Coping with normal people

@Willy hi Willy i have schizoaffective disorder. everyone in my close circle knows. i like to explain me not working and my quirky ways to aquaintances after knowing them awhile and feeling safe to do so. horses for courses.

Hey @Willy and @Bunniekins

We are all different, arent we, but there is a place for stats. The stat of 1 in 5 people have struggled with mental health issues, has helped me defend myself and my family a little, even only within my own mind, as there is no point arguing that point if it is not wanted.

I do not really have a close circle, and have not had great luck even with cautious disclosures. Sometimes an aspect comes out without forethought, cos family mental health issues have influenced so much of my life, since early childhood.

I am embarking on a "get more social project", and my intention is not to blab too much, but stuff comes out. I get the desire for being authentic. My self censorship has only arisen due to the poor reception my disclosures have received.

I am learning to read between the lines more socially. I am learning to be more assertive.

Yet the realities in my family are not just a bit of anxiety or depression, but serious issues with far reaching consequences, so it is hard.

I really loved it when I discovered the aspie community's language or neurotypical or normies ... lol. Have struggled with this stuff since I was 12, and got bullied at school when I disclosed about my father, who had died, it was probably the first time I mentioned him, but not a good outcome.

I am neurodiverse enough ..lol ..to analyse what others do in socialising

I am pretty sure I do not disclose for sympathy, tho that has been said to me. More I just want basic respect, or to be able to be me, and simply say what is on the top of my head without having to go through a lot of stress, weighing the risks, before I speak. In fact I am getting to the point of being cranky about the 'needing sympathy line', as I am usually empathetic to others. I have also worked incredibly hard in a range of ways, and figure NOW, I do deserve respect, even if I am not getting it. So I am keeping some thoughts to myself when I interact with others, and not buying into the "normal" concept, but more quietly thinking about trauma loads, privilege, and values and genuineness, and good natured fun.

Sorry you had a run in with mods @Willy hope it recedes into the background and does not stop you having some social time on the forum. I love your thoughtful posts.

@Willy I think it is normal to look for understanding in social relating. Most people seem to be like that. It is the basis of communication. I am learning that the ones that get it, or are 'socially defended' simply had more time together, and opportunity to share and confide in a more private setting

things have improved significantly over the years but it looks like I will never "get better". That struck a cord with me, over the past year or so life has been terrible, but I keep pushing forward knowing people with this illness thrive. Don’t know how but they do @Willy.

and I too have found keeping it to myself helps. People that know treat me different, not all but some, and some are as you said openly hostile even if I haven’t disclosed something to them but they know I’m a bit odd. Though since my medication started to work things have slowly been getting better, but don’t know how long it will keep getting better and what steps I can take to make it so.

but as you said maybe coping strategies or a cure lol. Hopefully the latter that was my way of making a joke.

I remember talking to you before and you saying if you ever need to talk I’m here or something like that. And you were working at that time, is it still so? Just looking for some positivity with regards to this illness, there seems to be some on google if you type in “successful schizophrenics”.

at this stage I’m not looking for sympathy and playing cards as they come, sometimes fail socially but keep pushing on. And as for disclosure I feel anyone with depression or so will probs move on with their life after about 5-10 years. Mum had it and sure she’s a little odd at times but she just pushes on and hardly ever discloses only if they get friendly and have a moment, like a drink or something where you get a little emotional.

I miss the days when I was normal but google it only 5% of the population has nothing wrong with them, the other 95% have an underlying issue and most multiple. Don’t be bummed about having schizophrenia, sure it’s terrible but your still alive right and taking your medication?

I hope to hear back from you and hopefully together we can thrive, apologies for the long response but I hardly get to talk with other so called schizophrenics

@Appleblossom

I get the overall impression both from this and another forum that I frequent these days that disclosure is not a winning game.
Some but not all of my closest friends have been people with psychotic illnesses that I met in physical MH support groups. Even after the groups were closed down we supported each other for many years. Sadly nearly all those people are now gone. There is only one left who lives interstate. We keep in touch mostly by phone and a bit of email.
I think it would be very difficult to ever build those sorts of relationships via this forum because we are all kept at arms length from each other. I only seem to be able to bond closely with people who are psychotic. I feel I can be myself with them and be excepted for who I am even when the relationships get lumpy which they do at times. With norms there is always this uncomfortable tension. Have I said the right thing, done the right thing etc. My partner is a norm and I love her dearly and we get along OK most of the time. It would be hard for me to function without her but there is this distance between us that can never be bridged.

Hey @justcoz @Former-Member @Bunniekins

@Willy

It sounds as if you have had a few great friendships from those mental health groups, and a good stable partner, so have done well considering the burden of experiencing psychosis at times.

People do bond on similarities and things they share, and the experience of psychosis is such a deep and usually pivotal experience, it makes sense that it can be the basis of deep connection, and also separation when it is not shared.

I tend to feel close with people who have experienced psychosis, but am learning not to make that the only reason I connect with people, as that often puts me in a rescuer mode, and I cannot carry that. I probably have experienced psychosis a lot, but not formally diagnosed and mostly flew under the radar, so to speak. I have tried to be admitted to hospital a few times, they never take me. It can be a good thing, but also tends to make me fell I am a nothing person. I am not a normie, cos very little in my life has been normal, but a 'coper', too high functioning for hospitalisation.

