Tragedy QLD family

Hearing far too much tragedy lately @Molliex 😢

It's really difficult to insulate yourself @Zoe7 from the news 24/7, and even if you can at home its hard to out in the world on public transport and in conversations with other people. I did hear about it and then read a couple of news articles, when you have been raised in family violence it is like a moth to a flame when a story like that breaks and you can't help but get involved. It took the wind out of me and my sibs, there's just no words for that, it makes me so angry in lots of different ways.

And what's so sad is how obvious all the signs were that he was abusive and controlling. She referred to her parents being 'completely normal' so his personality traits and behaviour were all new to her.

I think the ABC's and Guardians articles were really good about the 'monster myth', and I could really relate to that. If we dismiss it as simply and mad man or mental illness, this has a tendency to end the conversation abruptly and also the action of implementing change. As soon as you say, well he was just a minority psycho, it doesn't examine him, the man, and also how regular his life was, and the impact of his social status on people around him turning the other way.

People think that abusive men and women are encrazed and %100 psycho with %0 personal insight, but their personality's are much more nuanced than that, and it is false to believe that they are so off the scale, that they don't even realise what they are doing. What is really chilling is that it is not uncommon for an abusive person to refer to themselves as a 'monster', or they may sugar coat it a little and say stuff like, "I am no angel", or, "I am not perfect". This reels people in and keeps their friends and family sympathetic to their outbursts or the damage they have done. They think, "ohhh poor person, they didn't mean it, see, they know it was bad, they won't do it again".

But there's a difference between episodic states and personality traits, and as one of the articles says its the repeated behaviour that are red flags, such as repeated cheating that could be revenge cheating, repeated online stalking and breaking their privacy with total disregard for the other person, jealousy and manipulation. My sib was telling me that she was looking at the BB website a few times and how scary some of the posts were. Someone had hooked up a camera to catch their partner cheating and stuff like that. I would be happy to forgo some online privacy for the greater good and I think that stuff like that should be followed up by the police and the state of federal police should monitor forums like that. Maybe the new metadata laws will change that, I don't know, I think that social media could do more to help family violence cases from escalating.

Social media does give a platform for abusive people like Baxter to manage their image and portray themselves a certain way, and to also play the victim, torn away from his children, sad and lonely.

There's so many issues that are pertinent that I could go on and on and on about, and I think that we do need to talk about the really difficult stuff that no-one wants to admit, but seems to have such a huge impact on the policing and law enforcement sectors such as people that do lie about family and sexual violence.

This is why I get so so so angry when people do that, because it is a small minority but it appears to have an enormous impact on how women/men are perceived and treated. There has to be consequences or interventions for people that lie, because they set back the progress 10 or 20 years. It is just so infuriating and I have no idea how on earth we tackle that.

Obviously being LGBTI myself I worry that it does increase the invisibility of same sex violence and abuse, because women are just as capable as men to abuse and male on male abuse happens too.

But like with the #Me Too movement I have been very disappointed with the amount of men that have not stepped forward and spoken up about the violence inflicted upon them. There were the guys with the Kevin Spacey cases but other than that I can't think of any men that have come forward to broaden the conversation and be allies for people like Hannah Clarke and her children.

I just keep thinking about her poor parents, imagine being her parents, how they can survive this is just unimaginable. That amount of pain and grief would put anyone in an early grave, I think I would die of a broken heart if that was my sibling and nieces and nephew, which is actually physiologically possible. The poor family, it is horrific beyond words.

Corny

Hope you are well @Maggie I haven't seen you around much, but big hugs to you

https://twitter.com/WoofWoof_TV/status/1207743279812530177

Corny

Thanks @Corny . Recent personal events are taking their toll I think. So much related to this topic. Abusive childhood sets us up for the inevitable chess game.

Take care @Corny . 💜💜💜💜

@Molliex @Maggie @BlueBay

@BlueBay Not your post that was triggering BB - but the incident itself

@Corny wiell need to come back to reply to you - so much in your post to discuss but not in the roght hesdspace just at the moment to do so. Thank you for such a wonderful reply post though

Its a very dark topic, and not something that you can visit every day, it is too triggering and re-traumatising @Maggie @Zoe7 hope you get some peaceful moments this weekend.

Corny

Yes @Corny @Zoe7 @Maggie @BlueBay @Molliex ... So tragic .. leaving us feeling very sad, very triggered.

It also emphasises our extreme vulnerability. And the horrible thing about the DV situation ... I just dont see any way you can prevent such things. We get warned of the dangers of escaping these situations. I know my psych has warned me numerous times about possible repercussions of leaving. That much planning is needed. But at the end of the day, knowing all that, does not protect us.

I just dont know what more can be done. Your post @Corny contained so much thought provoking content.

I suppose, at least an incident such as this has brought the whole DV and family violence issue starkly into the open. I only hope something good may come of this tragedy and resulting prominence.

I know many of you are suffering from this story, as am I .. please do lots of self care and stay safe.

Sherry 💔

Just been feeling bad about my quite pessimistic post this morning ... re that very little can be really done about this sort of situation. I still feel that way, just thought my pessimism needed a better explanation.

The way I see it, this type of thing will continue to go on. Hopefully not such an extreme incident as this latest one, or something like the Rosie Batty incident a few years back.

The reason I say that is because of our system of law ... its all about protecting the guilty. Unfortunately the innocent party are the ones who continue to suffer. People are presumed innocent (rape, DV, etc) until or unless proven otherwise.

