Serious? Complex? Severe?

Hi @Appleblossom

there are many people that think that we are both aggravating and creating mental illness simply by the use of our words and ideology.

It is interesting to note that Finland, that once had the highest rate of schizophrenia and suicides in the world, has deviced a method, which they call Open DIalogue, that is very successful in treating a first time psychotic episode in young people.

They continue to use this method with great success. Read about the Open Dialogue Method of Finland if you can.

Early interventions seem to work very well. Unfortunately we don't put a lot of money in early intervention for a variety of reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDVhZHJagfQ

Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to add their thoughts to this topic. I've only had a chance to skim through so far, and will go back later for a more in-depth read, but I'm quite blown away by the thoughtful responses. It pretty much mirrors the conversations we've been having internally - it's complex, provocative and there are no easy answers.

@Former-Member asked early on whether Sane needs to differentiate itself from other organisations. Unfortunately in this world of competitive tendering within a constantly evolving mental health strategy, we are mindful of not being seen as simply replicating other services. Or having an aim so generic that it's hard to achieve or measure the impact we've made.

One of our strengths, particularly from a Help Centre perspective, is the ability to work at the more complex/serious end of the mental illness perspective. This is also reflected in the Forums where we have mental health professionals moderating 24x7 to ensure support and safety. Real people rather than algorithms.

But we are certainly not seeking to deter people who do not identify as being at this end and, in reality, we provide services across the spectrum.

As a few of you narrowed in on, the challenge then becomes to find terminology that meaningfully describes our service for consumers, funders and the MH sector. Not easy.

For the purposes of this thread, it's been fantastic to tap into your individual responses to these terms and to better understand whether they would influence you in accessing services. Even without any clear consensus it's incredibly useful.

Thank you again.

QUOTE @Former-Member wrote: "But we are certainly not seeking to deter who do not identify at being at this end (severe, serious, complex)" END QUOTE

For people not to be deterred SANE would need to use terminology that would be inclusive for all mental health issues that sufferers seek support for. The above three are exclusive.

QUOTE @Former-Member wrote: "and in reality, we provide services across the spectrum" END QUOTE

Which has been a wonderful support for all. But we are under the impression that is about to change with the focus being on severe, serious and complex MI. For the reality to remain that SANE provides services across the spectrum that would have to be adequately described in SANES newly sought terminology to "market/inform consumers, funders and the MH sector, otherwise these three areas wouLd view SANE as primarily a support group for severe long term suffers only - viewing that as leaving behind other sufferers of mental distress who are at risk of taking their lives. And in my humble opinion rather than attract support/funding - SANE would "lose it" which is something no one here wishes to see.

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@Sehnsucht wrote:
@Kurra, I do agree though.

The question was asked before, but not answered. Why are SANE differentiating?
Blueboard was beyond blue, yes?
And a number of other boards were streamlined here?

So those that aren't complex or chronic, but would still relate to experiences here, where do they go??

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Hi @Sehnsucht - that is a good question, where do people who were streamlined here that are not fitting in the "complex mental illness" label/category go? I came here from blue board (it wasn't beyond blue, that's another forum) and am not sure this site is for me anymore. Such a shame as it was very supportive and I was committed to giving support. Although blueboard is a ghost board now it's closing - I think it fair to inform others there that SANE is a foru. For complex mental illness sufferers (which I noted in donation ad has already been decided on).

I may wonder over to Beyond Blue - not sure yet. I have suffered psychosis, bi-polar, major depression, trauma in the past and mostly overcame - felt I had something to offer here as a support. But in honesty don't feel I am in the right place now. Will wait and see.

Just to confirm where this thread started, we're simply canvassing opinions at this point. Which is why we're appreciative that so many have generously shared their perspectives. It will help us make the best possible choice in the end.

@Former-Member, you are demonstrating the power of words and it's a good reminder for us. I hope this consultation process doesn't undermine your experience in the Forum. We have tried to help Blueboarders find a new home and we have been very grateful to see so many of you become part of our community. You all have a tremendous amount to offer and I hope you receive back some measure of what you give.

No matter what descriptors are eventually chosen, and this thread is certainly an encouragement to be as inclusive as possible, it is our hope and intention for this vibrant supportive community to continue to thrive. It will continue to be welcoming to all new members and content will continue to be primarily driven by the members themselves. I hope you'll be a part of it @Former-Member.

We will take your thoughts on board and proceed with caution. Thank you for your responses.

Thank you @Former-Member for your thoughtful, prompt reply and kind words. It is very much genuinely appreciated. Please know that I highly value this forum and yourself and the motivation for my posts is devoid of self interest being born out of genuine concern that all sufferers of mental health problems receive vital support saving more lives.

This forum is welcoming to all new members - I found this and was truly happy with how I have been received and treated. That is not my concern. My concern is on the new proposed terminology that sends a powerful message of exclusion to other mental health sufferers whom don't fit into the categories nominated (serious, severe, complex) and will undoubtedly be deterred from reaching out for support here on SANE they don't belong here as a direct result.

To further emphasis my point here that a huge proportion of the community will be disadvantaged as a result, I quote the then Minister for Health Mr Peter Dutton at the launch of SANE (27 th Aug, 2014 - health.gov.au); whom stated "that half of the Australian population will develop a mental health illness at some stage of their lives, and out of this group 46% of people struggling with mental issues at risk will "not seek support or help of any sort due to stigma"

* that is 46% of half a million people with undiagnosed mental illness that would not fit under the proposed category of "serious, severe or complex" and be left out (plus the rest)

*that is 46% of half a million Australians struggling mentally that would be deterred from reaching out on SANE believing they are in the wrong place

*

.please excuse the grammar as my edit button function is not working - so hopefully you will all get the drift. The post keeps freezing on me and its on SANES end. Would appreciate assistance here.

