What is 'normal'?

You are right, there are horror stories and they are not acceptable. I've never been hospitalised for my mental health and this probably gives me a better view of things than some others would have. However, some of these complaints would have to apply to the broader health care system too. Some of the very worst, least compassionate and frankly barbaric experiences I've had have been in the public hospital system for my physical health issues.

I also agree with you that being 'normal' is a questionable value in this country and that aboriginal people are and have been generally the worst treated in Australian society. We are perhaps not that far apart in our views. I just don't want to write off the good contributions made by individuals, despite serious systemic problems.

This is an odd conversation. There are no laws surrounding forced health care excepting for individuals with mental illnesses. If you have been subjected to human rights abuses in any other area of health care you have recourse to the courts. If you have been subjected to human rights abuses by the mental health system you will be lucky to even get a letter of apology and since human rights abuses are built into the mental health system (seclusion, restraints, being deprived of one's liberty in the first place), the mental health system is under no obligation to apologise (unless they 'feel like it') and you certainly will not get any compensation nor a promise that it will never happen again. I'm afraid that people with mental illnesses, like 'normal' people, tend to accept the status quo (that people with mental illnesses have to be locked up) - i did for a long time but i've read a lot of the research on it now and processed what i myself have been through and there is no reason for us to be deprived of human rights at all. Human beings are extraordinarily tough, if necessary and, god willing, can survive a huge amount. the whole notion that the state needs to make us wards at certain times (and in horrible conditions of incarceration, i might add) is wrong. it's really just an assumption that we aren't responsible and can't look after ourselves etc. - this wouldn't be acceptable even if they 'kept us' in humane conditions (such as a nice open farm-like 'holiday camp') but the present system is merely punitive and heavily so - and practices like seclusion and retraints belong in the dark ages and nowhere else. eventually, wards will be open and there will be NO mental health legislation at all - it is the only fair and humane way. people will access mental health treatment happily when it is humane and helpful instead of uncoordinated, punitive and, basically, counter-productive 😞

i'm not saying that there aren't nice, friendly people who are genuinely trying to help working for the mental health system, but what are they doing working for a system that treats people like that? how can they possibly expect to really be able to help anyone given the structure of the system?

ps. one of my new years resolutions has to be to do the washing up regularly - at LEAST once a fortnight 🙂

ps. and when the pulitzer prize photographers come through here i don't want them to find my pizza boxes so i'm going to have to put them out before november, too :0

pps. just joking - a little levity is always good.

An odd conversation between 'oddballs' perhaps? (A little attempt at affectionate levity here too). To get back to it, the way I see it, we are all living and working within a bad system. If everyone with a good intention avoided working within a bad system, there wouldn't be many people working at all I think. In the meantime I will value the partial good of individuals, and agree with you on the overall badness of the system. And hope for better in the future, especially in regards to my own domestic chores!

wow - 'i have a dream' - i've knocked myself out!

the stats are in on mental illnesses anyway - they are caused by trauma. whether or not they have a genetic component is immaterial - you can't 'blame' people for their genes anyway. we just have to 'wait' for rights now (and be active in fighting to get them). we have alread come from ZOOS (and i'm sorry to have to mention this as it shocks and horrifies me and probably anyone who's reading it), to asylums (basically prisons with no release date), and now we have our freedom most of the time. We just need the authorities to WAKE UP to realise that they are keeping people down and needlessly on welfare, at MASSIVE expense to the government. From my reading it is clear that when we have effective early intervention people will be back on their feet within 2-3 years tops and leading normal lives with just a bit of ongoing support. the whole system at present is useless and counter-productive and basically relegates us to welfare (along with stigma and discrimination). as i pointed out before, my career achievements have been recognised as being at the top of their field internationally (3 international awards in prestigious competitions) but the current 'stigma' is stronger than this and i am on welfare and get NO job offers (apart from piddling jobs that i don't really want to do, and wouldn't take anyway, as i have learned that sooner or later, stigma will mean that i will lose, or have to leave the job). ridiculous. frustrating.

i like the sound of my own keyboard, don't i? :0

anyway, i have enjoyed talking to people here today and will continue to do so, especially as my advice seems to be useful and thus it cheers me up to offer it 🙂

Glad it's cheered you up to get out some thoughts via the sonorous keyboard. I got a new one for xmas and it sounds wonderful too.

Thanks for the exchange of viewpoints. Hope we haven't spun this thread off on too much of a tangent, or put others off contributing to the questions @NikNik originally raised:

What is "normal"?

What is a "normal person"?

Is there a such thing as "normal"?

Is being 'normal' a good or bad thing?

Over to everyone else now from me...

Ha! Yes, the whole Australian system is, well, basically, corrupt (and i'm sorry to have to state it)! This culture (the mainstream Australian culture, anyway) values cruelty over kindness and our anti-intellectualism is 'nobbling'. I mean if i wanted to be corrupt and 'smart' about it, i could sue until the cows come home for discrimination of all types - i could be very, very rich! but i'm not going to do that. i'd rather fight to get us some rights, if i can (it's a matter of time before we get rights anyway - the stats are in, as i said, on mental illness - it's caused by trauma - we're not aliens from mars, after all). Sooner or later the governments of the world will figure out that it's a lot cheaper to give us a bit of help and rights so we can lead normal lives than spend a fortune keeping us down and on welfare (ha! i'm 'amused' at the stupidity of it all as i type it). How depressing. I need more pizza 🙂 and chocolate! i know there's chocolate in the fridge somewhere!

I read the other day that 'crazy' weather is the 'new normal' - I suppose we're responsible for that too. Sigh. *kicks can*

ps. yes, i have an ENORMOUS ego, but i try to do good-hearted caring things too, like give good advice, and i think australian intellectual life needs to improve anyway, and i don't shy away from trying to champion that. cheers 🙂

ps. YOU ARE ALL INVITED TO THE PULITZER PRICE AFTER-PARTY!!!! 🙂