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Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Things have changed a lot since I first started taking notice of the public dialog about mental illness/mental health. In those days, all anyone ever talked about was "mental illness" - specifically referring to something that was causing the brain to not work right.

But since then, there had been much more recognition that the causes of many supposed cases of "mental illness" are actually real world problems, and not some sort of malfunction in the brain. We've even gone so far that many official documents are openly proclaiming that "mental health" and suicide should be handled as completely separate issues now, as quite often, the people who attempt/commit suicide are completely sane.

Few people would deny that the original concept of "mental illness" - that some people are depressed, anxious, suicidal, paranoid, ect. because something has gone wrong in their brains - is at least somewhat true. Many people do suffer in these ways in part or in whole because of some internal problem. But we are starting to recognize that, in many cases, the sufferers brain is not malfunctioning and that it does not need any sort of treatment, because the real problem is elsewhere.

However, this new awareness is often becoming muddied and confusing to a lot of people. I had a conversation just the other day that made me realize we still have a long way to go before we're all on the same page.

I read this SANE factsheet earlier, to try to get some sense of where we are in terms of the official literature these days. And it concerns me a bit that there's only a fleeting mention of real-world problems, that doesn't lead to a more substantial discussion.

When these feelings persist − but don't seem to have a cause that justifies them − and interfere with the ability to lead and enjoy everyday life...

Then it gets even more confusing a little further down, in the section addressing the importance of Support in the Community; as it leans upon one of the most ambiguous and therefore meaningless phrases of our time: "psychosocial disability". There's not even anything close to a consensus about what this terms means. I've seen numerous prominent people explain it in such a way that implies it requires both an actual mental illness (e.g. Schizophrenia) and a significant real-life problems (e.g. chronic unemployment). However, I've also seen prominent people imply that it can exclusively refer to a real-life problem; so if you are being bullied, that alone means you have a "psychosocial disability".

And this ambiguity is really relevant, because it contributes so badly to the mass confusion about whether a person's depression, suicidalness, anxiety, ect. may exclusively be caused by some real-world suffering they are undergoing.

Novices stumbling across that fact sheet looking for information will probably have no way of definitively understanding that jargon. But because of the connotations of that word, "disability", it may prime them to assume that there is some sort of internal fault within the person who is suffering, when that may not be the case at all. That, in turn, might lead them to try to steer the sufferer towards solutions that are geared towards correcting the person (e.g. medication, "talk therapies", ect.), when in fact the only remedy they really ought to be considdering is to eliminate the sufferer's real-life problem.

We are acknowledging that real-life problems are, quite often, the entire essence of a person's distress. But, from my recent observations, we don't seem to be acknowledging it enough, nor with enough clarity and detail. Because there are still a lot of people who seem to be convinced that depression, anxiety, suicidalness, ect. must - to at least some degree - indicate some sort of internal breakdown within the sufferer that needs to be "treated".

Which leads me to another bit of information on this SANE factsheet which, IMHO, is probably quite (unintentionally) misleading. Namely, the subject heading: "You can’t just ‘snap out of’ a mental health issue".

This is certainly true, as is the contents of that entire section of the page. But I'm starting to get the impression that people are misunderstanding the meaning of that phrase. Specifically, I think people are misinterpreting it to mean that there are no straightforward fixes to mental health problems.

No, you can't just "snap out of" being suicidally depressed about being lonely. But you can be rapidly and effectively cured of it by entering into a meaningful new relationship with someone. You can't just "snap out of" your chronic anxiety that your spouse is going to beat you up again. But you can have that anxiety largely (or perhaps entirely) alleviated by being taken out of that violent household; and having safeguards applied to insure you never encounter your abuser again.

Often our grief does have relatively straightforward solutions. But unfortunately, many people have been lead to believe that it doesn't. So instead of taking any interest in actually fixing our problems, they push "mental health" treatments upon us that do nothing to try to fix the real problems. Hence we get nowhere, fast; and our problems persist and typically get worse and worse.

Which brings me to a few of the other common catchphrases that really drives me nuts:

"You shouldn't try to help them.."

