Help. Please.

@Last-Lament @Appleblossom @Historylover had some sleep. Was hoping the drinks would help and I'd manage to sleep through the night. Nope.

@Last-Lament 'll need to reread your message again, probably need to reread all of them when I'm... not uh, so tired... I don't feel drunk anymore, until I sit up. Lying dowm is good. But it's jumping out at me; the not being kind to ourselves thing @Last-Lament and I'm going to think on that. At the moment, my response to thst is, I'm not kind to myself. Not veryoften. I think because if I'm honest, I don't think i deserve it./-far out sorry I can't be bothered correcting typos anymore--i think deep down, i still hate the person i am/-or was. I hate the person ive been and i feel so much regret and anger . I don't feel worthy ofkindness, but i yearn for it feom others. Doesnt make sense really. I did not fare well last night. Getting the emergenct stash of smokes out that i havent touched dince Christmas. And fuckits all i can thik about right now. Ugh. I shouldn't have touched ghem, shouldn't even bave them in yhe shed in yhe first place. Well i guess i dont need to hide them from anyone anymore... my head is aching. I've only mentioned this once before on here and i feel very uncomfortable saying it. Punched myself in thr head last night, lots, hard. My eye is even hurting from it. And the sick oart is it feels good, i feel good that im in pain -physical pain anyway. I try hard not to do this to myself, but iys the lesser of the evils i guess. Like a middle ground between what i really want to b me doing. Like releasing some of the pressure i guess.

think im going to wake up feeling like shit. Glad i ran out of stuff to drink. Glad i managed ri fall asleep.

@Last-Lament how can we treat ourselves with kindness if we don't feel we deserve it? I onow I've changed, and i am a better person now than i was. But being better now hasn't changed that feeling inside. And i guess with my partner leCing i feel like... still not good enough. Reinforces those feelings that I'm not worth anything. Thise times when i was younger, when i needed to be loved snd I wasn't. Thats always there i guess. My partner leavig is bringing all that back up. I'm not really sure anyone has ever loved me.

So very fucked up. Fucked up. Fucked.

I don't know whatvi need to do to make this better. Feels like im sinking. Like ive spent years crawling my way out of this dark tunnel but I've slipped and im falling back into it. My head is screaming on the inside.

@saltandpepper am so sorry to read you're in such a dark place 😞

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@saltandpepper wrote:

I've only mentioned this once before on here and i feel very uncomfortable saying it. Punched myself in thr head last night, lots, hard. My eye is even hurting from it. And the sick oart is it feels good, i feel good that im in pain -physical pain anyway. I try hard not to do this to myself, but iys the lesser of the evils i guess. Like a middle ground between what i really want to b me doing. Like releasing some of the pressure i guess.

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I understand totally that physical pain helps. I agree that it's the lesser of the evils and releases some pressure. I also have never told anyone this, but when I was in my early 20s I used to punch myself in the head as hard as I could, for all the terrible pain and anger I felt about my childhood emotional abuse. The thing is, I feel that those punches have had a long-term effect and are coming back to bite me (I'm nearly 50 now). My thinking is much, much slower and fuzzier than it used to be...with gaps where words should be... This could be the MIs of course...but I suspect the head punching didn't do any good at all. 😞

I also understand the feeling of "not good enough" and "not worth anything", as those were the lifelong messages I got from my father. Years of therapy have helped with both these, but they still pop up when I'm upset. I really hope that you can find some easing of these two nasties. It must be very hard when your partner has left... I'm sending you lots of good wishes for hope and healing, @saltandpepper .

@NatureLover Thanks for dropping in and thanks for sharing with me. I feel relieved knowing I'm not the only one that does this but sorry to know you've been in this place too.

It's hard to know what problem causes what symptom when there are so many different choices, hey? Just mulling over this myself this morning actually.

Yeah those ingrained messages are a bit of a kick in the guys when they pop up like this. It's stuff that I've been dealing with (in therapy too) and at times I honestly think I'm ok and passed it. Then other times, like last night, I'm just fucked up about it. How do you deal with it when those old feelings get triggered by the new ones? Just felt like I was drowning in it all last night. Waking up today, I mean I'm alive, but fuck I kicked my own ass last night. Waking up and the first thing I want to do is drink. Im my head I kkow thats a terrible idea; if I'd stayed away from the alcohol last night I probably wouldn't have been such a wreck. But it's hard when you just want to drown yourself in it and smother those feelings.