(Continuation from last post as my computer freezes - apologies)

Cont:-

* that is 46 % of half a million of Australians in the early stages of Mi that are deterred from receiving vital support that can prevent complex mental illness from developing and could of prevent subsequent suicides.

Mr Dutton went on to state this was the focus of SANE to prevent the demise of mental health for the 46% as their services and focus was on supporting all sufferers of mental health problems and their families/carers. Changing SANES terminology now that sends the powerful message of exclusion rather than inclusion of all sufferers could "detract from this very focus and purpose" disadvantage a majority of those developing mental plus those not falling into the categories.

i noted that no final decision was made (I stand confused as under the support us icon button and SANE motto it states "to support Australians effected by "complex mental Illnesses"). But given Suzanne stated no final decision was taken and all would take my thoughts and points on boards I graciously implore your goods selves to consider Cha going the nominated terminology to terminology that incorporates and attracts all that struggle with mental problems - language that invites all to reach out feeling included and that they belong. This would be in reality the most positive impact in reducing the nation's current suicide epidemic leaving no one behind.

Thank you for your consideration - KInd regards OTE

Hi Suzanne, I get told I am a complex patient which lately seems to get me locked out of services. December 2015, hearing about the new services in my area sent a self referral in to them for Partners In Recovery and when a assistant called me she tried to talk me out of being on the list because it's to long, I said I would be willing to wait, then last week I received a letter to say they couldn't get me so they will take me off the list. Anyway to cut a long story short, I sent the referral because I am ready to learn to accept my diagnosis and connect with others which is what I thought the new program would offer. So saying complex or other names like severe etc? I don't think what I was asking for was complicated or complex? What I have noticed today since I joined, is some openly refer to their diagnosis such as: Bipolar, Anxiety, Clinical Depression etc, using real terms, or diagnosis keeps it real and not vague where in my experience non sufferers can understand. It's strange but a localPsycologist sent my referral from my GP to another therapist in the area because I was complex and that therapist sent the referral back to my GP saying the same. I look on the Internet + asked who could see me on a mental health plan and the man who took my case is in a posh suburb, 35 kms away, but that's ok, I am happy seeing him and feeling accepted. So Suzanne, putting labels are difficult and the worst one is uncooperative when we want to ask questions about our care. What I have found the hardest to find in mental health recovery, is a place where communication about mine and others experience with our illness-diagnosis can be honestly discussed and learnt from in a supported environment. Where questions can be asked and honest answers given. Because it's hard to understand my future, can I get better, who can I talk to, is there hope? Can I learn what I need to do to stay well? In the past I have looked to USA websites on mental health, because Australians from my Psyciatrist, community organisations don't seem to want to answer my questions, except say, don't worry, it's complicated, complex or that's not my role. You tube has been good for finding education online, podcasts & some ted talks. So, I hope to find by joining Sane is the forum discussions like I have with the different levels of support I have noticed and I would like some educational group forums either online live, or podcasts, or you tube. I have found talking on FB& social media has given me confidence to bridge isolation, stigma that mental health has in the community. I have also found when I joined a local art therapy group I felt I was being treated as a child because we were asked to pick pics out of magazines and copy them mad colour them in, some clients were not encouraged to join in or assisted it was sad. So maybe say, diagnosed mental illness as a group or the illness name such as Bipolar, Unipolar, Clinical Depression, Anxiety & Panic Disorder or GAD etc. For future strategy I would like to see: A bridge where people with a mental illness can communicate and find advice, compassion and understanding about their illness in a friendly and honest forum online. The information can be through social media like: Sane Chat Forum, You Tube and Podcasts which assists them with their recovery from mental illness by overcoming the isolation by being able to talk with others who understand, especially when it's hard to leave your home.🤔🌻🤗

Hi, I am new today and I left my reply as well to labels such as complex etc. I have had the opposite difficulty where being labelled complex etc has locked me out of services, see my reply to Suzanne. Perhaps the terminology can be kept to either sufferers of mental illness! Regardless of length of illness, or if a person is inquiring about their thinking they may have, because these forums are needed to communication and bridge our fears and isolation. It helps to ask advice as I did today and talk about my experience and hear others as well. It was refreshing to me to see others referring honestly about their illness, so you are right saying both diagnosed and undiagnosed people can enquire about their illness, because it's about helping each other and it's good I have noticed there is experienced posters, as well as mediators which helps us newbys feel safe to share there's structure to keep out the trolls, keeping it real. Thanks so much for caring and sharing🤗🌻

Hi, I am new today and I left my reply as well to labels such as complex etc. I have had the opposite difficulty where being labelled complex etc has locked me out of services, see my reply to Suzanne. Perhaps the terminology can be kept to either sufferers of mental illness! Regardless of length of illness, or if a person is inquiring about their thinking they may have, because these forums are needed to communication and bridge our fears and isolation. It helps to ask advice as I did today and talk about my experience and hear others as well. It was refreshing to me to see others referring honestly about their illness, so you are right saying both diagnosed and undiagnosed people can enquire about their illness, because it's about helping each other and it's good I have noticed there is experienced posters, as well as mediators which helps us Feel safe. Thanks so much.🤗