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Much needed vent.

Much needed vent.

If any individual - a neighbour, for example, asked all the most personal questions a therapist of any stripe did, we would think them highly impertinent - a sticky beak. However we allow therapists to ask us anything, invade our privacy without restraint, and we comply - tell them all of our private business as a matter of course, thinking we are being helped.

It is implied to be part of our treatment and our hoped for recovery to do so - but if their treatments worked, we wouldn't be here on this forum asking each other for support and assistance - often, for years on end. Desperate for help.

In my opinion, we are exploited in a heartless even unconscionably, sadistic way. They are completely devoid of scruples and we are exploited then often, simply moved on. While our conditions worsen and our lives waste.

It seems more likely that they are invading our privacy for the purpose of satisfying their curiosity as to how the 'other half lives'.

They 'diagnose' copiously - making highly questionable - even laughable, lists of disorders to satisfy your curiosity as to what is 'wrong with you', (from me - you are severely traumatised from the conditioning and experiences you have endured which have altered your personality, your perceptions, your social standing, destroyed your family, employability, security etc.), prescribe drugs of one type or another, one dosage or another, suggest barbaric procedures which are, in my opinion, little more than needless experimentation. And we comply - or some of us do - with misplaced, naive trust. But none are cured.

I have made the following observation - that society is made up of winners and losers. In general, winners can't make a wrong move and everything goes their way. We losers can't get a break. We do everything right, do it well, yet nothing ever goes right for us. And no therapist will help us because we are the group which pays their bills. Occasionally a loser wins - and that provides the impetus for we losers to keep trying, but, for us, to no avail.

Helping us would deny them their superiority, their source of reliable income, their place in a system which works - for them. They would become one of us - and that would never do.

So how long have you been 'in treatment'? Can you look back and see what amazing progress you have made? Are you doing other that paying their bills?

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In response to: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

I agree with @LostAngel . @Historylover , you've certainly raised some thought provoking points.

After reading everyone's responses, it seems I'm an outlier. I've been having treatment for my MH for years now, and I've never paid a cent. The only thing I have had to pay for in full is my medication (because I'm not entitled to concessions).

Over my years of treatment, I've had:

- one-of-its-kind specialist treatment for my BPD,

- ongoing psychology (at first weekly, then fortnightly, and now every three weeks),

- a treating team (in the past),

- peer workers (past),

- a psychosocial worker (current),

- mindfulness group therapy (current),

- weekly 2-hr health/fitness sessions (current)

- lengthy rehabilitation centre stays (past)

- a CHANGE program (upcoming - already registered)

I've never paid a dime.

I understand this is certainly not everyone's experience as I can see here.

Answering the second part of the question, @Historylover , have I found treatment helpful? YES - I would otherwise not be around to share my experiences. The public system has done a world of good for me.

Several times I offered to pay for their services, but it was a non-negotiable, NO. Even now, I want to pay for my psychology appointments, but there's no fee involved. On top of all this, I've always held a job and have private health cover (limited). And I DONT have NDIS.

As for something else you mentioned @Historylover , pertaining to the idea that if people had the help they needed, they would not be requiring services such as SANE, I'd like to mention that I use the forums for a slightly different purpose:

I am a survivour of BPD. I've been through hell and back. I've been in the pits of anxiety and depression, yet I've survived it and am frown immensely from my experiences. Of course there are also the 'dip' days, but overall, I'm a new person. I use the forums because I feel I owe it to the world to share my journey.

Ive received more than due care all these years, so it is now time for me to give others hope.

I hope you can see it from my angle too.

BPDSurvivor

@Lost9 @Former-Member @chibam @Shaz51

In response to: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

@Historylover There's a lot of stuff in this thread that covers a broad subject matter and honestly I don't have the energy to comment on all of it right now. But damn, I just had to make mention of this:


@Historylover wrote:

Am I suggesting everybody should know such a cure? Well, yes - I am. Some may say I should not make such statements - but when it is true, it is irresponsible to allow it to not be said.


You can't imagine how liberating it is to hear somebody talking so much sense!

You know what really drives me mad? We have all these PSA organizations like RUOK? geared up to tell the 'normal' members of society how to handle the suicidal & 'mentally ill' members of society; and the essence of those messages is: "Fob them off on to a 'professional' who knows how to handle these people..."

Now, assuming your average citizen is indeed too uninformed to just naturally know how to help the average person in need, why can't these ad campaigns inform the general public directly about what they need to know to directly help the person in need?

I think about this in terms of the random bystander stumbling upon a stranger who is just about to commit suicide. Due to the norms of our society, the bystander automatically assumes that the suicidal person is in error for wanting to die, and feels obligated to convince them not to commit suicide.

But, apparently, they don't know how to do this. And this is where the whole situation becomes absurd as hell for me.

Clearly the bystander, for whatever reasons, has chosen to abstain from suicide - the fact that they are alive to confront the suicidal person proves this. So having made this massive life-defining choice, shouldn't they be able to present a compelling, coherant argument as to why survival is the better choice then death? Shouldn't they be able to present the same compelling reasoning that has decided their own choice to survive - a big, big life decision that has decades of repercussions?