Rescheduled for my son to come out today, but, the thought of pretending is just... almost impossible. Pretending to be happy, play, have fun, be a fucki mg responsible parent. I want to cancel, and that's terrible, I know. Terrible for everyone. I know if I cancel I'll get fucked up again tonight and will I manage to claw my way through another night? Part of me doesn't want to. Part of me knows that and I want to do it anyway.

I started writing something down this morning. I'm not sure if I should say this bevause it's probably too difficult to explain properly. But I'll try. I stared writing, I guess a letter; explaininh everything that's going on in my head. No one except my therapist really knows the things I'm writing down. Yeah, this is going to come out bad, but I wanted there to be something for people to make sense of. To know everything that's been eating me alive for years--a life time. That there's reasons and I want people to know how bloody hard I've tried, how much I wanted to survive this. It's a very long "letter" and it's hard to read my writing, but it's there, and maybe it will give comfort to people if anything does happen to me. To know that I do love them, and I love my son so fuckingg mych more than i ever knew i could love someone. But I'm struggling. And I've always been struggling. And injust feel like im at the end of it.

i wasnt thinking clearly last night and wanted to act on impulses which is when i think bad shit can happen. I don't know what I'm thinking to be honest. I'm trying to rationalise what I'm writing is going to help get my head straight, but i know what I'm writinf. I know i shouldnt cancel on my son, i know I shouldn't drink, and i can see where it's all heading. But, I'm not sure i care.. and it feels like the first time in a long time I've run out of steam and i want to guve up.

I feel guilty putting this all out here, and I'm sorry if I was a dickk last night or judt a pain in the ass to deal with. Thank you all for checking in and helping me get through the night @Last-Lament @Appleblossom @Historylover @TideisTurning @NatureLover

@saltandpepper I just popped in quickly to check on you, I'm so sorry that you are having such a difficult time right now, and I, and a lot of others too, can relate to and empathise with, where you are and what your experiences have been that have brought you to this place.

Okay, right now, you might not feel like you deserve to be treated with kindness and caring, BUT do you deserve to be beaten up for your mistakes and missteps? I don't think so, I really don't, even though I cannot know all that you could accuse yourself of. Your poor head!

There are some tricksy little things I've tried to wedge into my thoughts when things get really bad. Maybe some thing similar will help you, even if for a moment. The moments build into more even if they don't last as long as we want them to, but they show us that such a moment can exist for us. Life is really only a series of moments, after all.imo

When those old feelings get triggered by new ones, I can crash, really badly and retreat from the world, mentally beat myself up for not ever having been good enough for anyone, even while I know and have proof of, having been helpful, useful, and productive throughout life. I have some meds I can take to take the edge off the overwhelm of anxiety if I need to. I don't tend to use them much anymore though. I punish myself by doing more physical things, cleaning usually. My health means I have to be careful, can't exercise, can't run, can't ride a bicycle anymore, so I am learning not to do that too energetically now, and it's been hard to find a replacement activity when movement was how I managed the overwhelm in the past.

I've moved onto a different type of behaviour in order to be kinder to myself. (it's taken a long time, didnt' happen overnight)

Maybe try this if you can: Breathe, really breathe, for a moment, feel the air pass your nostrils, let the oxygen get into your lungs and travel around your body. Then breathe out, feeling only the sensation of your breath on your nose and in your body. Hold your hand in front of your nose/ mouth to feel the air if it helps. If you can close your eyes while doing it, imagine you can see the air going in, around, and out of your body.

Yeah, it sounds like bs, I know, but it helps me to refocus on what I want, not what the old, tired, stories I've been told about myself want me to do. Take as long as you can to do this, even if it's only once or twice. When you can get a focus on something else, the old stories have to take a back seat.

