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How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

JlolSenior Contributor21 Aug 2023, 11:33 am AEST

How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

Just to clear anything up, no I'm not s***idal. But I have been in the past.

Whenever I've talked about it with a partner or close friend one of 2 things happen:

1. They get weirded out and avoid you.

2. They panic and get extraordinarily stressed.

If I talk about it with a professional they either:

1. Call the emergency services on you and you get locked up (first time this happened the therapist suddenly jumped up mid-conversation and said she had to move her car to avoid a parking ticket - it was a lie. She went out and called emergency services).

2. End the sessions, saying the problem is too big for them.

I know we are all told to talk about this (I mean, R U OK Day is coming up and everything), but how do you actually do it openly, clearly and in a more "relaxed" manner without adverse consequences, or fear of adverse consequences?

14 replies

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In response to: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

SnowieSenior Contributor21 Aug 2023, 2:01 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

Hi @Jlol

This is a really hard topic. Not to talk about "S", but if we do talk about it, what are the consequences.

I know our supports have a duty of care to make sure that we are safe, but at the same time you need these people for you to talk to about it.

More then once I have had people come to my home to do a 'check in' on me. Also have been forced into hospital stays so I get it. When these things happen, I believe it is harder to then talk about it without the repercussions. I think it also makes us hesitant about reaching out for help.

For me it was finding a psych that I could talk to about my thoughts without the consequences attached. I need to know that I can trust them entirely. I need to know that when I talk about my thoughts and plans, that most of the time they know I am just venting. There have been times that my psych insists I check in with them daily, or else they do say they will ring someone.

It certainly is a fine line @Jlol.

I'm not sure if I answered your question or not, but I do agree with you. I hold back lots so I don't have to deal with the repercussions. I understand totally where you are coming from.

In response to: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

chibamSenior Contributor21 Aug 2023, 4:46 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

@Jlol I think that it will be all but impossible to have an open conversation about "s", so long as it is effectively forbidden to be "s".

Because when you are dealing with a culture that aspires to abolish something, open discussion is not a useful tool towards that aspiration. Open discussion creates the possibility that people's commitment to the cause might be undermined; that a different point of view might be recognized and begin to take root within the community. All mutinies begin with a single voice questioning the captain's wisdom.

I share your frustrations with the impossibility of talking about "s", because until we can freely talk about it, we'' never be able to build roads to the places that are better then "s". Before you can get the traffic ministry to build a 200 mile detour around a massive lake, you first have to get them to admit that the lake exists, and that the detour is therefore necessary.

So it is with "s", too. If you need help to get to a worthwhile life, you first need to be able to compellingly demonstrate to others how your currant course is less desirable than "s" - or, how "s" is currantly the best choice available to you. That's impossible in a society that refuses to acknowledge that there can be any fate worse then "s"; a society that refuses to allow anybody to even present a case that argues that there is a fate worse then "s".

We can't summon help to build the detour we need, because it is forbidden to acknowledge that the lake exists.

And the mind-boggling irony is that the very people who staunchly maintain these rigid restrictions on what we are aloud to say are apparently mystified as to why so many people end up driving in to the lake.

In response to: Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

EternalFlowerSenior Contributor21 Aug 2023, 6:29 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

I have stopped talking about it entirely because the worst outcome for me is ....awkward silence.

People are silent and weird.

My dr is so weird. I tell him and he just looks at me. I have learnt to block myself off from a huge chunk of my reality because I accept it is unpalatable.

I have constant s.i. and I speak about it only to Lifeline.

I don't know...I think it takes an open heart to sit with someone suicidal and that it is too much for a lot of people. I think sharing is brave.

In response to: Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

SnowieSenior Contributor21 Aug 2023, 6:39 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

Hi @EternalFlower

I agree, people take it very indifferent. I think the majority of people don't know how to respond.

I just keep my SI to myself mostly.

I'm glad you have at least Lifeline to talk to.

In response to: Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

chibamSenior Contributor21 Aug 2023, 7:59 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

@EternalFlower wrote:
I have stopped talking about it entirely because the worst outcome for me is ....awkward silence.
People are silent and weird.

My dr is so weird. I tell him and he just looks at me. I have learnt to block myself off from a huge chunk of my reality because I accept it is unpalatable.

I've had similar experiances.

First time I ever brought it up, I got yelled at for doing so. After that, I barely ever mentioned it again until I found some "s"-friendly environments online.

Last year, I had a bit of a blowup and I openly blurted out that I want to die to my family. They acted mystified at first; then within hours, it was like I hadn't said anything at all, and that's the way it's been ever since. Certain conversations have come and gone as if their talking to someone who plans/wants to live a long life, when I've explicitly told them the opposite.

I never intended to go there, and I regret doing so. It accomplishes nothing; except to demonstrate that we are unable to have productive conversations, because the other side simply aren't interested in having them.

In response to: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

florencefiftySenior Contributor21 Aug 2023, 8:00 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

I would say it really helps to lay out expectations with your therapist. I would do exactly the same thing you did, talk about how it’s hard to talk about and why. If you’re someone who would potentially blurt out that you’re going to take your own life in frustration at something else, then I would mention that and ask them to ask a few more questions to determine whether you are actually in a crisis and whether you recognise it.