"You can't help them..."

"Don't try to 'fix the problem', you should just sit there and listen..."

And I apologize to the forum regulars, because I know I've ranted and raved about this one several times before; but it apparently bears repeating.

Once again, I'm not denying that there's sound reasoning behind these statements, nor am I denying that, in many circumstances, they are really good advice.

But we need to make it clear to the public that there are also a lot of circumstances where this is disastrously bad advice! And that anyone who is getting involved with another person's grief really needs to determine what sort of problem the person is suffering, and whether or not real-life help is called for. Because it often is! Sometimes, you really should do your best to try to fix the suffering person's problem!

Once again, I'm not denying or belittling the experiances of people who really do have mental illnesses; nor the appropriateness of the treatments they engage in. Mental illness is a real thing, and therefore, treatments that are geared towards correcting the brains of the sufferers are valid, in such circumstances.

But we need to acknowledge that serious, long-term bouts of mental suffering via depression, anxiety, sucidalness, or any of a dozen other enduring negative emotions, are often solely caused by some sort of real-life crisis, with no malfunction going on in the brain whatsoever. And that often such cases of distress can be easily and effectively cured, if only someone takes the time to eliminate the real-world problem that's causing it.

Set your lonely single neighbor up with a boyfriend who she is highly compatable with.

Go down to your kid's school and get the staff to shut down the bullies who keep labelling him "fat piggy" all over social media. Make the bullying stop.

Arrange a decent job for your chronically unemployed sister-in-law, that helps her achieve her career goals.

Offer a loan to your financially-struggling coworker; or, if you can't manage that, seek out some way they can get the money they need to tie themselves over.

Help your teammate who's stuck in an unhappy household intergrate into a new, better-fitting household.

Or, if you can't be bothered sticking your neck out for your suffering acquaintance, then don't.

Just don't go making out that their grief is primarily in their head, and that it's their brain that needs to be corrected; or that they just need a professional to browbeat them into "coping" with their distressing lives. Because often the problem is nowhere near their brains. Their brains are perfectly fine.

Fix the life problem and you fix the grief. I can't say it any plainer then that.

That's not an answer for every case of distress; but we need to make it well known that it is the best answer for a great many cases of distress.

Because, from what I've seen recently, there are still far too many people who just cannot look past the brain.

28 replies

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In response to: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

hey @petrichor
sorry to hear that my friend

In response to: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Thank you @Jynx

I think I’m just in a bad headspace at the moment.

In response to: Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Hi @petrichor Hope things improve. Its hard when almost everything can be triggering.

@chibam

Hearing you and agreeing with your impetus to start this thread.

@MDT Glad you are getting more out of social stuff atm.

@Historylover Hey Bella

Ha ha @Jynx but the problem with shortening things is that it is too easy to simplify away a lot of the complexity within each human and all their many circumstances. I can get frustrated by terms like "psychodynamic" and when psychosocial is tossed around. I studied it seriously for a whole year, and have kept that interst alive since the 1980s. We spent 6 months on theory, and just scrapped the surface, and then 6 months on a case study, which was situation in Northern Ireland. There are so many interactions between the person and their society. I also do not like "society" being used as a monolithic conscept, but it is a tendency with using words I guess ...

Exceptionalism can also be a problem, jumping too quickly to the mention of a person who had something similar but was a big success.

Ha ha I just ordered the Body Keeps Sand an interesting book on cultural theory. Have signed up to study in the field again. First time I can approach study with good access to information. Over my time in the life cycle where my main focus is the rearing of family. However, my current family circumstances are still a big reminder that ... mental issues can have huge impact for generations, no matter how hard we try and make good lifestyle choices. History lover ... can also be the 'sins' of the mother! .. Ancestral baggage is a good term.

Just have to keep walking best I can.

Apple

In response to: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Yes, being bullied into mental health treatment is cruelty. Sometimes that type of bullying is usually associated with family businesses or any business. When a family member is suffering from prolonged bullying, or there is no workable outlet. The bullies (in-laws/employers) try to 'help' but it is only a way to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions. Its a sign that they don't know when to stop and there is an escalation. There needs to be a willingness for a resolution or a gift of power. The result is either peace or conflict. Treatment is required for 'suffering'!!!

