👥 BOUNDARIES: Week long discussion 👥

With my 2 adult biological children I have very different boundaries because the relationships look very different at the moment due to circumstances outside of my control, but not because I love them differently.

With my son I have set boundaries about which rooms we can both be settled in but which are also communal, eg his end of the house and my end, with an agreed we will not disturb the other if they are busy doing music or online or exercise or whatever...within reason.

With my daughter I have an opposite position in that "my door will always be open" but I have set a boundary within my self of not grovelling to her. The ball is in her court. In many ways she is in a very strong position atm and does not "need" me as in dependency. The situation is very painful and unfair and has taken me 20 years to "accept", and working on treating myself with dignity even if the girls in the family have been allowed to abuse me and take my love and dedication for granted.

That the situation is so polarised is an indication to me that it is not just about my actions causing it. The lack of respect for the role of motherhood and family still distresses me, but I have to walk on with my head held high.

@cloudcore

Unfortunately I felt that I had no choice and I had to put in a hardcore boundary with my Mum when I found out her complicitness with my CSA and go no contact to stop the thoughts.

Considering what I've been through in life I have never really had any SI until 2019 and I have never SH'd.

But in 2019 when all the traumatising truth came out, it broke my heart and my spirit, and SI came on with such ferocity that I had a plan. I took myself to hospital and was in and out for over 4 months that year.

I fantasised about turning up at Mum's unit and running into her arms, but then my MH would deteriorate just at the mere thought, and I was really scared of having another psychotic break.

I wish there could have been another option, but I had to live. I couldn't put my family through another suicide.

It's hard to cope with the sadness of putting in that boundary. Everyone in my life had let me down, I couldn't do the same and join them. Someone had to say that is not OK, and no one really was.

It's all just really sad.

1. Think about two relationships in your life, and describe the boundaries you have with each one. How are they similar, and how are they different?

- a relationship I had it the past was toxic. I was too attached and felt I could not do anything without the significant other. I was paralysed. I saw her as my 'carer'. Over time, the relationship was over-bearing and both suffered.

- another relationship I currently have are with my work colleagues. I began with setting and communicating clear boundaries so that work issues did not mix with home issues. Despite many times being asked to 'socialise' outside work, I've kept these boundaries so as to maintain professionalism in my workplace. On numerous occasions, I have to explain that I cannot 'go out' and 'socialise' with people who work directly under me. This may seem harsh, but I know it is a way to protect myself.

- i've approached these two relationships in different ways. Having suffered in the past, I have learnt to maintain boundaries so as to protect both parties.

2. What boundaries do you have irrespective of who you have a relationship with?

Irrespective of the relationship, I ensure I am open and honest with clear lines of communication. I've had to learn this through much hard with and professional help - but now I reap the benefits.

3. Additionally, what boundaries remain or change for interactions online?

I spend many hours on the computer each day. Often, emails, messages can get misinterpreted. Hence, I endeavour to speak to people virtually, face-to-face, rather than popping through messages.

In the virtual world, i interact with people the same way as I would, face-to-face e.g. dressing properly, being an active listener, staying focused, supporting others.

@cloudcore

Wow. Such thought provoking questions @cloudcore! They're almost a little challenging, but in the best kind of way! 😊

1. I think the boundaries I have with different people can be slightly different depending on the person and our relationship. With some people, there's a shared understanding between us, while with others, there's a big conversation to establish what we'd both like going forward. While it can be really hard to have this kind of conversation, I have found doing so incredibly beneficial in the long run!
   What stays the same for me is the what I guess you could call 'base boundaries' that are the same for everyone, regardless of who they are or the relationship we share.
2. Those 'base boundaries' include, like a lot of you have mentioned, respect, but mutual respect- a kind of 'I respect you, you respect me' and mutuality in general. I would not ask something of someone that I would not be happy to do if the situation were reversed. For example, I wouldn't ask someone to support me with something if I was not willing to provide that same support. I also have a boundary for myself of not sharing any more than I'm comfortable with
3. For interactions online, the boundaries I've spoken about still remain at the core. I think what changes is that I pay a lot more attention to anonymity. I don't engage with social media, so for me, most of what I do is through Forums such as this one where I'm going under a pseudonym and my interactions remain through whatever site I'm engaging with others on.

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@cloudcore wrote:

Questions for Tuesday 24th of August:

Boundaries can change depending on the situation or the relationship.

1. Think about two relationships in your life, and describe the boundaries you have with each one. How are they similar, and how are they different?

2. What boundaries do you have irrespective of who you have a relationship with?

3. Additionally, what boundaries remain or change for interactions online?

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LOL Wow! I'm starting to wonder if I even belong on this thread.

Questions like these make me realize that I don't really have boundaries, so much as desires about the sort of relationships I wish I had.

"Boundaries" implies that there's crap I wouldn't let you get away with. But the truth is that I let people get away with murder in terms of how they treat me. Calling them out never accomplishes anything - I did it once or twice when I'd had enough of their crap and a little dutch courage to uninhibit me. It just gives them more ammunition to talk you down; which I can understand, TBH. I hate antagonistic people, too; so lashing out was pretty hypocrittical.

I'm starting to wander OT again.

To answer the stated questions, I guess I don't really have any boundaries, with anyone, anywhere.

@chibam

I believed in unconditional acceptance for loved ones. I really struggled with the concept of boundaries as a negative fence erecting divisive way of thinking. It is odd how the language about life changes over the years and differetn ideas come into vogue. I grappled with it a lot a while back and eventually was able to dream up, consider and post my examples.

I am still not completely for them. I prefer values or ethics, but "boundaries" seems to be the word of the moment!

@Corny

Hearing you about complicit mothers.

Mine was.

