Checking In

Hello @oceangirl

Thank you for responding to my message last night. I can very much understand the feelings of withdrawal from interaction with others in real life and, also, bottling up and cocooning of our feelings when feeling somewhat fragile. The distress that occurs as a result of some experiences and our subsequent efforts to contain the resulting feelings can cause us to feel very drawn and tired.

I am responding today, because I find it difficult to interact with a number of people in a chat environment, all at the same time, such as was the case last night. Even socially, I tend to lean toward 1-to-1 interactions better than in groups. That can all be the case, despite liking all of the other people present. It is also a more continuous and contiguous process to work through and summarise ideas and lead toward a possible direction or even conclusion, when speaking individually.

You're comment, about wishing to be able to open up, but having difficulty doing so, I think, is quite common. That is particularly the case when we feel destabilised, uncertain or threatened in some way. Maybe part of the fight, flight, freeze response. Sort of part of that “freeze” reaction. Another word added to that trio recently was “fawn”. The counsellor, with whom I am speaking, pointed that out as one of my defensive/protective responses/reactions. This response seems to be in effect when we are trying to placate someone else, by whom we may feel threatened, or with whom we may have an unstable relationship. Jess O'Garr, clinical Psychologist of the

ThePSYCHcollective.com

of which she is a co-founder, presents the fawn response as “compliant surrender”, in her video “Understanding Schema Therapy.” Jess O'Garr and her website was recommended to me by a special friend with whom I share ideas on this forum. There is an extensive range of material on the websites, the aim is stated as

“It is our aim to offer actionable resources and teach real skills to help people make meaningful change in managing mental health issues, especially for those who can't access other help.”

The content, I very much hope, will be useful to you also. While initially, the range of material could be bewildering, I believe that the material and the way it is presented is excellent. A site page to start with might be

https://www.thepsychcollective.com/schema-overview

there are also many of their youtube videos covering a comprehensive range of topics.

In a response to @BlueBay you mentioned struggling to cope and the fear of being judged. You mentioned a GP appointment that you felt had not gone well. However, you did not elaborate, at the time, about why you had that feeling. Also you mentioned the frustration of feeling (that you referred to as a fact) of not making any progress. And not thinking that you have the resources to change the feeling of stagnation. Blockages to the ability to remember even the relatively recent events, contributing to the feeling of not being able to structure and articulate your thoughts, in a cohesive way. I can write that because I believe that I can understand, very clearly, how you might be thinking and feeling.

In paraphrasing your observations, using slightly different wording, I am hoping to encourage you to look at your thoughts from another, or variety of directions. You may agree with another way of looking at your thoughts, or may challenge some of these reflections. Either way, I hope it has the effect of stimulating some responses and reactions, either for or against the thoughts, as I have written them.

If someone else tells us that we are “a nobody”, I would consider that person to be poisonous and toxic, with respect to our own feelings and personal development and progress. Invariably, such people use these observations to elevate themselves by denigrating someone else; in this case you. It really shows that they have a rather low estimation of themselves, and use these methods to somehow Improve their view of themselves. They need assistance, but it will not be forthcoming until they can view themselves appropriately, and in proper perspective. It really need not be your role to support them, until they have reached that position. Indeed, you may even delay their progress by continuing to be the foil against which they continue to compare themselves, in their own mind. Such relationships can be very stressful and consequently, delay our own development and progress. It is very difficult to be able to assist others from a position in which we feel vulnerable. The other person can often encourage us to do things that make themselves feel better about what they do, such as poor forms of nutritional intake, in the food that they consume. Their negative presence, for you, is compounded with their attempts to encourage you to do things that they must be aware, would have a significantly negative affect on your health. This may be a conscious or unconscious attempt, on their part, to keep you in a position that supports their view of you, and hence their own self-view. I can understand that the constant having to defend your valid position, would be very draining and tiring. You say that you have seen similar patterns in her relationships with others, that I presume may have similar qualities about them, to her relationship with you. I can also understand why this situation would upset you. It may well be time to withdraw from what appears to be a damaging relationship, in whatever way that you feel appropriate. However, it is hard just “to walk away” until the reasons for doing so, have been as reasonably and as fully considered and established, as possible and resonable, for your own purposes.

I think that one of the issues about “surrounding ourselves with loyal and caring people”, is to first view ourselves as loyal and caring. That is difficult, if we are coming from a position of negative self-perception. The people, who match our self perception, will often be drawn to us. Yes, It really does make sense.

Often, engagement with people on the forum is neutral and light, as in the social side, and can be nurturing supportive, encouraging, etc....... It can, I believe, be a very strong contribution to feeling good about ourselves, sharing information about material and resources that we can use to improve our positions. That certainly seems to me to be worthwhile activity. However, it can lead, as in my case, to a reduced level of physical activity, that is not so good. That's something for me to resolve.