Mostly, I am the visitor, the relative of, someone with serious psychosis, and get along with people in the wards I have visited from (1970 to 2020). It has plagued a lot of people in my family. I grew up with the fear of the statistical genetic loading of getting schizophrenia as both parents were diagnosed, and somehow "seem" to have avoided that. The actual diagnoses have shifted from schizophrenia, to BPD and schizoaffective disorder, now the BiPolar illnesses predominate. So in a way MH is an obsession or an 'expertise' that I have ... wry smile. I might have BiPolar mixed state now, who knows, my pdoc is not really sure, but at least he is honest about it. I take the content of the DSMs with a hefty grain of pink rock salt.

I do not have a normal/mad dichotomy in my experience but see continuums everywhere, and diagnosis based on arbitrary lines in the sand. Partly that is cos I did do science early on, maybe aka as retreating into my head, or appreciating the physical world, and being grateful for that. I do have that language and insights to superimpose on all the clinical language thrown around. I do not think I am more or less mad than the people I have loved. We are all just people.

I also have a psychosocial lens from study in the early 1980s, and find it holds true, and is a better approach than pathologising people.

Context matters. Trauma load matters.

They are my current mantras.

Glad you are all here.

Apple

@Former-Member

Hi

You said "I too have found keeping it to myself helps"

That seems to be the general consensus both from people on this forum and another (international) forum that I am active on. The sad truth is that there is still a lot of stigma and ignorance about mental illness.

You said "but don’t know how long it will keep getting better and what steps I can take to make it so."

My conclusion at this point in my life is that a combination of medication, training in life skills (commonly called therapy) and a supportive environment works for many of us but getting the mix right can be tricky. After a lot of study I have come to the conclusion that diagnosis is pretty much meaningless.

I have also come to the conclusion that a good supportive environment is a lot more important than many people think but it can be difficult to obtain. So can decent therapy in Australia.

Of course a lot of support is online now and even more so after Covid. I don't think forums like Sane do a very good job of facilitating supportive relationships. Other online forum/communities I have looked at seem to do a much better job of it.

IMO you have to take matters into your own hands and learn as much as possible about your own condition. I also have a healthy contempt for so called experts and authorities until they prove themselves. There are undoubtedly many very good people out there but there are also a lot who are hopeless. I have come across quite a few psychiatric medical practitioners who are total nut cases. The amount of power that some of these people have and the authority they can exercise over our lives is scary.

If you are into reading, a book I have read and can recommend is "Madness Explained" by Richard Bental. Bental is a professor of clinical psychology at the University of Sheffield in the UK. He is best known for his work in psychosis, especially the psychological processes responsible for delusions and hallucinations. The book is not a light read but imo it is a good one.

You said " I remember talking to you before and you saying if you ever need to talk I’m here or something like that. And you were working at that time, is it still so?"

I retired when I was in my late 50's and I am now 74 but I keep myself occupied with various things. Apart from mental health forums and mental health reform advocacy which is a bit like pushing proverbial shit up hill with a tea strainer, I am interested in music, particularly in jazz. I currently play clarinet in a couple of bands and I recently set up a jazz jammers group that meets monthly. So yes. I guess you could say that I am still "working".

You said " [I] sometimes fail socially but keep pushing on".

Change the "sometimes" to "often" and that is the story of my life too.
You said " I miss the days when I was normal "
I have never really been normal as far back as I can remember. Or to put it another way this is my normal. I was hospitalised for seven months when I was 23 years old but the psychotic behaviour/experiences had been steadily building up for years before that. I have more or less learnt to live with and manage the psychosis. It is all the "norms" - the people who consider themselves normal with their silly and often very destructive games that I struggle with most these days.
It seems bizarre to say this but I find people with so called psychotic illnesses such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, much more sane. I would love to post a joke about this that I saw today on another MH forum but the thought police who patrol this one would go utterly berserk.

You said " I hope to hear back from you and hopefully together we can thrive, apologies for the long response but I hardly get to talk with other so called schizophrenics "

It has taken me a couple of days to get back to you. I marked the email along with some others when I first saw it and I am just slowly working my way through them.

I would like to indulge myself in one last bitch about this forum. The way it is set up doesn't provide a means for people such as us to interact with each other in a natural and effortless way. Responding with lengthy correspondence like this is not only unnaturally disjointed but is too tedious for most people so they wont do it.

Take care

Regards Willy

Dear @Willy ,

I think what you've shared is very important. I really appreciate your honesty.

I'm sorry you feel these forums haven't made it easy for you to facilitate supportive relationships. I'm actually quite interested in hearing what you think would help, or what you've seen in other forums. You are welcome to send an email to feedback@sane.org

(Attn: Forums team).

I acknowledge text-based forums do not work for everyone. Hearing your feedback will definitely help us, moving forward.

Once again, thank you for your honesty.

tyme

@tyme

Here is a link to the You're Not Alone (YNA) online community to get you started. It will give you an idea of the sort of facilities these communities have and use. These communities are very flexible in the the way they can be configured.

YNA is a large community and imo not all that well managed. I don't spend much time there. I am more involved with a much smaller community which is only for people with psychosis and where membership is by invitation.
To me there is a lot more that can and needs to be done with this style of community. Most of these communities are run by young people with mental health issues. The MH problems of some of these people are a bit sus but many appear to be quite genuine. It is hard to fake these experiences with someone who has been a part of the MH community for 50+ years.

IMO this approach is the way of the future and a means of providing the social/psychological component that is desperately missing from the Australian mental health system. Again IMO, I think it will require a cultural quantum shift in organisations like Sane to even be able to see it. I would love for you to prove me wrong about this but I am not holding my breath waiting.

Regards

Willy

https://discord.me/yna