The law is a broken and unfair system in so many ways. Perhaps made worse by an unfortunate few who make false accusations.

Sherry 😟

Don't beat yourself up @Former-Member you're a wonderful person and lots of people on here would share your feelings around the inadequacies of the legal system, and also the fact that in the community, generally speaking, people do not intervene, and stopping these heinous crimes is incredibly difficult.

I don't know why the small minority that do lie about violence have such a powerful impact on the opinions and beliefs of law enforcement and police etc.....it just seems to stick for some reason. It's strange. I guess there is always a small percentage of people out there in any system that manipulate it, the legal system, the tax system, the welfare system, the education system, and they play on biases and generalisations to their advantage....but for whatever reason, all the focus seems to be on them, and not on the victims and the honest, genuine people.

I can't remember exactly how they wrote about it, but in one of the articles I read it was saying how the abusive person "changes the terms" or "changes the focus" or something like that, and this switches the emotions of the victim to sympathy and feeling bad for exerting boundaries. It said that she spoke to him on the phone the night before and he was crying, and this reels her back in, but it also makes others believe that he isn't the typical 'monster' because he is experiencing volatile mental health at the present time. My father was SH'ing and really, what chance did we ever have in people believing that our household needed investigation for DV when he was presenting that way.....its very rare that you meet a nurse or social worker that questions all of these red flags and possible clues to DV.

The reality is unless you stayed with your boyfriend or girlfriend from your teens, everyone experiences rejection, heart break and relationship break down, but not everyone reacts like he did. It also said that if she didn't have sex with him every night that he would give her the silent treatment for days.....it's just uncanny how similar theses situations are and all the common behaviours that they exhibit, and yet these patterns haven't been given a name that can be medically monitored or treated in some way, they wouldn't be considered dangerous or 'unwell', in the same way someone with DSM mental illness would be.......but I agree its extremely difficult and heartbreaking that this has occurred, and addressing the complexity via one government agency is not realistic.

It does feel hopeless some days, and you're not a bad person for feeling that. I haven't seen much dramatic change since I was a small child, all the same dynamics are flourishing in the community and people are looking the other way.

Corny

@Corny I had hope years ago that the White Ribbon initiative would lead to widespread change in our society but as with all such initiatives the government supported it for a short time and then it got lost amongst all other 'causes'. The same can be said about the heartbreaking story of Rosie Batty and her son Luke. The spotlight was on her for her unwavering campaigning for a stop to DV but with all things of this nature once she withdrew from actively campaigning the issues died down with her. Not enough government funding and awareness is put into such issues - it is often put in the 'too hard' basket as are other social issues ...and it is a social issue. The statistics shown the very real and common freuency that DV occurs in our society yet funding does not reflect the need for adequate services to both help and prevent it occurring. A larhe part of that is the lenient or non-existent punishment in our judicial system for the perpetrstors - many of whom go on to inflict further harm afterwards. We know that a conviction/sentence is often no deterrent or 'fix' for many perpetrators and that they need a lot of re-learning, counselling and ongoing rehabilitation if there is a chance for them to change their own behaviour. This is of course not the case with those that do not think they have done anything wrong and refuse to accept their role in abuse. How then do we resch those people - that is the big ongoing question that no-one seems to have an answer for at present.

I believe that anyone that has an AVO out against them or have perpetrated these crimes do not have the same right to privacy or right to voice their own side without careful monitoring. That could mean that these people should be monitored so the police are aware of them even getting close to those the AVO is from or those that they have perpetrated a crime against in the past. The safety of the victim seems to be secondary in our society to the rights of the perpetrator and untiul that is reversed sadly these crimes will continue.

I also agree that social media allows for one 'face' of a person to be presented and the reality of the situation is often hidden well behind closed doors. People only show what they want others to see and that can be manipulating - and in some cases allow the sympathy of others to be place with the perpetrator rather than the victim. This is definitely one area that is more than difficult to 'police' and I certainly do not have any answers on how we could tackle that.

The powers of the police in all this is also restricted. Unless there is a visible crime being committed their hands are also tied. This is where we need increasing interjection however - I feel strongly that women (and men) should be believed as the first course of action and intervention attended to immediately then the 'bones' of the complaint or issue worked out.

Having worked in DV and experienced it first hand previously I am very aware of how difficult it is to leave such a relationships and also the complexity of talking about it, reporting it and the 'hoops' that need to be jumped through to get any ongoing support. DV services themselves are stretched to the limit yet the government profess to be concerned but only provide minimal funding to increase that support. Often there is a limited time (and funding) that women can receive that support. That does not in any way reflect the gravity of the situation or the ongoing fear even once a perpetrator has been convicted (if in fact it gets that far).

The reality is that if someone wants to harm another then they will do it without measures to keep them away ...ankle monitoring, locking up those that breach an AVO (and not just overnight but for a defined length of time), curfews, constant police/welfare checkins ...to name a few - should be mandatory in such cases. Unfortunately that all will not stop every crime but it could reduce the frequency and pervasiveness of it in our society. Guilty until proved innocent in these cases should be the norm rather than the other way around - but that will also need a change of attitude from the wider society, an ongoing campaign to keep DV in the spotlight and adequate funding to support those in DV situations to leave and be kept safe - then maybe we can see a move away from the fear and isolation for those in a DV situation and hope that they will be kept safe and supported.