Marginalisation, it becomes more evident the more I participate in society.

Hi @MoonGal!

I think your differentiation between sharing the stories of how as opposed to the stories of now, is an important one!

I think it's why I came to these forums, as I tried to explain just now to @NikNik. Stories here are moderated well to deliver the now, the lived experience. I'm guessing too there is no numbers or any other push to 'qualify' each of our diagnoses. We are being listened to.

And just by not asking those things, such 'qualifying' posts don't appear. Which is interesting, as in so many other places they will. I mean, in movies alone, you see people arrive to an AA meeting and give their "I am S, and this-is-my-horrifying-tale-that-brought-me-here". And that is it. That is all that's portrayed. I have especially experienced this in support groups to do with eating disorders. The emphasis falls so hard on just how sick you are. Despite that being the last thing medical professionals are wanting to do, encourage competitive scrutiny.

I would like to clarify, that this really is a contextual thing and while I brought up my feelings regarding such things, it is because they relate to my greater life, and I saw this as a safe and productive space to share and work through them. I think these forums and sharing our stories is fantastic, I'm a huge fan of peer support. When done well, that is, and this all seems to be done very well indeed!

@Sehnsucht,

I agree with what you are saying.

Organisations should support, understand and help people with the more "invisible illnesses" to achieve their goals rather then having low "expectations" for them and not discouraging them to drop out, or the other extreme, stating "we've seen your scores and know you can easily achieve it" etc...

There should be a real acknowledgement that people with these illnesses can sometimes have cognitive deficits that can make it much more challenging to achieve what they set out to achieve.

Assistance-in a non-judgmental or embarrassing way-should be provided in classrooms/Uni settings.

The part of the problem is that many doctors themselves are ignorant to the fact that some people diagnosed with mental illnesses can have lasting cognitive deficits.

Its little wonder then that the general public have little awareness/insight when often the doctors don't themselves even.

The public is "fed" a "script" of what mental illness looks like. The "script" goes something like this:

o-Person get mental illness or has an " acute break"'

o-the person "seeks help"

o-the person receives medication,

o-the persons symptoms become manageable due to the medication and,

o-The person now returns back to baseline how they were prior to the acute episode,

o-person is now totally fully functional in all aspects of life unless/until another acute episode happens.

Whats neglected however is that this script is not relatable to many people with mental illnesses or their families. There is no mention in the script that some people retain long-lasting or permanent cognitive deficits-primarily social cognition deficits, memory deficits, difficulties with learning and retaining knowledge etc or that some people illnesses are not episodic with a return to baseline functioning after or that some of their symptoms are not helped with medication or therapies.

There are families that state that every time their loved one has symptoms it takes a part of that person away-permanently.They become a shell of themselves and their personality has been removed and they are left with cognitive loss.

My point is,that if the public-including staff members at Educational Institutes - are not made aware of this and keeps being misinformed that all people's mental Ilness experiences follows the same trajectory,they will remain ignorant to students needs.

Then,even if there were some kind hearted individuals teaching at Unis etc they may never have the opportunity to help as they have not been educated on the full extent of challenges that some students may have.

Btw-I don't think you should feel pressure to share your "story" with people you don't feel comfortable to do so just because some Organisations encourage this.

Often these organisations are very well meaning but their campaigns are not evidence based.

Ie: there is no evidence that people openly sharing their stories,experiences and diagnoses reduces mental health stigma, in fact sometimes it can reinforce stigma.

Or the alternative can sometimes be that it reduces public stigma towards the more socially acceptable (aka less embarrassing) mental illnesses such as Anxiety and Depression while in turn reinforcing stigma towards the more severe illnesses which can cause more "weird" or embarrassing manifestations (such as bipolar disorder,schizophrenia,Schizoaffective disorder,Autism...)

@Former-Member and @BeeGee, my apologies. Your two posts were the ones I wanted most to read again and think over last weekend, and I completely overlooked them in the end. I shall come back to them this weekend if not sooner. x

Hello dear @Sehnsucht

Absolutely no need to apologise my sweet. I do appreciate your thoughtfulness and graciousness - you are a lovely lady indeed. But there is absolutely no need to feel pressured or obliged to reply to my post as it was just expressing my thoughts on the topic - a one off post, as I have now said all that I felt needed to be said on my behalf and will be leaving it at that. Just treat it as food for thought either accepting or rejecting.

The main thing that matters to me is that "you are okay" - that you are feeling comfortable on this forum. It's your well being that matters to me and if you are in a better place I am happy 🙂 - as to me that's what it is all about.

So please - no need to reply, no pressure. You probably have more than enough on your plate, more than enough to do on the weekend with family etc. But I really do appreciate you thinking of me. Thank you. Sending warm hugs xx

"My further thoughts on this topic are that by asking others to "squash down" their genuine appreciation or polite expression of "thanks", is to ask them to "squash down" their gratitude, compassion or freedom of expression because of another's projection on it. In all honesty I can't adhere to that and I don't believe anyone should feel obliged to do so as whether heartfelt or disingenuous - it is a harmless gesture."