Typically, no they can't!

I. just. cannot. comprehend. that.

How do you make a massive decision - a decision to abstain from suicide - a decision that locks you on a certain course that defines an entire lifespan - and have no rationale behind why you did it? How do you not give that matter one iota of considderaton?

Granted, there are some real ninnies out there who will sign up for the marines, or get swastikas tattooed all over thier faces, or hold up a gas station at gunpoint without any forethought whatsoever; blatantly life-defining choices made irrationally on a whim - yeah, some people actually do that. The vast majority of society looks at people like that with confusion and we shake our heads.

But in much the same vein, you have a vast majority of the population wandering around, having made a whoppingly far-reaching decision to abstain from suicide - and the majority of them have no idea why! And when they meet an actual suicidal person who confronts them about why somebody should choose life over death, they just stare at them, mystified! These supposedly intelligent bystanders have no evidance or rationale whatsoever to back up a decision that they themselves have made, and have been enduring the consequences of for decades!

Talk about conformity gone mad!

But okay, let's look past the fact that the average non-suicidal bystander has no idea whatsoever why a person should choose life over death. Thankfully, organizations like RUOK? have put out tonnes of publicity about how to handle suicidal people. So surely this bystander must've had the rationality of survival explained to them by RUOK?, so that they can pass this information on to the suicidal person! Surely RUOK? must've explained to everybody the compelling and coherant evidance that proves that life is better then death!

Nope! Wrong again! All RUOK? will ever tell you is to steer the suicidal person into the sealed quarantine of the therapists office.

And that is how they cover up the fact that the suicidal person was the sane one all along. Because the dialog that manages them and controls their future behavior is now hidden behind the therapist's door of patient privacy.

To get back to your point - you are absolutely right. Everybody should know how to cure the life of the suffering person. If we are to live in a society full of people who predominantly believe that life should be chosen over death; then pretty much everybody ought to be able to compellingly and coherantly prove that life is the better choice. And for those who can't wrap their heads around the rational themselves, our anti-suicide PSA campaigns ought to explain in plain english why a person ought to believe that being alive is better then being dead.

This should not be some top-secret that only therapists are aloud to know, and are exclusively "qualified" to dispense to the people who need this information! It ought to be free, public knowledge!

And don't get me started on people who go on and on about how: "the only people who ought to be handling the 'mentally ill' and sucidal are the people who have adequate training to handle them..."

Dear god. What hope do we have when we live in a society where it isn't just common instinct to do exactly what a person in need asks you to do for them? Especially if it's your stated job to help them?

Sorry for the insufferably long rant, @Historylover . That got me really fired up.

Damn. Now I have a headache.

In response to: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

Thank you @AussieRecharger. I have been logged off overnight. I am just too upset by not being listened to, understood, and it has been going on for too long. I know what I am saying is correct and being humoured is insulting at best.

More than twins experience telepathy @AussieRecharger - native tribesmen use it because it is a survival skill and one which they have finely honed for that reason. Kindred spirits can experience it. The Ancients knew of it. Jung and Freud acknowledged and researched it. Psychiatrists in general know of it, but whether because of not wanting to stand out from the crowd on this matter, putting their career at risk by acknowledging it, or whether they are all so ego-driven that they don't want to learn from others in their profession who have done the research or even engage in it - I don't know their reasons. It might also be said that they are gaslighting patients who experience it. They are a dishonourable and ignorant bunch in general. I was even reading recently of military forces which have investigated ways of utilizing it but as the individuals tested were not 100% accurate, it was discontinued, I understand. Etc. etc.

I have not actively researched the phenomenon myself. I don't have to. My ex-psychiatrist and I engage in it. It is real. It is not science fiction. It is not strange. In fact, I would say that everyone has experienced it in a simpler form at some stage, but just not recognized it for what it is. It is a real phenomenon of the brain's potential and should be acknowledged and researched. It is thoroughly amazing.

I KNOW it exists. I am just trying to save others who experience it and are said to be 'hearing voices'. What exactly are they experiencing? Malicious telepathy?

I want to know and ALL psychiatrists should too.

Thank you for hearing me. And by the way, I wasn't implying you were humouring me.

In response to: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

Thank you, @chibam. It is always wonderful to hear from you and to be 'heard'. I am very upset at the moment. Speaking truths, but either not being believed, being discounted, being humoured, not being listened to takes its toll on us at times - as you well know.

EDIT: Sorry. I've just had a respectful post pulled to another poster and it has disillusioned me as to the purpose of opening up intelligent dialogue. I have deleted my post to you now and it may take me a while to recover from this. It stifles more than intelligent conversation.

In response to: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

Thank you for your response, @Former-Member.

I must be honest in my replies because to gingerly respond and not speak frankly defeats my purpose.