One trick for me is to do it in the shower while I'm washing away the filth of the old ideas and abuses of the past. It's taken me 2 years to change a behaviour that had become habit over 30+ years (as a result of an SA), by doing this. Maybe it will hit a chord with you too. I changed from cleaning my teeth after my shower, to cleaning them BEFORE my shower - such a tiny thing, but doing so changed an ingrained behaviour that all the psychs I've seen could not offer any solution to. Yeah, I/ we know why I was doing it, but nothing they said helped me change it. Now, I no longer think about the SA every time I step into a shower cubicle!

I honestly don't know what I must have done to deserve/ experience the treatments/ behaviours exhibited toward me by family and others through out my life, from babyhood even. What I have learned is that it is the inadequacies and intolerances, prejudices and judgements of others expectations that caused some of these things.

I've come back to edit this because it sounds like I'm being critical and judgemental and that is not how I mean it. I mean it as a statement of how each of us is affected by the actions, and inactions, of others, whether done through illwill or ignorance, or simply through inability. Everyone, absolutely everyone is a product of what they have experienced as they have grown and aged, and these things impact on us often without our knowing, let alone our understanding.

You sound intelligent, thoughtful and resourceful SaltandPepper, do you have anyone you can confide in, someone who has been through this and come out the other side?

When my then husband was at his worst, I was encouraged to seek help with AlAnon, and I eventually went. There I learned so much that was really really useful to me to manage the situation in a better way. He would never go to AA but I think it would have been useful back then too. I offer it only as a thought, and it's probably one you may have had yourself anyway. perhaps there's something online that might be useful if inperson won't work for you.

Perhaps I have shared too much, said too much. It's something I can tend to do when I feel others in pain, I try to find ways to help them to help themselves. I hope I have not offended anyone in any way.

I wanted to add that I think writing things down as you've said you've started doing is an excellent thing to do to help clear those thoughts out of your head, once out, they might be able to be worked on in a way that will help you get to where you want to be.

@Last-Lament I didn't interpret anything there as judgemental or critical, relax--But appreciate the care you're putting into your response none the less. To be honest @Last-Lament my brain is feeling a bit fried at the moment, it's taking me a few tries to absorb responses. Still not even really getting there at the moment. But even if it's not sinking in it means the world to me to see a response here. Thank you for taking the time to check in and showing me so much compassion. I'm really sorry you've had to deal with SA... I hope to talk to you about it further when I'm in a better place to listen. I feel for you. Really do. It's not something I talk about, but I have experiences here as well. But yeah, not something I ever talk about. Again, more comfortable listening.

I'm sorry to read your health is getting in the way of your self-care. But glad you've found new ways to cope--none of it sounds like bs to me. anything that helps get us through bad times is definitely not bs.

Yeah, my head does kinda hurt, and my eye, and my nose. not even sure why those are hurting. I just get to this point of frustration at not being able to do anything else, it's a pressure release thing. It sounds counter productive, but somehow helps take the edge off. Though I'm sure there's probably better ways. I guess as someone who has a history of anger issues, I tend to float towards violent/self destructive ways of coping.

Yeah, I mean I could pick up the phone and chat to someone about everything, but I don't want to do that. I don't want to invite anyone into this shit show. Part of me thinks if I bring someone in, they'll push me to get help and do all the things I don't feel like doing right now. I just want to be alone for the moment. Well, not alone, but, not with friends or family I guess.

I'm on my own again tonight. Will try and steer clear of the grog so things don't get as messed up as last night.

P.S to all who advised my calling a helpline, I did that today, it wasn't very helpful. I've called lifeline before, once, it was terrible. This time tried the suicide call back service, the person i spoke to was nice and all, but yeah, not helpful for me right now. I'm not sure what kind of help I need right now. Other times when I've been messed up like this, like last night, I've been able to (wanted to) do what I can to survive and push on through. This time feels different. I don't know how to help that.

Hi @saltandpepper , I'm sorry to hear how tough things are at the moment. It sounds like last night was a real struggle for you. It sounds like you have a lot of strength and have made it through some really difficult times in the past. Please keep using that strength to reach out here and elsewhere.

The Forums aren't a crisis service, but the following are. So please also make use of those if you need to. I understand that talking doesn't always feel like the right thing. I wonder if online chat might be more comfortable for you?

