World Suicide Prevention Day

Thanks for this post @Former-Member

I am grateful to hear that there is a movement to suppost anything to do with attempting to prevent suicide and I want to know more -

Still - I have no idea if a person determined to end their life can be stopped - and I would like to know if there is.

I saw something on TV earlier this morning about RUOK - and I thought back to my son who was attempting suicide and refused to talk about it - or self-harm - in which he was engaging. I have heard so many people say that self-harm can be a cry for help - but in his case if that was a cry for help from me it was not possible to help because he refused to talk about it

If someone does want to talk about it - whatever "it" is - then of course we can listen - I would have been glad to listen. To anyone. I agree that many people need to unload their feelings and sort themselves out and just having someone listen is a great start - and with or without suggestions etc then they can be on a road to recovery however long it takes.

But when a person won't - what then - what can we do or say or even be - for them?

The last time I saw my son after he returned to Juvenile Detention after being on the run for over three weeks was hardly helpful in getting him out of detention which is what he wanted. However this couldn't happen. I had to tell him the truth - that I had warned him this day would come and he had broken the law and he had to comply with the magistrate's orders to learn to behave like a resposible citizen

It's tough love and people need that too - I get it - I understand the truth can be a hard to swallow

What if a person can't or won't manage their lives within the pararmeters of our society what then. If that person sees suicide as their only way out of their pain then how can they move forward. A person has to listen to suggestions etc and if they won't and suicide is their choice - what then?

I really want to know - the world might be a better place to have all those unhappy people here - but do they or can they ever feel that the world is a better place for them

I sincerely need to know this because as much as I would like to be able to help people with suicide ideation I can't. I don't know enough

Thanks though

Dec

Hi @Former-Member @Owlunar Thank you very much for posting this blog and making people aware of this very important day and the issue it represents. It is very much appreciated from someone that has had experience with suicide in many different ways.

In relation to your questions, I have some points/areas I think need answered which are:

- Why do medical and health officials think that certain mental illnesses such as BPD and schizophrenia are linked to suicide in some way and that this will happen to these members in the community? This is especially true with BPD. I think there needs to be more awareness or training in relation to this as not all people with these conditions have suicidal thoughts or beliefs.

- Why does the media shun away from talking about suicide or mentioning it for what it is - a cry for help? It's like suicide and it's connetations are something that's undesirable in the media and that maybe people in the community will get ideas if it is spoken about and therefore, it's ignored. It's also not a nice political point so maybe there's something related there in the eyes of politicians and voters which need to be addressed.

- How can people and individuals in all parts of the community reach out to different groups in the community such as different cultural and religious backgrounds and make them aware that it's okay to reach out for help if someone in their community is suicidal? Does there need to be specific training to accommodate these groups or maybe organisations that can be of assistance?

@Owlunar I agree with you that it's hard to help someone if they don't tell you that they are suicidal and this is an issue that needs to be looked into. I can't offer an answer to this but I would like someone such as a research organisation or body to explore this issue.

Judi9877

Putting my big girl pants on for this one 😳

From my personal experiences, my suicide attempts have been when I couldn't see a way out, I couldn't find a reason to live and the huge emotions about feeling like a burden were overwhelming. I'm someone who has tried and stayed alive by medical intervention a few times. I was also very much out of control during many attempts.

How do I feel about it all now? I find myself going down the same rabbit holes frequently. I'm more able to get through the suicidal urges now. Those urges are still almost weekly, although the intensity and duration of them has decreased a bit. Sometimes I still get caught up in them in a big way and need extra help to navigate them. It's been a few years since my last attempt. I've accepted that suicidal urges or ideation will be part of me for a long time to come. Mostly I see them more as something I need to be aware of and then do the self care things that don't escalate them. I guess I treat them more as a curiosity without buying into those thoughts and urges.....but as I mentioned sometimes I flounder with this part too. A prn medication helps a bit during these times.

I think the reasons for attempting (whether or not completing) suicide is complex. My thoughts about stigma and fear around is that nobody knows exactly what is going on in someone's brain when it happens. I personally never wanted anyone to feel like they could have prevented it. I think as @Owlunar said that it's hard to know or to help unless someone has reached out. I guess the best thing is to reach people before they first try if possible. Having said that on my first attempt I had support but couldn't cope with my situation or see a way out at that point. I personally don't ever want others to feel responsible or guilt for what they might have been able to do if they'd known.