In response to: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

You're right. A lot of societies attitude around mental health is basically victim-blaming. But we know better. We know, that they know, better to. And they know, that we know, that they know better.

We're going to win. They are us. We are them. We're slowly winning. Believe it.

If you're on "team we" (and you are. All of you.) Then we're winning.

In response to: Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Hey there @Appleblossom. Nice to hear from you. Good to hear that you are all set to begin another cycle of study. I don't know what I'm going to do at the moment. I'm actually feeling rather burnt out. I was going to take a break but am not keen to return to anything. Even reading has to be forced.

Yes, sins of the mother too, and sins of the parents also. God, I have such a love-hate memory of mine. I have to love them because they were good people at their core, but it was balanced out with unforgiveable actions which have cost me everything. Dichotomies seems to haunt me.

How's the hot weather affecting you? Autumn is just around the corner. Time is flying and I'm not having any fun. I hope you are doing well. Sending best wishes.

In response to: Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

That was heartening @wellwellwellnez. Thank you.

In response to: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Hi @Historylover , @MDT , @Jynx , @petrichor , @Appleblossom , @Lucycannon , @wellwellwellnez ! 😊

Thank you all so much for getting involved here! I go away for a little while and by the time I come back, there's so much to respond to that I need to find a decent window of time to do it justice! 😊


@MDT wrote:
"Fix the life problem and you fix the grief. I can't say it any plainer then that."

Yes agreed. So long as we are able to articulate EXACTLY what the life problem is. Once we know it, we can act. I believe in acting too quickly, we can worsen it. Seek to understand why there is an issue then go to the root cause of it.

Quite right. But it's not just about personally understanding what your problem is (for many, that's the easy part), it's about being able to communicate those needs effectively to the people who you need to help you.

There are so many pitfalls to that, and even after trudging through this mess of over 20 years, I am still no closer to figuring out how to do that. I'm even further back then when I started.

You basically need a translation guide to be able to communicate with people with a radically differant mindset, radically differant values & radically priorities - and unfortunately, no such translation guides exist, to my knowledge. You also need to know how to navigate the details, that if known to your "helpers" would immediately upset them and completely turn them off from giving you the help you need. e.g. How do you ask your fundamentally religious family to help relocate you to a town with a robust gay community, because your having difficulty finding a boyfriend where you live now?

IMHO, one of the biggest invisable handicaps in this area is the concept of "that goes without saying"; the assumption that all people must hold some basic, underlying truth to be indisputable, and therefore that all subsequent reasoning and dialog will be based upon that truth.

It's so basic that you don't even believe it needs clarifying, so you don't even bother to mention it. Then, after a very long time, something twigs you to the fact that the people around you hold a completely differant mindset on this highly foundational principal. Likewise, they probably aren't even bothering to communicate with you their "things that go without saying", as they haven't even stopped to think that these things might need to be explicitly spelled out for you.

And even when one or the other side twigs - where do you go from there? How do you prove that the sky is blue to a bunch of people who insist it isn't? The "things that go without saying" are usually so basic, it's impossible to build a rationale to support them, because they simply are self-evidant.

Which leads me in to another pitfall: when "helpers" want to exploit your situation to alter your life to suit their own designs. How do you lock yourself in to a situation, so that the only places other people can send you are the places you want to go? That's an important considderation when it comes to reaching out for help; because so often you are trapped with people who want things from you and are ticked off that you aren't delivering. So, when you turn to them for help, what really happens is that they see that vulnerability as an opportunity for them to correct the things they don't like about your life. So you really need to know, beforehand, how to cripple their ability to exploit you, so that the only possible effect they are able to have upon your life is to help you get exactly what you want.

But how do you do that?

--------

Moving beyond @MDT 's comments, reading through this thread reminded me of another issue that I think needs to be addressed.

There is a fair bit of talk going on these days about grief produced by real-life problems.

