I think that it comes from a place of concern so reminding myself of this appeases my frustrations. In the end, I think some people have different styles of ‘helping’, some people tell others what to do, and others are better at reflecting, listening, and digging deeper. For a lot of people, however, I think they have a natural tendency to give solutions. Perhaps it’s because they don’t like sitting in someone else’s discomfort, or perhaps what they have had a beneficial experience with something and they truly want to share these benefits with others. I don’t know for sure but for me, it means that I will seek out particular people who offer what I think might be helfpful. I share this with you not to suggest that I am right, or that my way is best. Just sharing my experience of things, which I understand may differ to people on here.

I’ve not seen Space Odyssey, but thank you for explaining to me what your avatar means. You mentioned one thing that stood out for me:

“The image in my avatar is the moment where the proto-human ape first learns how to use tools, and the entire universe is suddenly, incredibly open to him. I crave those moments -- and I've had a fair few of them, I'm fortunate to say -- where something clicks into place, and the world suddenly looks new and different and exciting again, and so that image represents that aspect of me.”

Can I enquire about some of those moments when things have fallen into place? What was going on in your life? I'm curious to know about what the world was like when things felt new and exciting for you. I hope that one day you can find this again.

Anyway, I have rambled enough for now.

Speak soon,

CB

Hi there,

I am new here myself and can very much relate to your words. I also have made bad choices due to anxiety and depression and worst of all was devastated by immense feelings if SHAME> only since i came down with a severe illnes in the past two months i was able to reflect how I have been so self critical, pushing myself to the limits to keep working when I could barely function.

I know how difficult it is to trust others, but I really understand now that I need support. Maybe for yourself,just by posting on the forums and interacting with others you may find some comfort.

Sending you best wishes..I feel for you and hope you find someone you can reach out to. We are all on here because of our suffering. take care

Dear @@CherryBomb

Keep on rambling, keep on rambling......cool message.....

Im having difficulty taking messages in. Could you bear with me while I work my focus out with your lovely message.

I read your comment on what people do with advise.

Reflective, listening, advice. Was one

Tell others what to do.

Give solutions.

Share.

You like to give support, by sharing your experience.

Am I right @CherryBomb? My focus is trying to stay here. Just to let you know, this is why I love beig with my nusband. He is certainly strange and unusual and supportive in strange situations. Its extremely easy for me to yell at him and ignore his support but ......I dont.

I just need to comment more on your message. It feels like clever @Aonaran is one of these rare souls who silently asks for um....is it.....silence back? Does this feel right. Its like an unspoken exciting silence where your knowledge just gets bigger.

Like his fav. Film....

So, are you bearing with m@CherryBomb. Im pretty outspoken about me being a very proud consumer. I make many mistakes though.

It feels like to me, many squillions of people dont even listen to problems but on their own agenda. Their hurried advice is so self involved, i am so there that @Aenoran is lonely. They have no idea how the person who wants to relieve their soul keeps on walking down teir street the person feels like a blind moth beating their wings on a lowered light hanging onto a lamp.

They just don't get it.

Nor do they get that other people shut doors in their face. Oh, you look fine. Your well fed. You choose to wear a beard. You have somewhere to live. Im too busy for you.

What do you think @CherryBomb do I make sense or again.....am I writing only my truth?

Hello Dear @PeppiPatty Anne

Good to read your words.

You sound like you have a lot going on for you right now. I hope the waves are only breaking at your prow, and not over your deck. 🙂

In answer to your thoughtful suggestion, no, it's not silence that I'm craving. I actually appreciate hearing responses, but I really want to know I'm being talked to, not at. I know that's something not everyone can achieve, and @CherryBomb was right to say it. (And yep, I realise it's something I'm very sensitised to, but it's not without reason.) But I'm really reaching out for people to come close so we can snort each others' breath, so to speak. It's no mistake that the book that first got me interested in Jungian personality types was called "Please Understand Me".

(Oh, before I forget: thank you for mentioning the book you're reading; I haven't read it, and I know almost precisely nothing about bipolar minds, so there's a lot that's new to me.)

But the reason I'm not a rapid-responder when it comes to posts is that I spend a lot of my time these days -- perhaps even the majority of my time -- in a non-verbal space. I read posts, here and on the Internet generally (I like talking about books and movies too), and I usually have to take them away in my thoughts and sit with them for a while (even days) before I have the first idea of how to respond. In face-to-face conversations, I'm a Master of Realising Hours Later What I Should Have Said. (Hmmm, no, not a "Master" -- even hours later, my responses are too often ineluctably lame.)

Ever hear of myotonia? I first came across the term myotonic goat, a particular breed of goat with reflexes that in response to a fright overload its nerves, immobilising its muscle response and often making it faint and keel over. People herding animals like sheep in some regions keep one of these goats with the herd, so that if a predator like a wolf attacks, the goat keels over and gets picked off while the more valued herd animals get away. Humans can be myotonic as well, and I realised I am. (It's since been confirmed by a doctor.) It's why I've always been completely crap at sports (except, of all things, tenpin bowling, where I even won a state championship! And yes, the sound you now hear is me beating my chest!) because, although my reflexes are quick, what they do is make me sieze up in a "startle" response. And yet I can (could!) dance, and even worked in professional musical theatre. (A former life.) But I can't play video games, another thing I always longed to be good at, because by the time I get past the startle response I've already been blasted back to Level One.

The pattern fits for my thoughts and verbal responses as well, particularly (I suspect) as a consequence of the compound trauma. I have a mental startle response, especially in moments of conflict, get stuck for words and get overwhelmed by something like shame (not least because I feel I've done myself out of the very sense of connection I was hoping for, and because I get that "here we go again" sense of resignation). It's taken me a lot of my life to understand, but now that I do, it's easier; it helps defuse the shame.

Woof. Longer than I intended. Tha mi duilich. ("I'm sorry", but literally "I am troublesome".)

tl;dr: Thanks for being friendly, Anne, and please bear with me. [sad smile]

Kind regards,

Aonaran.

p.s. Just my point of view, but to me there's no strong distinction in "only my truth". 🙂 What's true to you is what's true to you, and someone else (even everyone else) not grasping it doesn't make it not true for you. That's my perspective, anyway, and it's behind the horror I've expressed here of the Helping Professions trying to forcibly impose their realities on individuals. We can all go astray in our thoughts, and see things through our own filters that hide some things from us, but I feel passionately that our realities shouldn't be given a blanket invalidation, because the "Professionals" have their filters too. The path towards "reality" has to be a respectful negotiation, I feel.