To put stereotypes around why people attempt I don't think is helpful. Stereotyping feels like stigma. I think everyone who goes through this, experience it in their own way. There may be some similarities and data that formulate stereotypes but ultimately I feel that it's an individual's choice. Where data and patterns are more helpful is in finding ways to prevent suicide and attempts and put in place effective systems to address the persons individual situations as they arise. For me, the lead up to my attempt was littered with warning signs but I couldn't access the help I needed at the time. My therapist and GP knew but struggled to access the next level of care and support at the time. I'm hoping that this part of suicide prevention is being more comprehensively supported.

@Judi9877 I think that the info around BPD and other mh illnesses of being more likely to attempt suicide is statistically based. In a hperthetical scenario, because I'm not sure of current statistics, let's say 10% of people with BPD attempt or suicide that is 1 in 10 who do it's but still 9 in 10 that dont. I think that number is still way too high when you consider how many people have BPD. It's also a much higher comparative number to those without it. I do also understand that it adds to the stigma of BPD as well and misunderstandings. I take your point and think that maybe it's still very much about awareness and education so that mh diagnosis doesn't stigmatise the individual traits within that diagnosis that you may or may not have.

Well that's a very long opinionated rant! It wasn't my intention and I hope there are some helpful parts along with the self indulged rant. Ask me tomorrow and I could have a completely different answer 😳:face_with_rolling_eyes:😜😊

Hi @Teej

Thanks for this post - I don't see it as an opinionated rant at all but rather extremely informative and it helps me see inside the thought process of a person with suicide ideation. That is a good thing

One of the best things I read here is

It's been a few years since my last attempt. I've accepted that suicidal urges or ideation will be part of me for a long time to come. Mostly I see them more as something I need to be aware of and then do the self care things that don't escalate them.

To me this shows increasing maturity - you have accepted that you have these ruges and that they are part of you - something you are learning to live with and using self-care techniques

It shows excellent insight and gives me something to go on with in the searching for "reasons" for my son's short journey here - he wasn't old enough - mature enough - to accept the status quo - that takes time certainly and obviously - also -

Great thoughts

Dec

Thanks @Owlunar .💜 It's still a work in progress.

I'm glad it helped you process some of your questions. Adolescent suicide I think is so much more complex, possibly because as you noted there is still much the brain is learning and not developed yet. I think adolescent impulse control might play a role as well because of the developmental delay in this part of the brain, but this is my speculation and I'm not wanting to stereotype that either.

Perhaps it's really just about learning from each other to understand everyone's experiences are different. 💜😊

Thank you @Owlunar For this incredibly transparent and vulnerable story you've shared from your experience. Wow what an incredible post to read over, it sounds like this is something you've sat with for a while and had a lot of hands on experience with alongside your son.

What if a person can't or won't manage their lives within the pararmeters of our society what then. If that person sees suicide as their only way out of their pain then how can they move forward. A person has to listen to suggestions etc and if they won't and suicide is their choice - what then?

This is a really important question. I guess you've really higlighted something when you noted suicide is ultimately a choice. An individual's choice - you are right that sometimes there is no amount of intervention that can prevent this I suppose our hope is that we can sit with a person long enough, at least beside them, that they will start to see a place for themself in the world. It is not always an easy feat, and I believe it requires a whole community - not just individuals to work in unison. Thank you for sharing and connecting on this thread @Owlunar Always appreciate the insight.

Lots of incredible questions and challenging notions @Judi9877 thank you very much for this post. I am keen to see the community reflecting on some of those curiosities with you. Your note about BPD - -Why do medical and health officials think that certain mental illnesses such as BPD and schizophrenia are linked to suicide in some way and that this will happen to these members in the community? This is especially true with BPD. I think there needs to be more awareness or training in relation to this as not all people with these conditions have suicidal thoughts or beliefs.


Agreed. There needs to be much more training and awareness for both the community and practitioners about Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizophrenia and I can see that change is initially happening slowly...then hopefully all at once. Many people living with BPD and Schizophrenia are in no way suicidal I have seen this first hand as well . I think it's also important to differentiate between thoughts of suicide and intent to suicide. Neither deserves stigma, but I think often people have a very adverse reaction to those living with mental health issues who disclose they've thought about it. It's sitting in that discomfort, actively listening and refraining from generalising. Everyone is a unique human regardless of diagnosis Thank you so much @Judi9877 great post

To put stereotypes around why people attempt I don't think is helpful. Stereotyping feels like stigma. I think everyone who goes through this, experience it in their own way. There may be some similarities and data that formulate stereotypes but ultimately I feel that it's an individual's choice. Where data and patterns are more helpful is in finding ways to prevent suicide and attempts and put in place effective systems to address the persons individual situations as they arise. For me, the lead up to my attempt was littered with warning signs but I couldn't access the help I needed at the time. My therapist and GP knew but struggled to access the next level of care and support at the time. I'm hoping that this part of suicide prevention is being more comprehensively supported.