Another aspect of the forum, that seems different to me than to others, is the reticence to write messages of more than a line or two, sometimes a little more. I find that responding to someone, in more depth and detail, is far more rewarding and hopefully, of more use to others', with whom I correspond. Sometimes, I joke about “Henry's books”. But this is what I was saying earlier, I find it far easier to put down in one message all the continuous and connected thoughts in one writing. Then if the other person responds, I can reply in a structured and sequential way that helps me as much as, I hope, it is useful for the other person. Here, it doesn't have to be a journal or personal diary, but it can be a meaningful, supportive and structured correspondence, that can also lead to a greater personal awareness, for each of the people corresponding.

Well I hope this “little book” will be interesting and useful to you @oceangirl

With My Very Best Wishes

@HenryX

Hi @Appleblossom

Thank you for the tag and positive wishes.

I find it distracting and difficult to follow various disjointed comments in a chat environment. So have responded today in a way in which I feel much more comfortable.

Hope You are well, despite concerns about elevated feelings.

With My Very Best Wishes

@HenryX

@TAB You're right at least they had jobs . Milo was laying his head on laptop (keyboard)- too hard to type anything with his boofhead on the keyboard. I went and had a remedial massage and got a few groceries at woolies. But home checking messages here. What are you having for dinner? Hopefully something tasty !!

Hi @HenryX

No worries. I wanted to say thank you so much for responding to my more recent message to you. I was not sure what happen last night and I appreciate you explaining why you stepped away last night and made a cup of tea. I'm glad you took care of yourself.

I'm trying to understand more about why I am feeling so tired and you have helped me understand it more. I know anxiety plays a part in feelings of tiredness for sure and perhaps other physical causes too.

Btw I am not too good in a group environment either but I seem to do better in this kind in environment (online forum). But at times its hard to focus on many people at once and to respond to them how I would like to. Partially because of my concentration and I find it quite tiring too.

I have never heard of a fawn response but when I think about it, I think I do remmeber something said last year when I was doing a CBT course. I will go back through and look at the resource links you have mentioned in your response.

My chat with bluebay you mentioned- coping and fear of being judged. I think that is something that I deal with the most frequent. The coping part is my way of dealing with the depression and also me not getting the help I need to. I heard a psychatrist talk about that and it really resonated with me. A good Dr wants their patients to go from a place of suffering to peace.

The comment I made about my GP is that I am finding the relationship difficult atm and I am not making any progress with her. And I am finding it frustrating at times. I was a bit upset with her yesterday because we had a telehealth appointment and she apparently rang but I had no messages on my phone or a miss call. She told me it never rang through on my mobile. I didn't know and waited for a while for her to call and then decided to call the practice.

I explained to the receptionist I had not had a phone call from her and if she was running late. She told me- she had tried to call (few times) but there was no answer. And I explained to her that I had no calls and she checked with her and she told her that she had phoned me a few times but would call me back within the next 30mins. I felt like she had not been honest to me or her receptionsit. When I did speak to her, I feel like she is not really interested. I guess that is a discussion I can have with her. Its hard when you have know someone for quite sometime though.

I had the same opinion about her now as being toxic. At the time when she said this (nobody), I never said anything, I just shut down and bottled everything up. I think that was more of a trauma response. Its something that stays with you. It almost like I feel I have to prove myself to others because of this comment. I'm someone who sees the worth in everyone and treats people with respect and to care about how I may impact others.

Because my memory is not the best, I do recall seeing patterns in her relationships with others. These relationships were work relationships. And I did know the people she had these relationships with and for all accounts they seems like really nice people. One of these people was really nice to me and I remember what she said to me when I went away to university and that she said I was enough. I don't think she had the insight to see the pattern herself. I wondered if she had a narcissist traits too.

Its interesting how she encouraged me to eat, even though she knows that I can't eat much because of my restriction (sleeve surgery). Its hard to understand why she would do this. I have been on a cruise with friends and had no problem with my portion sizes and they were aware of my surgery and were encouraging of me. I think it something that you could analysis and not come up with an answer. I'm just upset with myself.

You made interesting point about your physical activity and your struggle with this- how do you think you could overcome this? Because I am wanting to do more physical activity too, I think it would be good for my wellbeing. Its hard when we spend so much time in front of a computer and have other challenges in our way too. We just have to knock them down.

Thank you for your response again, it has helped me understand more about me and made me feel more comfortable. I have found at times that when people talk even if its just a few words that can be quite profound too. What helps us feel more connected and able to feel more comfortable interacting with others? I think we often think we are the only ones to experience or feel that way and we often shy away from it but when other voice similar it helps us feel more at ease and to understand ourselves more. A friendly smile and kindness goes a long way to helping others feel better about themselves and for them to feel connected and more likely to be kind to others too.

Best wishes to you too @HenryX !!

Hi sis @oceangirl how are you going tonight? Just finished dinner and going to watch a bit of footy. Little A has gone to her dads. It's quiet here now.
I'm so tired. Xxx

Hi my sister @BlueBay

I'm feeling better tonight.

I've just had dinner too- who is playing? Glad you had time with little A today. I am feeling tired too. Remember to have some downtime too.

Brisbane is playing western bulldogs (my team)

I need to calm down I'm screaming at the tv!!! 😂

@oceangirl

What is the score @BlueBay

I might see what is on TV?