But, unfortunately, almost all of this seems to be getting swallowed up in the ongoing debate/discussion about "the trauma-based concept of mental illness" and the "biomedical-based concept of mental illness". And while discussing the "the trauma-based concept of mental illness" is certainly very valid and important, having this subject monopolizing the importance of real-life problems is still problematic, because at the end of the day, we are still just talking about mental illness, and are completely ignoring cases that have nothing whatsoever to do with "mental illness".

By way of example, let's considder three similar scenarios that (I hope) show the distinctions in what I'm talking about. Please forgive my over-simplifying and/or inaccuracies in portraying these issues; I am merely trying to illustrate a point.

1. (Biomedical Mental Illness) Someone who has lived a peaceful, uneventful life develops schizophrenia and suddenly becomes gripped with anxiety and terror, because they (incorrectly) believe that there are people all around them who are trying to kiII them. Nothing has "happened" to the person to make them believe these inaccuracies, their brain has suddenly just been beset by an illness.

2. (Trauma-based Mental Illness) A veteran who has seen some really brutal combat comes home and is discharged into civilian life. As he walks around his peaceful little Australian home town, he is perpetually on edge, (incorrectly) sensing that terrorists are hiding in his blind-spots, preparing to ambush him. Nothing physical has happened to his brain; it is still a perfectly healthy instrument. But he has become so used to remaining ever-alert for an impending attack, and so well-schooled on the dire consequences of letting your guard down in a warzone, that he simply can't turn off his wariness of impending danger, even when he is in an extremely safe environment.

3. (No Mental Illness) A soldier is trapped in a foxhole, in the middle of a warzone. Bullets are flying everywhere; bombs are going off all around him. He is terrified - because his life really is in immense danger. His mind isn't distorting or exaggerating anything; the problem is not "in his head", it's in his situation. He is genuinely in real danger, right here, right now; and needs immediate, real-world help to get out of this crisis.

I've seen some arguments get pretty intense when it comes to discussing "Biomedical Mental Illness" vs. "Trauma-based mental illness". But despite the often stark differances, at the end of the day, all those people are talking about are mental illnesses. Inaccuracies in the brain; defects in the reasoning process.

We are talking about people with some sort of misfire going on in their minds that are leading them to the totally inaccurate and unreasonable conclusions that the taliban have infiltrated their sleepy little Australian town, for the dedicated purpose of stalking this particular individual down and kiIIing them. At the end of the day, we are just talking about people with stuff going on in their heads; with problems that exist solely in peoples heads, and therefore, with solutions that must focus entirely upon peoples' heads.

But in allowing the conversation to be monopolized this way, we end up ignoring group #3; the soldiers who literally are trapped in the foxholes and need immediate real-world rescue.

When we talk about suffering solely in terms of "mental illness" - be it biomedical, or trauma-based - we blind ourselves to the reality of real-world crisises. The soldier who gets on his radio and reports how terrible the conditions are, will likely to only hear the response: "Uh huh... And why do you think you feel like that?" Back at base, there will probably be endless sophisticated dialog about why this guy feels so unhappy about being in the thick of combat - whether it is the loudness of the bombs detonating around him; dehydration from being out in the dessert sun too long, some sort of genetic defect that has given him a bad brain, or perhaps it's because mommy didn't buy him a GI Joe that Xmas he really wanted one.

They'll barely even acknowledge the possibility that, the problem has nothing whatsoever to do with the soldier's head - the problem is entirely in his situation. And that, therefore, the solution to his anguish can entirely be found in correcting his situation.

Because that's the real hazard here, when we ignore real-life problems as the sole factors in peoples' grief; when we get fixated on one form or another of "mental health". We waste time trying to understand the soldier's thoughts & feelings, and trying to alter the way his mind works, when in fact the one and only thing we ought to be saying to him is: "We're sending in the cavalry, son! We're coming in to get you out of that mess!"

And that fixation, I believe, is starting to become a significant problem with the future policies that are being proposed by the government in this realm. Because, while there is increasing acknowledgement about the importance of addressing real-life problems (specifically in the context of reducing "mental illness" and suicides), most new commitments to address real-life problems is packaged under the heading of "support for psychosocial issues".

