A question for all

Yes repeated trauma is the most damaging, I agree with that. Yes soe people may never fully recover. But I feel that therapy is always a good thing in PTSD even when the person cannot fully recover. Because speaking to someone is like letting out the steam out of the valve, so to speak, so that the pot does not explode or implode. But yes I agree with you. Nevertheless, no matter how complicated and diverse mental disorders are, if we use the word "illness" then we are saying that we know the precise cause. In mental problems we never do know the precise circumstances.

Some go on about the brain that is affected but I have read a book by Norman Doidge where it is explained that people who endure terrible accidents where they lose a lot of brain tissue are often able to recover as the remaining brain can take on functions that the lost brain used to perform. ON the other hand there are people with cerebral fluid in existence who have littel tissue. So where is the mental illness in those heads that have almost no brain but mostly fluid??

Thank you Margot, yes I understand your point of view. My problem with the illness idea is this: have a look at this article https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-shocks-doctors/ the man of the brain scan suffered with depression and I have a book about him. Where would be the illness in his case? Most of the brain tissue is missing in his head.

Yes, I understand that some people may feel that the word illness best describe how they feel. But is it accurate? And to what extent have they been encouraged or persuaded by our society to use it? To use a word that indicates an illness that may not exist at all because we are dealing with a disorder of mind and brain that can in some cases be rectified or where people can be helped to recover? To me illness sounds permanent and serious. Disorder sounds milder and more hopeful that we may actually help the person.

For example, I know that some people that see the word "Mental Illness" get terribly stressed and the word is also associated with a lot of stigma. They should do research, the experts, about which word is more associated with stigma: "Mental Illness" or "Mental Disorders". I have done a small scale research to find that the latter carries much less stigma.

I like your thinking, Appleblossom, I like the idea of a normal mental experience. You see, many actors, scientists and artists have mental problems; but who is to say that such problems are necessarily unwanted or negative? In my case I have turned my Bipolar symptoms into positive energy that fuels my creativity in many areaa. By so doing I have recovered. The symptoms are still there but I got used to functioning with them and very wellFor some indigenous people those with mental disorder were often special people who often became Shamans.

Stigma is cetainly quite pervasive and some words are more stimatised than others. Social processes shape that stigma and hopefully it will continue to reduce over time.

You're so right that we're still vey much in the early stages of understanding what 'causes' changes in our mental health. In the same way, we're still trying to understand what causes lots of other health related concerns.

You're posing a really interesting question there @theaveragejoe about brain, mind, and body in terms of the location of illness - a question worth thinking about. Ideas of illness do emerge in socially constructed world - as does language.

I'm sure our understanding of mental health will continue to evolve with future research; as will the way we talk about 'lived experience', 'mental disorders', and 'mental illness'. I like your idea about research on different terminology - wouldn't that be great! For now, I tend to think - labels are only useful if you find them helpful and it's important to identify with the language that fits with your worldview and your experience.

Thanks to everyone for such a great discussion!

Hello @theaveragejoe and all other contributors. ..readers @Appleblossom quitly wondering who the experts might be....

A much talked about discussion ......

results vary depending on which scholastic group you talk to...

scientific...which in some instances includes other professions as in some of those in medical fields..

psychology....psychiatry....varaiances here also.....

pharmaceutical....generally one way of thinking..

religious....some rigid ..archaic thinking still present within some areas....some humane responses in others..

the term mental...I despise....has been around for centuries...definitely conjures up stigma..

illness...something wrong with the body...

many years ago...need to google origins body described as having physical side and mental side..

today this has changed little...with all of money spent on research...science...medicine...changing stigma

we are still categorised as being a part of the mental health system

Hospitals are still called mental health hospitals.

I have been diagnosed with chronic depression....have been told has replaced what used to be known as major depression....referring to long term..

For myself I use the term mental unwellness if having to give a name...

I am not mentally ill...I experience periods of my mind being unwell...I am me not any diagnosis...

Depression has been discussed to the nth degree....many theories formed..

For me it is not about all of the above....ie ...what is.....

it is about what is not.......

Nothingness...

Two beautiful documentaries to watch. Here is how Finland looks after their young people with severe mental disorders, inspirational to say the least: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDVhZHJagfQ

And here are the problems with our model of treating people today and I agree with this psychologist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Fi32LbXHA

Only had time to check the new scientist article @theaveragejoe The links in last 2 posts I will get around to, as with the link by @Former-Member but that one is 121 pages!

I kinda get where they are probably going and am totally behind you @theaveragejoe. Great thread.

I am remembering my mother and her distaste of the Mental Hygeine ...

as she called it ... back in the day ....

Hi Appleblossom, one of the interesting things you will find watching the Open Dialogu documentary is that when a patient rings for help they provide help immediately. There is a specialized person that listen attentively and they decide what corse of action to take. But they stay with the person on the phone and if necessary they send someone to their place and this happens in most of the cases.

Here in Australia someone rings for help and one very rarely if ever gets the proper help. Those that answer do not provide adequate advice or support and don't ask me why. My wife suffer with severe Bipolar and a number of times she has rang up for help to find that there really was not help on that line but often a cranky person that cannot cope. Clearly this should change for first contact is important in helping people, reducing suicide and so on.

The only help we find is if we go down our local hospital, sit down for a while, till someone comes to talk to my wife. Our local hospital is great but we cannot have everyone go to the hopsital for advice or to talk to someone and tharapists are not available always when needed on the spot. Fortunately my wife's therapist is good and she can always ring and make an appointment but this is not a luxury that everyone has access to.

Now the Government is thinking of giving money to Lifeline, which in a way is not bad, but to really reduce the suicide rate in Australia we need to help people directly not indirectly. This is not happening. There is a lot that we can learn from Finland and the Finnish people.

Hi @theaveragejoe,

I am sorry to hear you have had some challenging and frustrating experiences with helplines and phone counsellors. We must note however that everyone's experience is very different and unique.

Helplines are there as a support to many people, whether it is to be listened to or offered referrals to services or offering one on one counselling with them in the moment. Sometimes this can be helpful for people and sometimes it is not. It is good that you have identified that your local hospital provides the support that works for you and your wife.

I hope you both keep reaching out.