Forget CoVid19 and its effect on our society as it is not relevant to my post - but while doing so, perhaps consider the responses of those who think that wearing a mask and having to self-isolate is a deprivation of their liberties. And having to consider vaccination is depriving them of their free choice. It speaks volumes for the idiocy and self-serving nature of modern society. I am not referring to societal mental health other than as it stood before this outbreak.

Personally I don't have ANY time for so-called 'mental health professionals' but appraise each on their merits from a learned viewpoint. I have been through it and have seen what is going on from within its inner sanctum.

I don't have to know what other forum users have been diagnosed with. That despite, sometimes ongoing, treatment they are still being medicated and retain symptoms of their original condition - sometimes even more - many years,even decades, on is my most bitter complaint.

How is it that so many are oblivious, indifferent, to the ineffectiveness - nay, destructiveness - of this so-called 'mental health system'? How much has it all cost financially to get this so-called 'mental health system' in such a state? How many lives have been lost, how many conditions have deteriorated, how many families have broken down, how much medication has been consumed, how many needless, damaging procedures have been endured - for nothing, how many have lost employability, how many have been repeatedly hospitalized, how many people are employed because of the ever-increasing need for this placebo of 'care'. To say that this system is a disastrous farce is to greatly understate it. It is horrific in its far-reaching consequences.

If being qualified as a psychiatrist only enables them to dispense ever-increasing, ever-changing dosages of medication without the possibility of cure - WHAT do they learn for all their years of education?

NOTHING it seems. Or perhaps, just the belief that you can't save everybody, from which belief follows that you don't even have to know what you are doing. What does it matter?

In response to: Re: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

Thank you for your response @BPDSurvivor. It is important that contrary opinions are heard.

Re your never having paid a cent. That is not the point. Somebody did. Our ever increasing, ever-ineffective mental health budget did. These people don't work for nothing. Just because the money doesn't come out of your pocket should not blind you to the fact that money was paid. A great deal of money. Do you throw money away without getting a quality product for your outlay? Have you ever considered the cost of all of the treatments you have received, and continue to receive? Ever put a dollar and cent value to it? Then multiply it by the number of people receiving these 'free' treatments and give it due consideration. NOTHING is free.

After my marriage, family and physical health breakdown when I was put on a pension, I didn't pay for my ex-psychiatrist's fees either and I'm sure nor did a great many of his other patients. THAT is my point - or one of many. It is not whether or not you paid for your services, it is whether it cured you of the reason for your consultations.

One-of-a-kind specialist treatment for BPD? How did that go? You say you still have your 'dip days'. That is not cure. Do you - honestly - still take medication as treatment? And for how many years has the health budget been paying for ineffective consultations, medications, treatments for you and for the countless others who think they are getting something for nothing? If you have not been cured - they are ineffective treatments. (I stress I am not advising anyone not to take prescribed medication. I am just saying you should be asking why that is considered to be your treatment when others have been cured, and are symptom and medication free. Medication just blunts symptoms, it does not cure.)

Treatments are to bring CURE. Not just security. I treat the health budget as if the money is coming out of my own pocket. We all should.

In response to: Re: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

@BPDSurvivor I am unable to reply as my response has been pulled. There is no point in opening a discussion to have it pulled when points of view are different.

In response to: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

@Lost9 I have just had a reply to another pulled because it expressed an opinion which was different to the poster - which is exactly what the poster had done to mine. I found it very interesting to have the opportunity to open our minds and discuss this matter but the moderator did not. We should just agree apparently even when it only applies sometimes. Sorry @Lost9. I am lost for words at the moment.

In response to: Re: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

Hi @Historylover,

Sorry this happened.

lost9

In response to: Re: Much needed vent.

Re: Much needed vent.

Hi @Historylover and everyone who has offered their experiences and thoughts in this discussion,

Apologies it has taken us some time to reply, I wanted to make sure that I have a really thoroughly read through all the posts in this discussion to hear and understand what you are saying. I want to start by acknowledging what you have been through is painful, and that the points you are making about your experience of the mental health system are really valid @Historylover - I am truly and genuinely sorry to read through and hear what you have experienced.

You are right, there are lots of big questions here that mental health hasn't yet addressed, and having robust conversations about this are really important. Here on the forums, we all bring different experiences, ideas and perspectives from our personal journeys, and they will look different for every person. It's important we have spaces to share learnings, frustrations and ideas, and our community guidelines are here to ensure that we can do that safely and respectfully in this public online space.

You have mentioned a few blocked posts, and I want to acknowledge the big feelings that can come up when this happens. It's never anyone's intention to breach a guideline and is moreso a challenge of online communication in public spaces- it can be tricky to navigate. I am going to reach out to you via email to see where we can work together to get your posts back online in line with the guidelines so you can still have your thoughts heard.

Just a reminder for everyone posting in this space, robust conversations about experiences are important to be had and we can hold space for differences of opinion here- that's how we grow and learn. It is equally important that we do this in a way that acknowledges and respects difference of ideas and experiences, recognising that we each have something important and valid to add in the peer support space

Hoping we can support you @Historylover and continue to talk about what could be different from that big picture perspective

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