I never dreamed of her betrayal, it is part of the problem with my own daughter. Life goes on. Each circumstance has its own history and conditions.

1. Think about two relationships in your life, and describe the boundaries you have with each one. How are they similar, and how are they different?

Relationship 1 - My mother

My relationship with my mother was open and honest, gentle and loving, but all too brief. I was an outback kid and headed off to boarding school at 12yo, so the lessons she taught me had to hold up without her by me from there. She gave me space and respect, but was available as a muse, a guide, and a cherished friend as I grew into adulthood away from her most of the time.

Relationship 2 - my ex

Then it was off to the big smoke for uni, which I dropped out of when I met my future husband and we did a business start-up ..... I helped him complete his degree by sourcing reference material for him, editing and proof-reading his assignments and typing them up. My mother was only a phone call away, but her sense and sensibility were already in my heart and mind. What she hadn't prepared me for, because she probably wasn't aware they existed any more than I did, was the little wolf in sheep's clothing ..... the one you don't see coming because they deal in co-revive control, mirroring your thoughts, values, ideas and dreams so you think you have found your soul-mate.

Boundaries ? What boundaries ?? The relationships were similar, to begin with, because I thought it was enough that they loved me and would respect the boundary of what made me me ..... one did, the other one didn't .....

ex was a workaholic, so again the relationship was removed by physical distance most of the time, and I was kept busy managing more than a woman should have to - five children, one disabled, being mother and father, carer, housekeeper, business support, extended family support, managing household extensions, renno's, house move after house move, and all the chaos that is life with an NPD partner that you think is a set of unfortunate occurrences, as we skyrocketed towards business success.

I was not prepared at any level for the Devaluation, Discard and Betrayal that characterise the condition.

2. What boundaries do you have irrespective of who you have a relationship with?

As a result of that crazy roller coaster ride I now have a new set of glasses ..... one lens is still rose-coloured cos there is so much about life I love seeing that way and am not prepared to give up ..... but the other lens is crystal clear. I take a long hard look at relationships, both existing and potential, through that lens, and measure them up against the NPD red-flags list. It is a good way to assess any relationship probably, because while not everyone has NPD obviously, it is an excellent way of dividing your relationships between empathetic reciprocal knees, and ones that are business-like and transactional .... and never the Twain shall be confused again, hopefully.

3. Additionally, what boundaries remain or change for interactions online?

I think remembering to hold reserve and be professional and polite with professional people is a good rule of thumb - remembering that other people's time is valuable, as is yours, so spend it wisely. If you are going to indulge in a lot of time online, do it consciously, with a bit of self-assessment about what it means to you, what the need is that you are responding to, and remember that who you are and what you need matters as much as for the next person. Deal yourself a hand, and mind your cards.

Thank you @Appleblossom , life does go on, but it broke my spirit. Its hard to find words for a heartbreak & betrayal on that scale....

@Faith-and-Hope your ex didn't deserve you. You were too good for him. My fathers NPD made me susceptible to 'transactional people'. I was a function, and it took me years of therapy to see that and try to consciously not attract similar people into my life and keep making the same mistakes over and over. Unfortunately they seem to always find an empath.

Oh gosh, I'm finding these questions hard! Shows I need to do work in this area I guess! 🙂

1. Think about two relationships in your life, and describe the boundaries you have with each one. How are they similar, and how are they different?

One huge boundary is with my emotionally abusive father. I will no longer allow his abuse or constant criticism.
Another boundary is with my nice neighbour/friend. I had to tell her at the end of last year that her rants about her hatred of the government and the Covid restrictions, and her spouting of conspiracy theories, were getting me down.

I guess the boundaries are similar in that they are both to protect my wellbeing, mentally and emotionally. Are the boundaries different? Not sure. I still want a relationship with both of them, but not too close.

2. What boundaries do you have irrespective of who you have a relationship with?

I have a boundary where I won't mock people or agree with others when they call strangers "a fat b!tch" or things like that. I also won't trust or get close to anyone who has refused to have mercy (on me or others). Also, if someone has badly hurt me, I won't trust them again. Umm...not sure what else!

3. Additionally, what boundaries remain or change for interactions online?

I have found myself here on the forums sharing more than I'm comfortable with, mainly to try to please or bless others, e.g. in events like this one! (I'm comfortable sharing what I have today.) I guess this is because it's a public forum. So I need to work on that. I think the other boundaries remain the same? I can see from answering these questions today that my boundaries are about protecting me and others...i.e. very basic boundaries.

Thanks for getting me thinking, @cloudcore 🙂

your posts have highlighted two sets of important values:
- "instrumental" values: like trust, honesty, loyalty and respect; and
- "terminal" values: like fulfilling relationships, education, equality and self love
They are both equally important to consider when creating boundaries!

Wow this is very interesting @cloudcore and it is getting my brain working

1. Think about two relationships in your life, and describe the boundaries you have with each one. How are they similar, and how are they different?

Relationship 1 , my Mum

she has always been here for me , my rock , we have been through soo much together but now it is turning around as I have to become her rock

Relationship 2 -- my step children

always thought "I will just be their friend " , ha ha the boys loved having another mum

but the eldest and the girl (daddy's girl) did not want another mum

2. What boundaries do you have irrespective of who you have a relationship with?
with everything that i have been through already in life I can see that i have grown , I was really a YES person

I ensure I am open and honest with clear lines of communication.--- sometimes still a yes girl but thinking more
3. Additionally, what boundaries remain or change for interactions online?

remembering that other people's time is valuable, as is yours, so spend it wisely. If you are going to indulge in a lot of time online, do it consciously, with a bit of self-assessment about what it means to you, what the need is that you are responding to, and remember that who you are and what you need matters as much as for the next person. --- I love this point @Faith-and-Hope