As I believe I mentioned previously, the term "psychosocial" generally tends to require an actual mental illness to be applied to a situation. So, if you have severe bipolar, and are also homeless, you have a psychosocial problem. If you are deeply traumatized by abuse you endured in childhood, and you are also homeless, you have a psychosocial problem. But if you just happen to be homeless, and your brain works completely fine, you do not have a psychosocial problem; you just have a real-life problem.

So, under currant policy, the government is extremely interested in building homes for the bipolar and traumatized people, but not for the perfectly healthy homeless guy. Once again, the people being stalked by imaginary terrorists get all the sympathy and assistance, while the poor bugger actually stuck in the foxhole is just left to his horrendous fate.

I'm not belittling the importance of supporting the mentally ill, because that's so essential, and the interest we are showing now in giving them all the support they need is absolutely fantastic. We absolutely need to be doing all of this.

What I'm griping about is that non-mentally ill, yet nonetheless suffering people, are being left behind in this policy shift.

Real-life help ought to be adequately available to everyone who has a real-life problem. The question of whether or not they have a mental illness should have no bearing on their ability to get the help they need.

In response to: Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

@chibam, this is such a long post that I am having difficulty responding. Perhaps that's the problem - trying to solve all problems at once.

I don't know exactly what to respond to.

I am going to concentrate on this issue: (Biomedical Mental Illness). I am questioning whether we are talking here about 'paranoia' or 'schizophrenia'. (And that is a major stumbling block - speaking the same language with the same interpretation and word usage). In my opinion, it would be unusual for either to suddenly occur without a buildup of events and experiences which left the individual to draw that conclusion or response. They drew their conclusions and respond to events which are happening to them. Those who disagree are responding to, and drawing comparisons with, situations which occurred to them on an entirely different path.

I don't believe anyone lives a peaceful, uneventful life. I can't see the possibility of that for any of us. Life just isn't like that. Even when it may seem so, events are taking place over which we have no control and the true state of things only manifests itself when a seemingly unexpected event occurs.

In response to: Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Re: Mental Problems vs. Life Problems - There Is Still So Much Confusion

Hey @chibam it's a very long post - not a bad thing because this issue is very complex

You mentioned an example about being gay in a religious family and them not assisting you to move somewhere to find a partner.

I don't mean to intrude but is this experience?

I would love to know more about your experience as to why this is an issue.

In the interests of being open - I will go first.

I actually was first diagnosed in 2013 and got put on medications right away. My gp at the time told me we would "sort this out" and he used to make dirty sex jokes - I don't believe this to be an issue, but a way of demystifying the topic of mental health through humour. It was fine.
But after that I was aware of how medication can assist (this is indicative of the medical biological model) in mental health. It was useful at first. But I did notice that there was a tussle between that as a solution and finding things in life I cared about. So I went back to uni to study and focused on that. I wasn't fully functioning I don't think. I was getting very average results but I noticed that I wanted to do better at uni but I just wasn't.
I have a theory now that I was actually impeded by my health - physical health. I started going to gym and did cardio but I didn't do any weight training. Perhaps this may have assisted. But I did also notice I was making friends and exploring my options socially. I was meeting people who were new and I was introducing myself in person. This was something foreign to me. As I did it i found it easier to do over time. It's a curious old thing hey.

As well as that, my meds changed a few times and I noticed side effects - physiological ones.

Perhaps this is not even related but I guess I wanted to Perhaps throw a real experience into the mix of what you said.

Your point about helpers wanting to exploit is very true. I had that experience from religion. Certain figureheads in the church environment would talk about "certain things" at that age and seek to control the environment through manipulation. The notion that one could be suffering mentally was severely frowned upon. Apparently it meant that I wasn't relying on God. How that operates or works is anyone's guess. Fortunately I know for a fact that many religious communities are more progressive with such things now. But who knows...

I digress.

Perhaps the most important thing can be summed up in the maxim - know thy self
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