The Samaritans 135 247

Suicide Call Back Service 1300 659 467

Lifeline 131 114 135 247

@saltandpepper I hope you can get some rest tonight and that things feel at least a tiny bit better tomorrow.

@saltandpepper , I'll also send you an email to check in

Pleased to hear you are looking for ways forward to being more stable in your self @saltandpepper. It's really, really difficult, across so many reasons why it's difficult, the sort of stuff that cannot be put into words, eh. Sometimes we need to reach the bottom before we can look up and see a way out of the hole we're in.

So glad you didn't feel anything was meant as criticism, I also meant I don't mean my words to be critical of those we expected to take better care of us, or to love us more than we think they did. MH, experiences at the hands of others, all those things I mentioned affect us in ways we don't always recognise.

Like that thing about cooking the leg of lamb:

Daughter asks her mother 'Why do you cut the tail bone off the leg of lamb when you roast it?'.

Mother says, 'It's what my mother always did.'

So they ask the grandmother, and she says, 'Because it wouldn't fit in the pan otherwise.'

A behaviour, simple as it is, was passed down without understanding the reason behind it, and I find myself wondering about all sorts of things from my past nowadays, as I get even older.

Understandable that you cannot take in all the words and their meanings, and what help you might gain from them, when we are very stressed, we can't absorb information. Keep coming back and reading it over, or take a copy to read bits at your leisure.

I appreciate your kindness about my own stuff too, very much. Feel welcome to chat sometime about other things too, SA , and how it is, or isn't dealt with by authorities/ parents/ friends/ etc, can be so insidious across one's life.

I admit I have given up trying to talk to help lines, lots of reasons why, so I get that you might not want to do that too. Perhaps an anger management help line, if you feel that might fit?

Cool cloths on your head and face should help with some pain maybe. The pressure release thing sounds like you have an understanding of why you do that, so maybe knowing that will help you find another way to release the pressure without resorting to the things you know you would rather not do.

What, if anything, do you do, or would like to do, as a hobby? Got any creative type skills? I ask because skills like crochet, knitting, lace making and weaving are wonderful stress management skills to learn, and, not necessarily very expensive to acquire. Lots of videos and stuff online. They are rabbit holes that can hold one's attention and keep one crawling back into to learn more about too. Lots of men are masters at all of the skills I mentioned too, so it's not a gender based thing.

Look after you.

@Former-Member I'm here, thanks for checking in.. Appreciate it.

@Last-Lament I'm... lost for words. I'm really grateful you've come across my post and shared with me. Such kindness and compassion... Very... nice... thank you. Very much.

I think that might be good, to talk about sometime. To try and talk about. There's a few things feom the past, different people, different times, different situations. It's been on my mind a lot today. Most of what I wrote out this morning had to do with that. Just pouring out of me. All the confusion, frustration... I'm watching a movie tonight, drinking a hot tea which is actually quite comforting. It's an older movie, Sleepers. A good fit for me tonight and everything that's running through my tired and sore head.

Yes, the lamb, the repetition of behaviours we learn from our "caregivers". Yep. Another ugly and dark box I have sitting here staring at me--and a good example of the reasons why I don't feel I deserve kindness. Because I was a lot like them, I didn't learn the things I was meant to, I didn't get the love I needed. I followed right in those footsteps until my son was born. Like a switch flipped I realised the way I'd been treated wasn't normal, and the way I'd been behaving all throughout my life wasn't ok. I think about this a lot too. The mistakes I made, the times when I was so lost and angry, the times when all I knew was anger. Very bad times in life they were.

I had planned to collect some pine slabs today for a shelving project I had in mind. But I haven't ventured out of the house today. Decided perhaps being around the circular saw isn't a great idea right now. But truthfully, I just can't find the joy in any of it at the moment. All the hobbies and interests feel more like chores to me. It's all beyond my capabilities at the moment. Probably missed out on that nice timber though, such a shame.

Thanks again for your kind response @Last-Lament and I'm managing better tonight--thanks to not having any alcohol I suspect. But I'm not going to lie, it's very hard stopping myself