In my experience, while it may not be a harmless gesture, a thank you does, for whatever reason, imply an end to the conversation. So when those with lived experiences share, able people thank as a means to help. As in the thanking itself helps alone, and enough.

In workplaces, this is especially true. Stick a note up on the noticeboard for RUOK? day or any other annual 'awareness' dates, ask for stories to be shared, so that thanks may be given.
Sharing in such an environment is certainly not as empowering as sharing in a forum such as this with peers and empathy.

Just 'being a nice person' doesn't always mean one isn't hurting someone else. Be it their privilege, their ignorance, or other unintended slights.

If our ultimate aim is to help someone, then the goal of helping should supercede the feelings of the person offering help. They offer help, not an exemption from being wrong, or hurt.
Yet we often have this expectation when offering help "I have intentions to hurt, so I am doing right and can not be implicated in wrong".
I've been there myself. A great friend of mine, her mum was dying of cancer. I offered to cook some food, she declined. In case she misunderstood me offering food for wanting to nosey in, I clarified I meant only to drop it at her door. She said we don't eat at home at the moment, I replied 'not a problem, it can be there to give you a rest whenever that is needed, I honestly don't mind'.

She responded, curtly, that no means no, and that I had no business digging into her life.
My initial response? Honestly, was anger, how dare she? I offered help! I wasn't prying!!
I spent a day in tears and venting to my husband, wondered if she was worth having as a friend, how ungrateful. Fine if she didn't want the food, but no need to be rude, I thought.

Thankfully, I sat on these feelings for a number of days, left my friend be, and considered all that had happened.

Eventually, I realised. Wait, is my mum dying?? No. Do I know what helps or doesn't help? No, never been there. Had she said no? Yes, many times. Did it matter that she came across rude? No, tone shouldn't weigh in on a message like that. She was hurt, I had hurt her. Me. I had been prying, not because I intended it, and not because I'd see someone else asking those questions as prying, but because she did. She received that message, and impact was worth more than intent, because my intent was not to have a friendly conversation, ultimately it was to help.


I understand completely that people can't get help without coming forward. But what happens when they do? Do they potentially come across the same counsellor I was referred to first in my teens, that asked questions I couldn't answer (all questions, unreality made definitive decisions impossible, in my mind's dialogue purely existing was lying. Was lying best anyway? Was it all a lie?.... and so on and so forth). Her response, "What do you mean, *shrugs shoulders* 'I don't know'? Do you think I'm stupid? I have been told you are far from stupid, so you must know."

Stigma, in my mind, needs first and foremost to be addressed in the ways we automatically assume must help. Intuition is rarely evident in helping with mental health. We can't rely on it. We can't just have intentions, and run with them.

Helping involves a lot of listening. A lot. Stigma in the wider community manifests in closed conversations. Thank-you campaigns are just one. I tell my story, I am given thanks. They walk away. I am helped, right? Wrong. Not for all, but personally, me beating my own self up ended quite a long time ago. Yes, I came to that with some professional assistance. Most of it was through travelling and engaging in social experience. But I won't discredit the power that sharing has, on this personal level.

On a wider level, there is a conflict. While I agree it would be awful if we deterred people from going to their GP or a trusted person to share their struggle with, so as to get them help, I disagree that such campaigns actually do this. When in a room full of people during such campaigns, it is not a safe space. Stigma still exists. I could lose my job. Friends. HAVE lost jobs, friends. So while it's great that I have self-assurance and turn to professionals as and when I need, I'm not sure that I gained that from sharing itself. I gained that gradually, through meeting new people, widening my networks, finding people that didn't prejudice me.

So I'm hoping there has to be some middle ground. Some way to confront people with this stigma, with their good intentions not necessarily being recieved as such. Is it possible to say I don't have to answer to ignorance, while at the same time encouraging people to safe spaces such as this?

As someone with a lived experience, it seems appropriate that you thank others. This is a different context to that which I speak of, the wider community. Those people that discriminate. That don't take time to hear me, you.

Oh and thank you @Former-Member for your kind words! The obligation is all mine, you didn't ask it :). I want to think over and address all sides of the argument, as everyday is a school day and beliefs should only be held if they hold up to rigorous scrutiny, and your own understanding of the other side's arguments.

For instance, I did feel when I first posted, that even those with lived experience could stop thanking me, but I have come a little over to your side on that now. Though I think giving reason behind the thanks is better than just a 'thanks', so will personally delivering my gratefulness that way :). Giving a reason takes away the closed feeling of the statement. And for me, makes it feel less like an obligatory to and fro of politeness, and more like a genuine heartfelt statement.
I say that because I shared some of how I felt about all this, to my friends and family recently. I was given a lot of 'thank you'. And it wasn't overthinking or overanalysing, my initial reaction was frustration. Had they heard me? Had they seen how some of it might apply to them? Or at least see how much of an obstacle so many things in life have become for me, simply due to a stigmatised label? I had no idea. I was just thanked. It felt like I had served them when I actually wanted them to serve me better.
Others said "I hear you", which I appreciated, so much.

x

I have no intentions to hurt, therefore I am right.

It makes no sense without the 'no'! Woops.