Thank you so much for sharing your journey and experience of suicide attempts and we are so glad you're here to share this incredibly powerful insight On your above reflection I agree x💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 Thank you @Teej for your words!

When I first read this post, I thought Oh No he (my brother) did it on purpose, on that day, but there were many other real life reasons and triggers, and he completed it 8 years before the prevention day became a thing.

Thank you for sharing. @Owlunar and @Teej

I think sometimes they/we really do not know how to talk about it, or to bring it to the surface. I almost divided that part off from myself to function. I did not know how to talk about myself. I could not admit that I eventually also had those feelings and urges like my siblings, and the first time I gave utterance, I almost shouted it at a nice girl in a nice office right next where I used to work.

Before that the closest I gave an indication ( though my children tell me they were always afraid I would do it) was that I told a gp that I had bought an item and it was in my car. She did not respond within the session, but came out with me to my car and asked me to hand it to her, I was shocked, then realised she took me seriously, so I did. Then she brought me back inside and I sat in deep trauma in waiting room just rocking. It felt like my deepest secret dragged from me. The gp had the decency to focus on my other health issues and put together the DSP application without making a big deal about MH diagnosis. It was another couple of years before that doctor organised my DSP, and the time I shouted it, was not intentional, I was asked in the DSP interview, and it just roared out of me. I had been clamping down on it ( my suicidality) because of the children for about 20 years before that day. It shocked me as much as the girl doing the pre-grant interview.

Yes @Judi9877 Many people have different MH diagnosis and do not feel suicidal.

I am not sure that the K10 ... is all that good. It feels like a legal clause rather than a therapuetic one, and people could dissociate just to answer it and get out of surgery.

There are so many aspects and angles, cos we are all different.

This part of your post struck me the most @Judi9877 : Why does the media shun away from talking about suicide or mentioning it for what it is - a cry for help?

With respect - to state it is simply and always a cry for help is in my opinion a dangerous and untrue statement. Not everyone that has SI or attempts suicide is wanting help - sometimes it is simply what it is - the desire, the need, the want to end one's life. I can honestly say that every attempt I have made - although unsuccessful - was 100% because I did not want to live this life anymore. For me, it was not about others and no amount of talking or support would have changed my mind at the time. When one is in that deep darkness and everything in life seems insummountable often ending it feels like the only option. From a personal point of view - no amount of talking, counselling, or intervention from others had any effect when I made the decision to end my life - it was planned, calculated and what I wanted. I did not tell anyone nor did I present as being in danger - quite the opposite infact in most cases - was lucid, aware and very much putting on the 'coping' mask so I would not be stopped. The question may now be asked 'but aren't you glad now that you weren't successful' and honestly the answer would be NO. That does not mean I am in the same place as I once was nor that I don't value what I do have now but there are many, many days that being alive is so painful that I simply cannot cope. I am nowhere near the place I was all those times I attempted suicide but if I was not still here then I would also not be feeling the constant pain and struglgling each day to get through. Presently I am not in a very good place and those thoughts enter my mind more than they should but considering suicide is only a passing thought. My life is very different now than it was but that does not mean it is any easier ...and working every day to keep those thoughts and desires at bay is very much a constant and difficult struggle. I still wish so often that I would sleep and not wake up and whilst I know there would be people that would 'miss me' I also know my pain would be over. I know that many would say 'think of others and the effect that your death would have on them' but quite honestly if you are living for others then you are not living for yourself and that is a very sad, lonely and difficult place to be. It may seem selfish to some to be thinking about oneself but I believe the choice also needs to be ours - and if the world we are living in is not one we want to be in, if the pain is too great and we do not want to keep enduring it, if we are simply existing and not 'living' then I believe sometimes the ultimate end is what is best for us. I know so many people that have attempted suicide and lived through it are grateful that they were not successful and go on to live a much better and fuller life - but I for one am not one of them. This does not mean that there is not a way forward for others - in-fact quite the opposite - with help, support, early intervention and hope going forward many can recover from these difficult times and find that life worth living. This topic does need to be much wider discussed and all sides heard however to recognise what a complicated topic it is. SI and suicide are not always merely 'a cry for help' - it is often much deeper and much more complicated than that - and I believe only when that depth of understanding can come from all sides can we truly begin to reach an understanding and insight into the extensive breadth and depth of the issue.