For what it’s worth, the experience you had with the therapist that went out to move her car and called the Police is not representative of the experiences I have had. That’s a poor reflection of them. They have to be much more prepared than that. The closest I ever came to suicide, my counsellor kept the session going for about half an hour to an hour longer than scheduled to ask me more questions about whether I had plans/means/intentions and then said “I might have to get the mental health team to give you a call”. In the end, she didn’t, I made a commitment to stay safe until the next time I see my counsellor.

In response to: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

NatureLoverSenior Contributor22 Aug 2023, 6:03 am AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

@Jlol I think we have to choose carefully who we disclose SI (suicidal ideation) to. Most people in the general public can't handle it or don't know how to handle it.

I remember when I was young and very desperate once disclosing SI to someone, a mentor. She flapped her hand and laughed and said, "Don't be silly!" That left lasting damage.

I think we can suss people out by disclosing lesser things than SI, like maybe SH (self harm) or a wish to escape the current lifestyle, and seeing that person's reaction.

Also, I think people who are more highly emotionally intelligent and empathic will cope better with a disclosure of SI.

(Not talking about professionals here)

In response to: Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

Unknown userMember22 Aug 2023, 5:38 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

@Jlol @NatureLover I have found similar when thinking about even mentioning SI to anyone outside these forums.

one person in my life I can talk with about most things.

this person talks about impact on the family following attempted suicide by a child few years ago. When I have mentioned general mental health issues this person quick bought the conversation to an end and I left fairly quickly as atmosphere between us was unpleasant.

I have recently started seeing a therapist who in first session told me if I had SI she would need to report it to third party. This has now left me feeling very uneasy and uncomfortable with thought of asking for help with SI that will allow me to deal with them and feel safer at home. To me, feels like no win situation. Maybe if I had been seeing the therapist for longer and felt I could trust her to have the discussion with me without reporting me

In response to: Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

chibamSenior Contributor22 Aug 2023, 7:52 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

@florencefifty wrote:
The closest I ever came to suicide, my counsellor kept the session going for about half an hour to an hour longer than scheduled to ask me more questions about whether I had plans/means/intentions and then said “I might have to get the mental health team to give you a call”. In the end, she didn’t, I made a commitment to stay safe until the next time I see my counsellor.

@Former-Member wrote:
I have recently started seeing a therapist who in first session told me if I had SI she would need to report it to third party. This has now left me feeling very uneasy and uncomfortable with thought of asking for help with SI that will allow me to deal with them and feel safer at home. To me, feels like no win situation. Maybe if I had been seeing the therapist for longer and felt I could trust her to have the discussion with me without reporting me

Revelations like this make me feel as if the system's become more militant about suicide prevention since the end of my treatment, not less. And it was pretty damned restrictive when I was in there. The only reason I'm still here is because I was psychologically restrained from doing "s", not because I want to survive. Yet all the media spiel we get about the mental health system these days paints it as an entity that is more accepting, open-minded, and respectful of patients' viewpoints than it was 10 years ago or so. Less militantly dictating mandatory survival upon patients, less coersion, less restraint (in all it's forms), and more catering to their self-stated needs and desires.

Which also makes me wonder: if we are need a therapist who is okay with "s", is there some way we can make sure we get one? Perhaps even a therapist who is currantly "s"-idal? Because, personally, I would never be able to trust a therapist who isn't willing to admit that "s" is often a legitimate option. I'd need a therapist who would be very respectful and accepting of my decision to go down this road, if we determined there were no better options available.

In response to: Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

AppleblossomSenior Contributor22 Aug 2023, 10:17 pm AEST

Re: How are we meant to talk about the 's' word?

@Jlol Hearing you about the need to keep the conversations about suicide open. I have worked carefully and hard to keep the topic open on this site and I respect most of the limitations on here as it is open to a general audience and we do not want to be suggestive or encourage it.

I inadvertently expressed myself suddenly about my own urges to a support co-ordinator recently, and she did not over react, which I really appreciated. She told me to feed it back to the counsellor I was having trouble with. I have noted my diary to do it.

@Former-Member

"I have recently started seeing a therapist who in first session told me if I had SI she would need to report it to third party." I am shocked that the therapist did not even try and differentiate between ... active and passive suicidal ideation and gradations of risk.

@NatureLover

Yes, a lot does depend on the level of relationship and the qualities in the individual.

It is a risk, and there is a different duty of care with MH professionals. They are supposed to be the places to be able to have the rapport and respect to be open about it not to have it truncated before a therapuetic relationship can develop.

@EternalFlower How has it been talking about it with Lifeline. Better than the doctor??

@florencefifty @chibam @Snowie

I guess it is never far from my mind but I am getting used to it. However the first time a gp was offhand in telling me I had passive SI was very distressing and dismissive. That was around the time I came on this site. I felt it was more im portant to find a tribe than to deal with professionals, tho that is a part of my life.

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